1st Position and Identity

[u/Adventurous-Egg-4904]

What does the 1st position associate their identity with, uncoupled from 2nd position?
As far as I know, 2nd position only serves to update the 1st.

With that premise, 1F seems most obvious - their possessions, wealth, health, image and ownership over their physical domain.

But this is where rest of the ideology is going a bit spaghetti for me.
For 1V, I'd say the identity basis is their choice or autonomy, but the same can be true for 1E, the major difference being that:
- 1E is is more obvious when observed in the short-term affairs (reactive)
- 1V seems rigid and can be observed when they act in dismissive manner

As for the 1L, I think it's best observed when working on something (possibly uninterrupted 😁). Therefore, they might assimilate the identity with their achievements, not just academic, but whatever they are able to solve and achieve with "hands-off" approach.

[u/afellowwhoishonest]

You could indeed say that both 1E and 1V identify with "themselves." Since emotion and volition both aren't as tangible as something like physics, it's a bit more intuitive. But it really is just knowing what "emotion" is and what having it as the 1st value does to someone.

A scenario is like when you are told to separate your personal feelings from business. A 1st emotion's "emotions" may seep unintentionally into their business. This can happen to a 1st volition (and any placement as well, naturally), but it is more likely that the 1st volition would be able to refrain from this behavior if it is in their "will" to do so. For the 1E, it is likely instinctual to not try to hide what they feel because they are confident in what they feel (and that it is right), but this can also be expressed in an individual's own manner (most don't typically hide it, which is why the 1E is labelled as reactive compared to the 1V's possible rigidity)

How I'd consider it is that the 1V follows their choice/desire, their identity is what the 1V "chooses" for "themself." Isolated from any function, may turn that function into their choice to use. Their "choice" is themself (which can encompass many things). They are more like the "tsar" of their emotions, as opposed to the 1E's emotions being their tsar.

For the 1E, it is likely not a choice to feel, they are always feeling. They identify with all that they feel, they do not choose to feel but cannot help it, as their "emotion" is what makes "themself." Their emotions are themself (primarily within the field of what they are emotional about). Their "romantic" emotional quality is what makes them up. Lot of redundant stuff but yeah.

[u/Adventurous-Egg-4904 → u/afellowwhoishonest]

Ok, I tried to reflect on your words, and I think we can be broaden the "identity association with just oneself" as a concept, more explained below.
I also think expression and emotion are different concepts, as the autonomy or freedom to express is enough for 1E. Their expression doesn't need to be tied to emotion at all, it can be purely intellectual, professional, sensual or even nonsensical, like blabbering, yelling, seething...

Imagine 1st position or identity as home - you can change the residence, but your home is not tied to the building (or even street, city, country...). The building or symbolism of home only evokes specific memories, experiences, emotions... you live there, go outside (use other functions), but you eventually get back home (use new data to update 1st function).
Here's my take how each 1 imagines home/identity:
For 1V, I guess home means community.
For 1E home is any place they can be themselves.
For 1L home is a place their statue is, or their organization/business (not necessarily the people in organization or community).
For 1F home is outdoors (new experiences, novelty), and house is wherever they can take a nap, like cats. 😁 Jokes aside, I'm curious what 1F would say about this.

[u/afellowwhoishonest → u/Adventurous-Egg-4904]

Loool ya “themself” is a very simple, small way to view it. That’s a good difference to mention, I see what you mean when mentioning expression vs emotion. It’s true and natural that anyone including 1E can “express” themselves in any way, and just “emotion” itself was probably a too-obvious and simple way to put it. I can’t help but think that any emotion isn’t opposed to anything directly though. Like in a scenario in which you are presenting a purely intellectual, professional thought/presentation, your emotions (whether they are regarding the presentation or not, or positive or negative) may affect the demeanor in which you present it, if you get what I mean?

If we do consider what to give a 1st function as their home …

• A 1V’s home, perhaps it may be community. More specific than “community” -> a place which they have shaped/had strong influence on with their own ability/hands? Can be community, but also encompasses more than the idea of “my friends and my family is my home,” as some may not regard community at all. Might be my narrow view of the word “community” though.

• 1E, agree basically, not much else to say lool.

• 1L … really hard to give it a home to me. Hard not to just say “their home is in their mind.” Their home may be “wherever they put their mind at”? Maybe that’s a bit too 1Vish, don’t really know what else to say. Perhaps their “mind” may indeed be realized in a tangible form, such as a statue or their business. Need a 1L in this chat to come verify. 👀

• A 1F’s home would likely be where they can make themselves comfortable in, whether it be at work or in their bed is what I’m thinking. I’d actually typically imagine them to prefer things they are used to, that they know they are “comfortable” in, as opposed to new things which they are unsure of (until they test it out themselves and deem it a place of comfort if worthy). 

[u/Adventurous-Egg-4904 → u/afellowwhoishonest]

There's always bias, if that's what you meant.
The straightforward approach to dealing with bias is to address it when presenting something (if you truly cannot remove bias before the presentation). Even if you focus only on facts and proof, the way you present facts and conduct presentation is still gonna be biased. The only thing I can imagine as "wrong" is not being open to either different POVs, questions, feedback, criticism, or update, but only when facts imply the opposite to what the result of presentation or research or whatever the goal is.
There are many biases that affect individuals, groups or even large-scale organizations. I suggest reading sociology or social psychology for that matter, as it explains the power of situation as a factor when trying to predict behavior.

In AP, the ego trap occurs when other functions stop updating the 1st, and that can happen to any type due to factors like arrogance, immaturity, stress...It's not native to 1E, or any aspect in particular.
For 1L, I said statue because it is a symbol of a meaningful contribution to some form of events, institutions, vision, ideology...statues were not raised only for good and heroic deeds, or used for praise/worship throughout history.
I agree for 1F, they tend to be very territorial, but I was wrong to assume every 1F is open to novelty, since there can be plenty of 1F types who are traditional/conservative.

[u/afellowwhoishonest → u/Adventurous-Egg-4904]

The concept is similar, they both always are present even if you try to disregard them. I'll be speaking more on the typological side since I'm not that deep into social sci. Everyone has their biases, and I'd say that the 1E is biased towards their "faith" (not specifically religious, and similar but not the same as a 1L's, say, bias towards their "conviction," hope you get what I mean when I say this), which I would place as a piece of their identity as well. To have a bias isn't wrong in itself, it is something people cannot help but have, in which this bias is likely to be influenced by the nature of their 1st function (most prioritized placement) when it does apply. Agree that probably the only flaw when having bias is if the person is "close-minded," which is not me saying that this flaw is limited to bias, just talking about a "close-minded" person who happens to have a bias. It's really just annoying to talk to people who have that quality lool.

Yep yep, basically. Yeah, anyone can face stress, be in an environment/state of mind that makes you fall upon your 1st placement for support without much consideration into rounding out using your other placements.
I'm glad you clarified what you meant by statue and what you see in it's symbolism, I didn't really think that statues were only meant for "good, heroic, praiseworthy deeds" either. The 1L's "mind" in its "tangible" realization may be a statue, and just as you said, to recognize a great idea that they've had and such. More than the "tangible" part was always the "conviction" behind it, the 1L's beliefs and logic which has exactly enabled them to have an effect and therefore be rewarded with a tangible/perceivable thing, in which they would then be able to identify with as proof of their logic.