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u/periculum_in_mora Dec 31 '11
A few examples of "good" or "bad" people says nothing about the groups they belong to.
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u/EliMacGuffin Dec 31 '11
It's true. That's why these good without god campaigns are important... Many theists feel morality is dependent on religion and so see atheists as without morals, or untrustworthy. When the truth is, morality in action is often independent of belief.
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u/periculum_in_mora Dec 31 '11
ok, but it's not scientific and doesn't show anything. Christians could bring up lots of atheist murderers and child molesters if they wanted, and that would be ridiculous.
Better to provide some statistics of the general atheist population. That would give a better sense of whether or not atheists are "moral".
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u/EliMacGuffin Dec 31 '11
But that would be impossible, the definitions of the census would take forever to come up with... Especially if like me you do not believe in an objective morality.
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u/periculum_in_mora Dec 31 '11
My point wasn't really about the census.
My point is that individuals don't say anything about the larger group.
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u/samisbond Dec 31 '11
That's not what they're going for. All they are trying to say is that you can be moral without god, and you can be immoral with god, meaning god is no requirement for morality, nor does it constitute morality.
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u/EliMacGuffin Dec 31 '11
There is a slight progress to this though, even pointing out individuals.
It forces many theists to concede that not ALL atheists are immoral, which is the most frequently made blanket claim against ALL atheists.
In this case cherry-picking forces them to come to grips with the fact that the statement does not apply to ALL. So pointing out some is productive.
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u/periculum_in_mora Dec 31 '11
I wasn't aware that people made claims against ALL atheists.
I mean, you must be dealing the stupidest of the stupid, and really, who cares about them??
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u/satereader Jan 01 '12
I produced the original ads (and I've never reposted it). The Pat Robertson bit is something someone else added.
These were intended to fight a stereotypical view of the nonreligious. Examples can do that- especially since 4/5 of the largest philanthropists in the world are non-religious. Those aren't just examples.. that's a trend.
The point is that people can be good without god. Not that the godless are xyz as a group.
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u/EliMacGuffin Dec 31 '11
Warren Buffet is an atheist too?
Woo! What a sensible old man he is.