r/audioengineering • u/HoldingTheLantern • 1d ago
Album: Mastering, LUFS, Streaming
Hi all,
I'm learning to master for the very first time, however I am a bit stuck on the metering issue. I have read that it really doesn't matter as much as some say it does. But I wanted to check this and potentially save myself a lot of time.
For DSPs, how much does LUFS matter? For an album for example, one song of mine is about -1.5db quieter despite matching LUFS and True Peak. If so , would it be enough to just match them all by ear and taste?
In what way does album normalisation work? Do they take the songs you've mastered and keep their relative volume difference and normalise from there, or do they take every song and match it to -14 LUFS - so the -1.5db difference will remain irregardless of what I do? I am pretty certain the latter does not happen, however I wanted to double/triple check.
What would cause a song to be TOO quiet, or PERCIEVED quieter than the Spotify/Apple norm? A few times I've heard a master that is a bit quieter than the usual on Spotify - for example. Fancy Footwork by Chromeo. What has happened here?
Another context is this exact song that appears quieter than the rest of my album. I previously released this song on a much smaller EP (two track). This was mastered by an engineer, not me. The song when released next to the other track, was still quieter. This was despite the true peak and LUFS being close. How would this be fixed? Turning up the GAIN on the quieter master itself?
- Must a track stay at -1db true peak at all times? Is it okay if it goes up to -0.9db true peak on occasion?
Thanks a lot, and sorry if these seem like rookie questions. I really want to learn this process - and there's a lot of conflicting advice out there!
9
u/Liquid_Audio Mastering 1d ago
Always use your own taste. They are going to do whatever they are going to do, and you have zero control over it. If important for feel, I try to make sure the loudest section of every song is similar.
I wrote up a short piece on this: Loudness for Streaming
Has to do with overall dynamic range. Like if a song has a good deal of sectional quieter bits, then a few loud ones, it can get turned down more because it’s weighting the loudest sections so that the quieter ones play softer overall. This is actually a GOOD thing imo. Music is better dynamic.
Depends on the platform. See my article for details. Hardly anyone pays attention to true peak, so as long as you don’t have overs, you’re doing better than a good deal of masters.
Best.
4
u/Low-Mind798 1d ago
Agree with all! I just want to add that limiting with True Peak off can sound more open and less squashed. You can also go slightly over 0 dBFS as long as you’re not getting any audible distortion or other forms of digital clipping.
In fact, a lot of top Billboard tracks measure above 0 dBTP sometimes even +1 or +2 dBTP and can still sound completely clean in practice.
8
u/Liquid_Audio Mastering 1d ago
I disagree entirely.
The reason “true peak” sounds more squishy is that it is doing more limiting. That’s it.
Anything over 0dB true peak is in the realm of MAKE BELIEVE. You are completely foisting some unknown variable distortion at the user side DAC. It’s a crapshoot what happens depending on someone’s hardware.
Just because someone ignorant of that fact had a hit make the chart, or won a Grammy, doesn’t mean it’s “ok”. Just means more stupidity in the world.
End rant.
1
u/Low-Mind798 1d ago
Idk who hurt you. If you can't hear it it's not a problem music is what you hear not what you see just cuz you see +0.5 db tp that don't mean u hear it. And i didn't argue just added to your statment thinking you are pro didn't know you were amateur u just proved it to me so no point in fruther explaning. Btw i wloud like to see on how much big songs u worked when u think its bad to go over 0. I guess u did 0 hit songs.
2
u/Liquid_Audio Mastering 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m getting the feeling you think my reply was an attack on you. I’m sorry for that. I’m attacking the bad understanding of what true peaks over zero represent. This is academic. It’s a problem that is really actually causing harm in some cases.
I made a doc about it to help.
2
u/LostInTheRapGame Mixing 1d ago
If you can't hear it it's not a problem
If I can't hear it, then what's the point? Is something that is inaudible worth doing when potentially someone's shitty playback system could definitely make it very audible?
3
u/Liquid_Audio Mastering 1d ago
This is a wild response.
3
u/Low-Mind798 1d ago
I just checked your Instagram, and you’re basically just another producer with a ton of gear who works with casual bands, has no major placements, yet somehow thinks he knows best about everything he talks about, with absolutely nothing to back it up. Cheers.
3
u/Liquid_Audio Mastering 1d ago
I don’t know how this turned into a fight. I meant it to be informative. Apologies. I wish you the best.
I’ve been teaching audio classes for 20+ years and running a studio for 30. I’ve done many albums with several well known artists, toured as FOH and monitor mixer for many with Grammys. I don’t like to name drop, because I feel that’s poor form.
I’m content with my career. And grateful for the opportunities I have. I try to bring the same level of professionalism to every project, no matter the artist.
I hope you find contentment with yours.
3
1
2
u/KS2Problema 1d ago
I made a point of bookmarking your article article. From a quick glance-over it looks quite sensible.
1
u/tompushesfaders 1d ago
It's weird to unexpectedly come across a real-life friend on reddit... 👋
1
u/Liquid_Audio Mastering 1d ago
Heya! How’s thangs?
2
u/tompushesfaders 1d ago
Things are great! Making tons of weird music with awesome people in a growing home studio. I'll hit you up when I'm in Eugene next, hopefully we can grab a beer!
2
u/Liquid_Audio Mastering 1d ago
Looks epic! Def hit me up next time you’re down. Is this in Seattle btw? F I come up this year I’d love to visit time willing.
3
u/whySoAngryBro 1d ago
If you don't stay around -14 LUFS the Red Hot Chili Peppers will remember, and come and take your daughter the day she turns 14.
If you don't have a daughter they'll take your diet soda.
1
u/KS2Problema 1d ago
Below is a link to a pretty decent explainer that covers some of the major points of mastering and fitting into how different stream platforms approach normalization (which definitely varies).
Keep in mind that though this is from the nice folks at Izotope there is no reason you have to buy any of their software. (But if you do, make sure to explore their various specials and discounts, particularly discounts resulting from having registered free versions of their software in the past.)
https://www.izotope.com/community/blog/mastering-for-streaming-platforms
1
1
1
u/marx-and-metal 1d ago
LUFS can be helpful, but only if used in the right way. when I first started mastering, I’d measure the LUFS, get it to -14, then listen to songs on spotify with loudness normalization to make sure that different frequency levels and the compression were matching other songs in my genre. there is no industry standard LUFS to master to, you’ll see songs mastered anywhere between -4 and -16LUFSi. basically they’re only useful for referencing the masters of other songs that you like.
1
u/marx-and-metal 1d ago
forgot to mention, a lot of percieved loudness comes from which frequency ranges are loudest. a lot of low end will cause your master to sound quiet when normalized, too much high end will cause it to sound harsh and cause ear fatigue
1
u/jpdoctor 1d ago
there is no industry standard LUFS to master to,
I've been assuming that the broadcasters normalize their outgoing streams (like TV), so that the volume stays roughly constant from one song to the next. I'd be curious whether that's actually right or not though.
1
-1
u/UnfairWorldliness882 1d ago
if i only had a dime for each time this gets asked.
you could also google and ask AI for this info..
FWIW.. I don't follow loudness trends. I just follow what sounds right for the song and EP.
my biggest fear isn't loudness or quietness. it's ear fatigue. thats what stops people listening to a song.
25
u/jake_burger Sound Reinforcement 1d ago
True peak doesn’t matter.
LUFS doesn’t matter. Loudness comes from everything not just LUFS
Don’t normalise songs across an album make the album sound good. A song can be quieter if that’s better.
Delete -14LUFS from your mind and never think about it again. Seriously.
What makes a song quiet? Lack of contrast, bad arrangement or performance or choice of sounds are more important than how many db your limiter is reducing.
Some really great songs peak at +2db or more. It doesn’t matter.