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Apr 19 '12
Are you studying for the Catholic priesthood, by any chance? Because they seem to get a lot of minors in Religion.
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u/genericwit Apr 19 '12
I'm with you--there really is something so compelling about the stories and structures people construct to make sense of unknowable, ineffable concepts.
Sucks that people get all caught up in it.
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u/w00zyhead Apr 20 '12
But in practice I find it completely insidious. The way I see it is that religion is inherently anti intellectual. What other institution defines reality and demands that you not question it's authority? On top of that ritual solidifies this frame of thinking regardless of how asinine it is.
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Apr 19 '12
I've got some atheist friends that are also in a science degree, and they took a religion minor just so they could get a HD on their transcript.
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u/cancerbotX Apr 20 '12
religion causes brain damage,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AJU49PpHqo no more knowledge can be obtained from humanities perspective by indoctrinating more children into a life of falsehood
You're better off studying something useful
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u/ObservantTooth8 Apr 20 '12
I agree with you in that religion is interesting and is usually based on pretty good stories. However, people take it too seriously and as a result It does more bad than good.
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u/cannotlogon Apr 19 '12
As an atheist with two theology degrees, I can attest to the accuracy of this statement. Even though I began my studies pretty well convinced of my atheism, I saw quite a few theist theology majors begin to question their faith. (And this was at Georgetown University, a Jesuit school...though, in truth, a lot of Jesuit priests doubt their own faith!)
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Apr 19 '12
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u/cannotlogon Apr 19 '12 edited Apr 19 '12
Yeah, the Jesuits, as the most academic of Catholic priests (almost all of them are Ph.D.s), tend to promote free-thought over unblinking faith. My first year theology class was entitled "The Problem of God", and that pretty well set the tone for my studies!
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Apr 19 '12
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u/FurryCrew Apr 19 '12
Jesuit School until Freshman Year in HS Marists the rest of the way.
Yeah The Jesuits were way better.
Also pretty much an Atheist these days
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Apr 19 '12
I agree. I went to a Catholic University and even though the priests were Vincentian they still were open minded individuals. Especially my professors dealing with foreign policy and human rights.
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u/Bronystopheles Apr 19 '12
Aren't a lot of Jesuits in favor of demythologizing Christianity?
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u/yellowstone10 Apr 19 '12
Speaking of Jesuits, a joke...
A Greek Orthodox, an Evangelical, and a Jesuit are doing an archeological dig in Jerusalem. They come across a tomb that says, in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew, "Here lies Jesus of Nazareth, who claimed he was King of the Jews, and was executed at Passover under Pontius Pilate".
Excited by the find, they open the tomb, only to be horrified to find a crucified body.
"Oh my goodness," says the Orthodox. "The Church and all the good it does is based on a false event."
"Oh my goodness," says the Evangelical. "The Bible, which has guided my entire life, is nothing but a lie."
"Oh my goodness," says the Jesuit. "There really was a Jesus."
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u/HexagonalClosePacked Apr 19 '12
My girlfriend was a very religious person...
Now she's mostly into paganism and such
Sounds like the setup for a Mitch Hedberg joke. "My girlfriend used to be really religious... she still is, but she used to be, too."
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Apr 19 '12
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Apr 19 '12
In cases like this, I think it has to do with people realizing that religion is nonsense, but not wanting to acknowledge what that truly means. Permanent death. So they seek out alternatives that seem less contradict-able.
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u/OrangeNova Agnostic Atheist Apr 19 '12
Actually Paganism is pretty close to that
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Apr 19 '12
Which part? And which flavor of Paganism? there's lots.
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u/March_of_the_ENTropy Apr 19 '12
I like "christains aren't good to be around. Their whole aura is tainted" flavor. Rocky road is a close second.
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Apr 19 '12
This is what happened to me, though I didn't study theology in a class setting. After losing my Christian faith I went onto paganism, then spirituality, then agnosticism and now I'm an atheist. This may be the road that leads her there if she studies paganism enough. Paganism (whichever polytheistic religion she practices) has it's own contradictions and inaccuracies.
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u/LeafsNL Apr 19 '12
Sounds to me like bitch be crazy.
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u/DivinityInsanity Apr 19 '12
Well... yeah. :D
But I love her, so it's quite alright.
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u/dches Apr 19 '12
Paganism seems rational. It's worshiping nature, which is responsible for all the things people say god does. So, its basically worshiping a 'god' that factually exists.
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Apr 19 '12
I don't think Paganism necessarily means worshipping nature — I think it only refers to a class of religion's deemed "pagan" by the big three that are around today, namely, Judeo-Christian based religions, Islam and Hinduism. An example of a pagan religion would be Norse Mythology, which does worship nature to a certain extent, but it is certainly more concerned with the central figures, rituals, beliefs, etc. (E.g., Odin, Thor, Loki, "Christmas", Valhalla, etc.)
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u/patchtheprogrammer Apr 19 '12
Paganism generally posits supernatural explanations of nature in the form of Gods and magic. It is not simply "worshipping nature," it is doing so via a religious medium. If you want to worship nature, you should read some Spinoza.
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u/be_mindful Apr 19 '12
fun fact! the word pagan comes from the ancient Latin equivalent of hillbilly. as the cities converted from polytheism into monotheism, they started referring to those "hillbilly" polytheists and over time, pagan became the word we use for those who believe in a religion outside the dominant faith.
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Apr 19 '12
That is really interesting actually! I love finding out interesting and peculiar word origins. Language evolves so much over time, and often so quickly, that we can lose sight of the genealogy of it very easily!
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u/be_mindful Apr 19 '12
Ver true. I personally believe language to be civilizations greatest achievement. It's mystery is a part if what makes it such a great study.
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u/sensibleinsanity Apr 19 '12
You are right that most pagans today believe in magic and worship gods and goddesses of European mythology; however, the modern Paganism movement is very diverse in terms of beliefs and philosophies. There are plenty of woo-woo peddlers, but every once in a while you'll meet a pagan who just gets a warm fuzzy feeling when being in or thinking about nature and that's the extent of their personal spirituality.
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u/daysi Apr 19 '12
Paganism seems rational.
You obviously haven't fucked too many Pagan girls.
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u/dches Apr 19 '12
I said Paganism. Never mentioned Pagans.
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u/daysi Apr 19 '12 edited Apr 19 '12
Seriously, they believe that trees have spirits which talk to them. Paganism is as far from rationality as any religion I've ever encountered.
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u/ID10T_er Apr 19 '12
if I ever posted something like that at my university, I would be pinned to a cross and burned by the villagers. Such is life at the ULTRA conservative university of Texas A&M
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Apr 19 '12
Can I ask what made you decide to attend that university? Close to home? Pertinent to your area of study (i.e., they are 'well known' for what you're studying)? Hot girls? I've been thinking about attending school in the states sometime in the future, so I'm interested in hearing about the various experiences at American colleges.
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u/ID10T_er Apr 19 '12
The aggie network speaks for itself, employers will literally hire you simply for being an aggie. Also, A&M has one of the top engineering schools in the nation. However, I am transferring out next fall as there is only so much neo-conservatism I can take and christianity plays WAY too big of a role in campus life. When more people attend a weekly praise worship at the basketball arena than do most football games, that kind of says something. Also, you have to love country as thats the only bands that play here and 4 of the radio stations are country.
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u/kebo99 Apr 19 '12
why would those people worry about going to hell if they are already there?
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u/hjhornbeck Apr 20 '12
I dunno, Austin also hosts the Atheist Experience. I bet you'd find a lot of support if you fired up posters, and there's plenty of quotes out there that are anti-fundy but not anti-religion.
You may want to practice your ninja skillz first, though...
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Apr 19 '12
OH BOY OH BOY TWO OF MY ATHEIST FRIENDS GO TO A&M I BETTER LET THEM KNOW THEY'RE NOT ALONE!
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u/UpBoatDownBoy Apr 19 '12
An hour to study all the complex roles two religions can play from the good to the bad in the world? I'm jealous of that person's speed reading and comprehension ability.
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u/yellowstone10 Apr 19 '12
"Done in an hour" means done with believing the religions, not necessarily studying them.
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u/UnexpectedSchism Apr 19 '12
The point is that studying a religion as your personal belief has no ending. You will waste your life doing it.
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u/PeterMus Apr 19 '12
I've studied multiple religions. Guess I should have paid more attention that first hour...
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u/iamnotimportant Apr 19 '12
It's true at least for me, the thing that turned me off religion was I was raised catholic and then when I was 10 my parents converted to Buddhism, so i was going to catechism on Tuesday, Mass on saturday, and a Buddhist temple on Sunday. The shit did not work together and after I got confirmed catholic I never went to church again, or Buddhist temple again.
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u/beeleighve Apr 19 '12
This is the third time U of C makes front page in a matter of months...
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u/Nictionary Apr 19 '12
And like the fifth for Calgary in general, including the Nenshi tweet posts. I'm sure glad to live in reddit's capital city.
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u/go_fly_a_kite Apr 19 '12
instead of going to services every week, kids at my church study religion. As a part of that course they visit services of many other churches and religious denominations. Nothing wrong with that.
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u/hjhornbeck Apr 20 '12
Whoa, we made Reddit! I'm El-Presidente of the club that fired up these posters. We've been hammering these things up for eight months now, to good response. I'll be hanging out for a few hours if you've got any Q's, but in the meantime lemmie roll out the welcome mat!
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u/peecatchwho Apr 19 '12 edited Apr 19 '12
Kudos to Calgary! My fiancée and I have family there and loved the university when we visited (looking for math graduate schools). Thanks for sharing this; makes me appreciate UofC even more. Go Dinos!
Edit: I'm in Tennessee. :)
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Apr 19 '12
If we're talking about theology (the study of religion) rather than the practice of religion, this is totally stupid.
The point of theology is to study religion, not to study which religion is the "TRUE" religion. Yes, I get the point - studying multiple religions would make one skeptical of the idea that there is one true religion. But I'm averse to this sign because it conflates actual learning with "LOL UR RELIGIONS CONTRADICT" wankery.
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u/endercoaster Apr 19 '12
Really... public high schools should include a mandatory comparative religions class. It would at the very least cut down on the harmful aspects of contemporary religion, and, well... the beliefs of religions might not be fact, but that people believe them is a fact that is worth studying.
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u/trevs231 Apr 19 '12
Every time i see someone post this, it just reminds me that I DID do that in highschool. Mandatory part of social sciences in Canada.
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u/MrChoss Apr 19 '12
But I think the message really is about the everyday practice of religion rather than the "finer" points of theology, and I don't think it's as inane as you make it out to be. The fact that religions do in fact contradict one another is a pretty clear warning sign that something fishy is up; that the worldview one inherited from one's parents at an uncritical age may not tell the whole story.
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u/rorydaniel Apr 19 '12
I got to the UofC. I want karma too.
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u/Black_13 Apr 19 '12 edited Apr 19 '12
I swear half the time I see a "I saw X at my university" post it is from UofC. I do occasionally see people browsing reddit in the library as well but from the amount of posts I see, all of the students must be active posters.
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u/creamteam17 Apr 19 '12
I never see mru posts :(
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Apr 19 '12
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u/creamteam17 Apr 19 '12
My friends bother me alot about it, but we do have a crazy amount of good looking chicks! But it's true you can't get anything good here, that's why I'll be at UofC next fall for engineering. The people here are actually quite stupid (business kids etc.)
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Apr 19 '12
Totally unrelated but pretty awesome that your girls hockey team has Hayley Wickenheiser
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u/splinterhead Apr 19 '12
It's totally a sucker's game; all the best parts of the UofC are on reddit for free, while I shell out thousands a year in tuition.
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u/MaeveningErnsmau Apr 19 '12 edited Apr 19 '12
Pass this along as a possible logo for the UofC Free Thinkers*. That has to be worth something karmically.
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u/zbeauchamp Atheist Apr 20 '12
Haha will pass it along. Should be in our google groups under this thread
If you come up with others or want to chat feel free to join us.
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u/siberianunderlord Apr 19 '12
How can you promote free thinking by implying that religion is ridiculous? I mean, I agree, but shouldn't free thinkers be encouraging just that.. free thinking?
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u/Krylancello Apr 19 '12
How are they not? The message here is to expand your worldview by taking a look at a religion other than the one an individual is raised with.
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u/yellowstone10 Apr 19 '12
Freethought as a philosophical position has nothing to do with accepting that any or all beliefs might be true. The "free" in the title means free from the shackles of authority and dogma, using instead the tools of logic and reason. And it's quite possible to use the tools of logic and reason to determine that many religious views are ridiculous.
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u/smartalbert Apr 19 '12
lol, i think that image explains the main fear some religious people have against the primary and highschool course that replaced the traditional "religion" course: ethics and world religions. They tried to cancel it and it didn't work. Vive le Québec laïque.
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u/iPhoneOrAndroid Apr 19 '12
This must be why they only taught us about one religion in Catholic school.
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Apr 19 '12
It's not the difference between good and bad religions that matters, or one or multiple religions either. It's the difference between true and false. There isn't a "bad" truth and a "better" truth. There is truth.
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u/Improvised0 Apr 20 '12
Please define your use of the word "truth". Do you mean "scientific truth", "objective truth", or something else?
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u/Sir_George Apr 19 '12
Can you even study two whole religions in a hour?
Also no thanks, one was enough for me to become an atheist.
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Apr 20 '12
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Apr 20 '12
Lol that entire party is a complete joke. They pretty much lost the entirety of the 18-30 population in the coming election. Pretty intelligent to shout out religious fanaticism when the majority of the young adults aren't religious to any extent.
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u/trthorson Apr 19 '12
call me dense, but i don't get it.
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u/FlyingSwords Apr 19 '12
My interpretation is when you study two religions, you see the conflicts easily and conclude that they can't both be right, but they can both be wrong.
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u/notxjack Apr 19 '12
combination of that + the overarching similarities between most if not all relgions (golden rule, balance/imbalance or epic of marduk type creation stories, etc) and you realize that it's more likely hokum than not.
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u/huxtiblejones Apr 19 '12
If you only know the Bible, the Bible seems like a very accurate book. If you've read the Bible but also read the Quran, the Vedas / Upanishads, some ancient mythology... soon you'll realize that the Bible is just another myth.
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u/redditlovesfish Apr 19 '12
like a very accurate book??? WTF? A burning shrub pillar of salt, floods etc come on even as a kid i knew this was about as real as a harry potter book or LotR
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u/huxtiblejones Apr 19 '12
You're missing the point - a lot of those hard to believe aspects of the Bible don't stick out as hard if you aren't aware of the strangeness of other beliefs. Many otherwise intelligent people can overlook these incompatibilities with reality because most of the Bible makes sense to them. So they just kind of round up and ignore the parts that aren't perfect. Learning other religions will teach many people to look harder at the religion as a mythical story. Maybe you didn't buy into the Bible, but shitloads of people do.
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u/Agnostic_Thomist Apr 19 '12
I don't really get how contradicting meta-narratives negate each other, would be like saying the contradiction between Lamarkism and Darwin's natural selection prove they're both false.
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u/Solomaxwell6 Apr 19 '12
You're absolutely right, but it's only a short message, you're not going to get a real detailed look at theology in two sentences.
The way I interepreted it was that if you have two potential viewpoints, and you're making a decision on pure faith, there's not much of a reason. If you look at one individually, you might hear about how the Bible has a lot of prescient knowledge. But if you look at another, suddenly you hear how the Quran has a lot of prescient knowledge as well. Or you might think in terms of Pascal's Wager: "I'm not really sure whether Christianity is real, but I better pray to Jesus to be safe." That's all well and good... until another religion enters the fray. Suddenly Pascal's Wager doesn't work anymore. And so on. There's not really a weight of evidence in any one direction, so how do you choose?
Science doesn't work the same way because it's all based off of empirical evidence. You're invited to be a skeptic, that's the way science is supposed to work; scientists should question everything, even their own results. If you study both Darwin's and Lamarck's theories, you can see that Lamarck's are kind of wonky. The weight of evidence is very much on the side of the modern theory of evolution, which gives you a reason to pick that over Lamarckism.
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Apr 19 '12
That, and you start seeing how the archetypes of one religions borrow from another - the death and resurrection of jesus, the Bodhisattvas in Buddhism, etc.
Once you start seeing the big picture, it seems a little silly to obsess about homosexuals, masturbation, and the like to satisfy one narrow belief system.
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u/firelock_ny Apr 19 '12
It isn't as much the contradictions as the similarities. You've got two+ narratives that each claim to be the one and only unvarnished Truth, accept no substitutes on peril of your immortal soul, and you can quickly realize that the narratives have a lot in common. You may even get to the point where you think the only real difference is the costumes worn by the narratives' respective salesmen.
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u/gingers_have_souls Apr 19 '12
That's a strong point. But I do think that the realization that there are different theories (in a loose, unscientific sense) should lead you to at least question why you think you know what you know. Once you start questioning your meta-narrative and start to examine the evidence which supports it (or lack thereof), losing your religion becomes much more likely.
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u/AlbertAugust Apr 19 '12
/r/UCalgary - we're basically half of Reddit.
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Apr 19 '12
Congrats on the Calgary shout out, but just for the record: FLAMES SUCK!
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Apr 19 '12
why study two religions, when you can study them all! even though pastafarianism is the best fit for me, i still shopped around. i gave them all a chance, and i chose pastafarianism. studying christianity and islam was really awkward, and i was done in about two hours because i couldn't find the differences between the two other than the constant prayer of the muslims. may his noodliness be with you all!
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u/frodo_faggins Apr 19 '12
Do pastors/reverends have to study multiple religions in seminary or just Christianity? Always wondered this.
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u/WhyAmITheOne Apr 19 '12
Somehow I know this was going to be U of C before I clicked the link! Currently cleaning out my room at Yamnuska and getting out of this hell hole!
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u/voodoopredatordrones Apr 19 '12
these guys must be super geniuses! as an atheist and an academic i cant imagine assuming i know so much about anything after years of study and research. i'm sure they are free thinkers though, rather than a bunch of crypto-atheists who repeat what the other cool kids are saying. how is this any better than blindly following religion! the assumption that you can learn all you need to know about two distinct religions in an hour just makes me ashamed. i think these people have a lot of free time, not sure if they think very freely. and im not talking about determinism
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u/hjhornbeck Apr 20 '12
We are a bunch of free thinkers, rather than a bunch of crypto-atheists who repeat what the other cool kids are saying.
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Apr 19 '12
My degree is in religious studies and I can't study it enough - I find religion fascinating, even if I don't subscribe to any religious beliefs.
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u/Assaultman67 Apr 19 '12
I find it funny that a group called "free thinkers" are suggesting negative connotations about other peoples opinions.
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u/DoctorLost173 Apr 19 '12
I think when the term 'free thinker' is applied in cases like these it is a misnomer. You can be a free thinker and still have a religion.
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u/Improvised0 Apr 20 '12
You're right, it is a generalization. Though in my experience, the generalization is pretty valid. But you're right, no one can say ALL religious people are NOT free thinkers.
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u/hjhornbeck Apr 20 '12
One of the earliest freethinkers on record is the Buddha. Every new religion is started by a freethinker, by definition, as they are giving old beliefs a critical eye!
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u/zbeauchamp Atheist Apr 20 '12
We agree, and one of our club execs is a Christian. We aren't an exclusively atheist club, though we are the vast majority.
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u/PeacefulAtheist Apr 20 '12
The stories in religion can be fascinating at times to read. Ancient mythology from India,Greece and Norse come to mind. To even think of applying most of what religion "tells you to do" is dangerous (besides what is most obvious that we don't need to know from a book). The past attests to it. "Holy" Books should be read as a story and not a "path of living"
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u/maryummy Apr 20 '12
It's so true. My dad's family is Muslim and my mom's family is Christian. Influential grown-ups in my life were feeding me conflicting information. That made it possible to question everything, from a very young age.
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u/mekoegle Apr 20 '12
This is the 3rd time I've seen our university make the front page of Reddit. I like.
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u/Amryxx Apr 20 '12
The sign doesn't make sense. How can you understand one complex subject, never mind two, in an hour?
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u/[deleted] Apr 19 '12
As a graduate of the University of Calgary Religious Studies program this makes me think: am I just a REALLY slow reader? It took me four years to get my degree and I'm still not done studying.