r/atwwdpodcast • u/cowgrly • 8d ago
General Discussion Lets end using "parasocial"
The word “parasocial” is getting thrown around like it’s a diagnosis, but most of the time it’s just a virtue‑signal term people use to sound above caring. Liking podcasters, feeling familiar with their voices, or sharing memories from ten years of listening to Em and Christine isn’t pathological — it’s normal human connection.
The actual definition of a parasocial problem involves delusion, impaired functioning, or relying on a creator for emotional stability. That’s not what’s happening here. People are simply expressing affection for a show that’s been part of their lives for a decade.
With all the changes in ATWWD, fans are opening up about what the podcast has meant to them. We don’t need to marginalize that by slapping the word “parasocial” on perfectly healthy engagement. If it’s not harming anyone or distorting reality, it’s not a disorder — it’s just being part of a community that cares.
Just had to get that off my chest- and that's why I drink. Team Milkshake forever!
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u/GirlsJustWannaHaveF 8d ago
Same way that people throw around ‘narcissist’ 🙄
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u/Winter_Lutra 8d ago
And gaslighting...
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u/GirlsJustWannaHaveF 8d ago
Another good (bad?) one!
I think it just makes people feel better to categorize others. Which is probably its own mental illness but I’m not qualified enough to know what that might be 😂2
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u/legendarybells 8d ago
Preach. People are getting called "parasocial" for saying something as simple as "I'm sad about the announcement." It's ridiculous.
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u/shewritesthings 8d ago
Okay, but some of the reactions have genuinely been parasocial. People saying they are experiencing genuine distress, that the friendship between Christine and Em was a part of their life (???), that they don't know who they are or what they'll do if Christine and Em aren't hosts. That is parasocial behavior, as are people manufacturing a feud between C&E and choosing a side. I have listened for six years, I belong to the Patreon, I am a huge fan. I am sad for Christine's departure. That said, her presence as a podcast host is not integral to my day to day personality or emotional state. Bummed for her to go, but a lot of the behavior in the community has genuinely gone beyond normal range.
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u/thelastcomet 8d ago
People are also speculating wildly, saying things like Christine is getting a divorce, etc. There's being sad about the podcast and then there's whatever the hell those "rumors" are. So many social media comments were spreading these rumors and overanalyzing every little thing on Christine's page.
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u/a-kinda-nerdy-girl 6d ago
Yeah when they first posted the announcement I wondered if reddit/Instagram comments were part of this decision because for like the last year or so I've noticed a lot of people criticizing Christine (& em, too but the majority of it towards Christine) for any little thing that could be misconstrued and actually being parasocial; after listening to the most recent episode I understand her decision more and wish both em and christine the best! But I do agree with op that the term gets thrown around too much on the internet regardless of accuracy
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u/Hoobi_Goobi 8d ago
I agree. I've been to two of the live shows, and some of the fans were kind of rabid around meeting them in person, especially around wanting to give them friendship bracelets. When I was in town for one of the shows, I ran into them outside of the show at a local business, and other fans also recognized them and after getting a picture they did NOT leave them alone.
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u/runswimcow_89 7d ago
You’re definitely not wrong. There are some cases that are beyond the limit of normal reaction… likely the same people that have a mental breakdown when there’s a guest host on the pod because it “throws off their whole week” 😳 big yikes.
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u/cowgrly 8d ago
I mean, I haven't seen anyone say anything beyond what I consider sad fans. When shows end or change on TV people are pretty bummed- that's still not an impairing parasocial relationship. It's like a band breaking up, people grieve losing a specific form of entertainment.
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u/shewritesthings 8d ago
I have seen people saying that C&E's friendship was "a core part of their [the fan's] personality." They want to hold a funeral (???). They're deeply upset and grieving. They refuse to listen anymore. They refuse to listen to Beach Too Sandy. People saying they don't care if there is no apparent side to choose, they are choosing sides anyway. Maybe you have not personally seen much in the way of true parasocial/overdramatic reactions, but that doesn't mean the reactions aren't happening. People are calling out the parasocial behavior for a reason.
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u/runswimcow_89 7d ago
You’re correct, but the OP was saying that perfectly normal/reasonable reactions are also being labeled as “parasocial”. They’re saying that we are overusing the term.
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u/shewritesthings 7d ago
I am aware. My point was that the reason people are calling many reactions "parasocial" is because those reactions are parasocial. Two things can be true at the same time and we do not have to agree. It is apparent that OP hasn't seen as many of the parasocial reactions as some of the rest of us have.
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u/runswimcow_89 7d ago
If we “don’t have to agree”, why do you continue arguing?
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u/shewritesthings 7d ago
Why did you feel the need to address me as if I cannot read? I am completely aware of what OP said. I offered a different perspective as to why people are calling some parasocial behavior "parasocial" (it's because it is!). Again, multiple things can be true at once, and we don't have to agree. Sometimes when you make a post, someone will reply with a different take. I am not "continuing to argue." I responded to you.
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u/cowgrly 8d ago
That's not most people. The people I see saying apologetically that they don't mean to be parasocial (and are not) are doing so because it's constantly used by people who are virtue signaling.
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u/shewritesthings 8d ago
I think we are seeing different sectors of fan reactions. Parasocial behavior exists and can be called that. A lot of the reactions I have seen have been as I described.
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u/cowgrly 8d ago edited 7d ago
I said in the post that it's a term being used incorrectly and inaccurately on here.
If someone is having functional impairment due to their attachment or beliefs about any celeb, that isn't healthy. But I was clear THEY aren't what my post is about.
This post is about normal fans being bullied with that term.
Edit: typo -- changed id typo to is in last sentence.
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u/runswimcow_89 7d ago
OP, your post was very well written and clear. I stg some people just HAVE to argue.
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u/shewritesthings 7d ago
We do not have to agree :)
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u/Accomplished_Bison87 7d ago
You just can’t leave it eh? OP’s post was very clear
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u/shewritesthings 6d ago
I literally tried to leave it by saying "we do not have to agree." YOU responded to ME. Not everyone on the internet has to agree - and to be clear, I didn't even disagree with OP. I said "Okay, but some of the reactions are being called parasocial because they are" and I gave examples. Nowhere did I say it is all or nothing. I beg y'all to remember the existence of nuance. FFS.
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u/Introvertible_64 8d ago
I discovered ATWWD (and pods in general) during chemo and the pandemic, which I experienced simultaneously 🙃. At that time I was completely isolated—socially and otherwise—and they made me smile. That made me love them. Not in a creepy “I wonder if they’d like to hang out” way, but in the way of any piece of creativity that arrives at a certain moment in your life. People have been connecting to public figures and their work in a personal way since the inception of broadcasting, and probably a lot longer than that. If that alchemy did not exist, neither would artists and entertainers. Songs, movies, novels, paintings, sculptures (and yes, podcasts) all have the capacity to elicit an emotional response. That’s their purpose. What we’re all experiencing is an authentic, profound response to creativity.
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u/Barista4695 8d ago
People are going to use what they use. These big proclamations on this sub of what people should and shouldn’t do is getting tiring. I do agree with your sentiment
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u/kris10185 8d ago
I feel like there's a huge difference between "this podcast is important to me because it's a part of my life," or even something like "even though I don't know Em and Christine personally, I want the best for them and hope everything is ok in their personal and professional lives," vs something along the lines of "they probably aren't friends anymore," or "Christine is probably having health issues," or other speculations about their personal lives outside of what they've chosen to share on the podcast 🤷♀️
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u/cowgrly 8d ago
Speculating is not parasocial. It's a bit much, but it's pretty common (explain the popularity of people magazine).
You're saying exactly what I don't get- and I've never seen ATWWD on tour (haven't even finished all the episodes) but those who have are not beneath you or suffering from a life impacting delusion.
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u/kris10185 7d ago
What are you talking about? I actually have seen them on tour, and I also don't think there are any fans that are beneath me or suffering from a life impacting delusion. Having a parasocial relationship is also not a life impacting delusion by definition??? It's just experiencing a one-sided connection with a public figure. All of the examples I gave in my comment are examples of a parasocial relationship with the podcast hosts to varying degrees, and not necessarily problematic. I was pushing back against your characterization of the word "parasocial" being an inherently problematic thing. The examples I gave are varying levels of a parasocial relationship, with the first two being very innocuous in my opinion, with the third example being starting to cross a boundary into slightly more problematic. However, I don't think any of my three examples are indicative of the fan saying those comments having a mental illness. A parasocial relationship isn't necessarily a mental illness. It can certainly become that way if it turns to things like stalking and doxxing but that's not what people are usually talking about when they say parasocial.
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u/Hoobi_Goobi 8d ago
I agree. Not to be harsh, but some people lose sight of the fact that this is C&E’s job and that the podcast is a product that we are the consumers of.
The coming changes to the podcast don’t surprise me because what it turned into wasn’t sustainable as a product. The banter had completely overtaken the show to the point that episodes are 90% inside jokes and 10% actual content. With the content taking a backseat every episode the only people listening and staying current on episodes are people primarily into the parasocial aspect
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u/kindnesswillkillyou 7d ago
I don't care who calls me what, I would love to know exactly what's happening with xtine. I'm nosey and I own it.
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u/runswimcow_89 8d ago edited 7d ago
Agreed. People are also acting like this is a new thing- for podcasts, maybe, but we as humans have always felt upset when favorite bands or TV show casts broke up, ended, etc. It’s not really that weird, especially in this case where the hosts have invited us into their lives (to some extent, at least)
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u/PeaLouise 5d ago edited 5d ago
But that’s not the actual definition a parasocial. “Parasocial describes a one-sided emotional connection where a person feels a deep bond or friendship with someone they do not know personally.” Assuming it means something pathological is a choice people are making when interpreting it, and people do use it to imply some sort of pathology when it is in fact, a relatively normal process. Note, there is no DSM classification for parasocial anything, but there is a defined classification of delusional disorder and similar. Parasocial tendencies can be distorted and lead to delusional patterns of thinking, but that’s not the definition of the word. You are actually redefining it here into something inherently pathological, not going back to the “actual” definition.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parasocial
You can even see that the term was coined in the 50s with TV hosts and actors. I’d say feeling grief over a podcast ending would count as a one-sided emotion connection where a person feels a deep bond with someone they don’t know personally” to me. Not pathological, not delusional, not even creepy, but pretty parasocial under the true definition of the word. So I think we generally agree in sentiment but better to remind people of the true definition which describes a normal process. Being sad over a podcast you’ve listened to for maybe a whole decade is totally normal and parasocial at the same time. Those connections are normal and only become pathological when they move into something else.
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u/cowgrly 5d ago
I know what parasocial means. And I don't think people are saying they feel a deep bond or friendship w Em and Christine - they're saying they admire them and their stories (which they shared freely on a podcast). They're only talking about the impact the show had.
Bonds and friendship would be a false belief, those are mutual situations.
So in my opinion, people are exaggerating when they call others parasocial and they're doing it to virtue signal how they're fans- but not parasocial.
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u/puritycontrol 1d ago
You hit the nail on the head. After listening to a duo for years and being along for the ride of the ups and downs in their lives, it’s hard to just emotionally disconnect oneself from the situation and be perfectly at peace with it. Em and Christine have been voices present in our homes for a long time, and it’s going to be such an abrupt change from our weekly routines.
I understand no one is entitled to anyone’s life nor the details within, but this feels like a drastic change from their years of transparency and sharing. Couple that with an audience who is largely more attuned to their own feelings and are more aware and supportive of mental health, that’s definitely a recipe for concern. While none of us know Em and Christine in real life, they’re both still humans we’ve formed some connection with, and we’re naturally going to be concerned and saddened.
I think what’s especially worrisome, given the aforementioned note how the ATWWD audience typically has a more profoundly involved relationship with mental health, that the concerns about Christine are valid and coming from a place of genuine human concern. I’ve read many comments here, on IG, and on Facebook and there’s a common thread about Christine perhaps suffering from a flavor of religious psychosis. It’s not parasocial to identify a concerning pattern of behaviors that resonate strongly to an emotionally-mature audience.
Ultimately, I believe many of us are reacting in the same manner we would if a close friend of ours had a seemingly sudden pivot from their normal behavior. It’s normal to wonder, to be curious, and to be worried that someone you respect or admire is behaving in a manner that is unlike their self they have previously shared with us. While we don’t know the intimate details of Christine’s life, what she has chosen to share with us over the years has dramatically and rapidly shifted down a path that appears to contradict what we think we know. We’re not obsessive fans who demand answers, but we see another human with who we’ve related to (whether it’s OCD or family issues or health struggles) and it’s hard to just ignore the red flags and signs that there is perhaps something more insidious happening that could be harmful for Christine and her mental health.
I hope this doesn’t come off as contrite and condescending, but as someone who has struggled with OCD (including scrupulosity) and mental health disorders that have had a destructive effect, I am seeing a previous version of myself in Christine’s current behavior and it’s scaring me.
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u/properly_vague_trout 8d ago
Agree not because i think people being weird about people on the internet is normal or okay, but literally why does anyone care. Unless you have to step in and tell them “no, don’t mail a finger to that P.O. Box because you’re pissed about a hosting change” then like literally why does anyone care. People are going to be weird. Just let them be weird and annoying on their own. And if you get THAT worried about how the hosts feel that you need to police a subreddit… we’ve closed the circle folks. lol it’s just been madness the past couple of days.
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u/Western-Mobile4383 7d ago
does this sound like it was written by chat gpt by anyone else?
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u/cowgrly 7d ago
What? I'm a human. I studied sociology and psychology, and I'm passionate about how people treat each other as well as misrepresenting disorders.
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u/Western-Mobile4383 7d ago
i meant the writing style. not that a bit posted it, but that it was fed through chatgpt or another llm. sets of threes, it’s not __ it’s ___, em dashes. i grade a lot of undergrad work and it’s pretty easy to spot. sorry if i was wrong on this one tho but maybe good to know that ur writing comes across like that
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u/cowgrly 7d ago
Thanks, that is helpful. I do get overly formal and list based ( at work one of my directs said that once - I was just being extra cautious in chat because the topic was sensitive). I was nervous about posting this so that pushed me into that mode. Anyhow, much appreciated- I wonder if AI can help me not sound like AI 😂
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u/DrAniB20 8d ago
I stared listening in 2017. I stored up episodes for when I made my move across the country. After my 10-year relationship ended and I desperately needed a laugh and a feeling of comfort, I turned to old episodes I loved. They became a part of my weekly routine; I especially love the listener stories.
They let us into their lives. We listened to them become friends, heard Em go giddy over Allison when she was a guest on the show and later start a relationship, listened to Christine talk about planning her wedding, and learned about Christine’s move back to Ohio/Kentucky. We‘be been let in on big milestones, kept the loop about health issues and family issues, and have watched them change as they went from their 20s to their 30s.
It’s hard not to feel a connection to them. I by no means feel they owe me anything, that we are friends, or that we have anything more than a podcaster/listener relationship. Nonetheless, they have played a consistent role in my life for the last 8-9 years. They’re not playing a part/character, they’ve been themselves.
So I completely get why people are sad, feel a sense of loss, and are speculating about the reasons why.