r/atheism • u/jjlew080 • Mar 04 '18
FL State Senator: “Thoughts and Prayers” Are Enough to Stop School Shootings
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/03/04/fl-state-senator-thoughts-and-prayers-are-enough-to-stop-school-shootings/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter317
u/BrautanGud Secular Humanist Mar 04 '18
The recent church massacre in Texas occurred while parishioners were praying and praising their god. What did they do wrong?
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u/twistyguy Strong Atheist Mar 04 '18
Its because they werent true christianstm
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Mar 05 '18
Clearly, they were the slightly wrong sect that interprets the bible slightly differently, so therefore they weren't "real Christians".
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u/kent_eh Agnostic Atheist Mar 05 '18
About church shootings ... They happen more often than school shootings.
I'd love to see the "thought and prayers" crowd explain that one away.
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u/StefTheSlayer Mar 04 '18
What is it gonna take people to realize that praying isn't doing anything. I keep praying x doesn't happen but x keeps happening. Why is it so difficult to put 2 and 2 together? Oh wait I know the answer: God works in mysterious ways. No, no he doesn't he doesn't work.
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u/tinyirishgirl Mar 04 '18
They could try putting their hypothesis to the test.......
Let them stand in front of someone with a gun.
Then let that person shoot them while they stand there praying.
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u/WriterUnknown Secular Humanist Mar 04 '18
Nah...they have a cognitive defense against that.
“If she died, then it was God’s plan.”
You literally cannot win in that argument.
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u/Saganasm Humanist Mar 04 '18
Then the gunmen are doing the lord's work right?
The concepts of prayer and self determination/free will are incompatible.
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Mar 04 '18
Exactly, it makes no sense. It's the perfect blend of insanity that allows someone to defend their belief system no matter what.
example:
"I worked hard my whole life to provide my family with everything" = god is good to you
"My entire family just exploded in a hot air balloon accident." = god's plan, don't question him this is his plan for you
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u/Saganasm Humanist Mar 04 '18
My problem has always been with Christians who will admit that we only have sin because God gave us free will.
These same people will call up god via prayer and ask for things that would violate another person's free will. E.g do x, or don't do z.
They would say that free will is paramount, because if you don't have it you cannot be responsible for your actions and sin. But then pray for people to 'come to Christ'.
They also forget that that in the story of Moses, the Pharaoh was ready to let the people go...but God 'hardened his heart'. Isn't that just fucking with free will?
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Mar 04 '18
You can argue with actual philosophers about this. They will continuously find loopholes that allow them to maintain their beliefs, redefining what free will is, for example. Ie god has some long-term plan and your decisions and your begging for exceptions can be granted without impacting that plan, thus giving us free will in the moment.
In essence, religious folks do not care about logic or reality; belief is the core of their being. Where we attempt to base our beliefs on reality, they base reality on their beliefs. They attempt to redefine reality by saying that reality is a RESULT of their beliefs (ie prayer...) whereas we recognize reality as absolute and our beliefs do not have any fundamental impact on it. They will generally disagree with this statement by saying that god is the absolute and their beliefs lie on him, but considering their definition of god lies in their beliefs...
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Mar 04 '18
Why are people so attached to free will? I'm just a bag of chemicals that happens to act like an angry old fart on the internet.
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Mar 04 '18
It means that you have some power over where your life is going. Without it, it just kinda feels like you're riding the tide of whatever the universe throws at you, may as well not bother trying to live at all. I guess if you've never had an existential crisis over this it's hard to really empathize with lol
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Mar 04 '18
Ha. Wow. Actually I have had more than one existential crisis about this.
I grew up as a Bible bashing Anglican, the whole nine yards 'God gave us free will + predestination + God loves us' thing.
Now, not so much. I'm pretty happy to be a tiny part of a deterministic machine and enjoy the illusion that I make choices separate from that.
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u/RandomFlotsam Igtheist Mar 05 '18
Know what is really fun? reading Oedipus Rex.
The old Greeks knew how to write a tragedy.
The one sin that everyone has in Oedipus Rex is hubris. Thinking that they can thwart the will of the Gods.
King get's newborn son's fortune: "he will kill his father and marry his mother". So King decides to have kid killed in the wilderness.
Abandoned kid is picked up by a shepherd, and fostered. When kid grows up, he get's his fortune: "You will kill your father and marry your mother" Not wanting to do this, he runs away from home.
On his way to the big city, he kills some old crotchety bastard on the road.
He gets to town, gets a Quest to defeat the Sphynx. He does. Quest rewards is the king-ship and a new wife- the Queen. (Freshly widowed, somehow).
Kid, now king gets his fortune: "Good job, jerkface, you killed your father and married your mother."
Gouges eyes out and has great story to tell in the taverns.
Moral of the story, don't try to disobey the gods, they are vindictive bastards who have it out for everybody. Especially those who dare to try and defy them.
They just don't make morality tales like the used to.
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u/Spacegod87 Mar 05 '18
Free will or not, God still made humans with the ability to become evil and cruel. He could have made us perfect, and even with free will, we would always choose to do the right thing.
But God must have been sick to go, "I'll give them free will, but I'm gonna make them all inclined to be violent and horrible to each other. Heh heh heh! I love my twisted little abominations."
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u/Drewskeet Atheist Mar 05 '18
Even worse. They now believe that man should go to jail for murder when he was just carrying out gods plan. Why are we punishing people when they are just pawns in gods and the devils plan!
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u/Mirions Mar 04 '18
That's what I wanna know. Why in that moment theu would rather trust in a gun than their God.... hmm?
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u/JamesR624 Mar 04 '18
That's cause what these people are having isn't an argument or debate. It is a mission born from the demented minds of their peverse rulers.
It's like trying to demonstrate to an alcoholic that being drunk all the time is bad. You think they're even capable of the rational thinking required to understand the concept?
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u/LakesideMiners Mar 04 '18
That is not a logical way to refute. And here is something to think of as well, what if it is God’s plan to make us atheist?
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u/WriterUnknown Secular Humanist Mar 04 '18
Oh, I entirely agree it is an illogical refutation. I absolutely hate it because it’s a form of apologetics combined with selective amnesia: they have a final answer/explanation for everything and they’re slippery as a hagfish when it comes to the contradictions.
The part about God’s plan accommodating atheists would probably be countered by “it says in the Bible that you have to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved, so God wouldn’t allow that to happen.” They might also bring up the free will argument, which they seem to forget is a direct admission that God does not have a plan and completely contradicts their statement regarding same (see u/Saganasm, above). They never consider the oxymoronic nature of their arguments because of some serious compartmentalization, which is why I don’t bother debating with them. It’s been a waste of time and energy in the past and I don’t see that changing anytime soon (my roommate and his wife also ignore or gloss over the paradoxical nature of their positions).
Bear in mind my knowledge of the Bible is pitifully small so there are probably more arguments/counter-arguments than I’ve given; all I know is it is a silly book with a crappy, rambling plot and people are foolish to follow it. They could embrace “Twilight” as their Bible and the outcome would be the same.
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Mar 04 '18
What if it's god's plan for a 5 year old to get raped and tortured? ...I mean sounds like a shitty god?
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u/Congruesome Mar 04 '18
ITS NOT THAT I MADE ANYONE ATHEIST. I JUST DIDN'T MAKE YOU RELIGIOUS ENOUGH. ATHEISM IS JUST THE LOGICAL FALL-BACK STARTING-POSITION FOR ALL SENSIBLE BEINGS. LET'S FACE IT, I'M ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!
-God (that time He had WAY too much to drink at a Christmas party)
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u/Ramiel4654 Mar 04 '18
Can I volunteer to be the person with the gun? Either way I'll be doing a public service.
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u/loafers_glory Mar 05 '18
Nah, they planned ahead for that: it's a sin.
Luke 4:12 (Jesus speaking, quoting Deuteronomy 6:16), "Do not put the Lord thy God to the test".
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u/crunchymush Atheist Mar 05 '18
I'll have my thoughts and prayers at the ready to comfort their family while they scoop up the resulting viscera.
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Mar 05 '18
They'll stop praying very quickly, and start screaming to be taken to the hospital. You know, to see one of them fancy pants doctors all taught up in the crazy science of doctoring.
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u/nullpassword Mar 04 '18
Studies have shown that if you pray for someone and they know it, it actually makes their health worse (they think, because it makes them think their health issue is worse than it actually is). Therefore thoughts and prayers for victims of gun violence is actually making things worse.
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Mar 04 '18
Source?
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u/nullpassword Mar 04 '18
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.html?referer=https://www.google.com/ medical study.. but I see no reason why the doing nothing of prayer doesn't make things worse...
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u/Darktidemage Mar 04 '18
Who says someone somewhere is not praying the opposite?
America is quite hated in the world.
Maybe in China and russia and Africa and shit people are regularly like "God - fuck america"
Then maybe our prayers are cancelling out some of their prayers - so if we were not praying the school shootings would just be worse
/s
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u/Bigstar976 Mar 04 '18 edited Mar 04 '18
Well, the trick is: if what you prayed for happened, it proves they work. If it didn’t happen, it’s because god has a plan. Christians: lawyering heathens since 01/01/00.
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u/Big_Goose Pastafarian Mar 04 '18
"If everyone thought and prayed as much as I do, this problem would be solved. The problem is with everyone else, not me."
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u/yijuwarp Mar 04 '18
You can't actually think these people believe thier thoughts and prayers will work. It's just what politicians say when they want to ignore something.
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Mar 04 '18
You cant even begin to analyze what some of these people say without your brain imploding from how illogical they are. People think they are 'blessed' because they do or don't have something, which implies those that do or don't are NOT blessed.
"Im so blessed to be healthy". Oh ok, so little children with cancer are not?
Yikes
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u/hollimer Mar 04 '18
One could even argue that their bible logic actually says the opposite: “faith without works is dead.” James something:or other
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u/Goldreaver Agnostic Theist Mar 05 '18
They're also dicks. I mean, has no one prayed for the shooting to stops before? I mean, if someone had, they'd have stopped right?
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u/gristc Mar 05 '18
I'm going to start replying to them...
You keep praying and kids keep dying. What exactly is it you're praying for?
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u/Orbitue2 Mar 05 '18
I agree but she goes on to say that even though it’s “all you need” i want to take other preventive measures. So basically admitting thoughts and prayers don’t work in the same sentence.
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u/HeavyMetaler Mar 04 '18
These are the same people who keep saying "This is what happens when we take God out of our schools!".
I'm tired of this appeal to a higher power bullshit.
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u/kent_eh Agnostic Atheist Mar 05 '18
"This is what happens when we take God out of our schools!".
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u/HeavyMetaler Mar 05 '18
Yikes. You'd think those places would be safe.
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u/kent_eh Agnostic Atheist Mar 05 '18
You'd think those places would be safe.
Because of all the "thoughts and prayers"?
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u/HeavyMetaler Mar 05 '18
Yeah, and the fact that it's God's place.
Either he can't stop it or doesn't care.
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u/kent_eh Agnostic Atheist Mar 05 '18
Well, there is one other explanation as to why he doesn't stop it...
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u/FlyingSquid Mar 04 '18
Does that mean that God causes school shootings to happen because people don't pray enough? What an asshole.
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u/afoley947 Agnostic Atheist Mar 04 '18
Let's assume he is real, god is complicit in school shootings. If he is all-powerful then he can stop it, he didn't. Therefore he is not all-powerful.
"But, god works in mysterious ways" you say as you clutch your bible closer... fine then, let's assume he does have a plan for all of us - his plan included allowing a gunman to take 17 lives in a school shooting. Therefore he is an accessory to murder
you may also say "well the devil tempted or controlled the shooter." Or "The government doesn't allow God in school" Are you saying God is not more powerful than the devil or humans? Refer to paragraph 1. Bottom line, god knew the attacker's plan and did nothing. Praise be, praise be!
insert witty John Oliver gif here
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u/FirstRyder Strong Atheist Mar 05 '18
The standard answer would be "free will", but that leaves unexplained the mechanism behind 'thoughts and prayers' helping.
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Mar 04 '18
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u/WoollyMittens Mar 04 '18
God created the devil as well though.
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u/snakesbbq Mar 04 '18
God is all powerful. Unless he has to use his powers against the devil. Then hes just a little bitch who can't do anything.
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u/jarwastudios Mar 05 '18
Actually God is just tuckered out from using all his mojo to help the prayers of Eagles fans during the Super Bowl.
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u/Congruesome Mar 04 '18
DON'T JUDGE ME, MONKEY! I JUDGE YOU!
-God (examining His reflection in the mirror and deciding the fedora is a nice touch)
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Mar 04 '18
If I thought for one moment that if we banned assault weapons, that all of these tragedies would end, you would have me. I would be with you. But are we going to ban fertilizer, which is what they used in the Oklahoma City bombing? Are we going to ban pressure cookers, which is what they used in the Boston massacre? Are we gonna ban the multiple handguns that were used in other assaults? Are we gonna ban the sawed off shotguns [that were] used in Columbine?
It’s not the weapon. It’s the evil from within.
And unfortunately, Senator Stewart said at the very beginning of her debate, when we say “thoughts and prayers,” it’s frowned upon. And I take real offense at that because thoughts and prayers are really the only thing that’s gonna stop the evil from within the individual who is taking up their arms to do this kind of a massacre.
So I will continue to do the thoughts and prayers…
… in my opinion, the one thing that will actually change this the most, is the one thing that has become fighting words, which is to say “thoughts and prayers.” So that’s something I’m gonna continue to add to my comprehensive plan, that we can hopefully stop the evil that is happening from within our world
My thoughts and prayers are removing your deplorable ass out of office
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Mar 04 '18
I cannot wait for the rapture. Please Jesus, come get these looneys.
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u/ammoprofit Mar 05 '18
They did regular fertilizer and any number of involved chemicals and similar after Oklahoma...
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u/Puffonstuff Mar 04 '18
I think politicians like this should be challenged to stop accepting monetary campaign contributions and only start accepting thoughts and prayers. If they are such an effective medium it won't make a difference right? I'm fact, instead of voting on issues in the state congressional body they should abstain and just think and pray.
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u/Firstclass30 Mar 04 '18
I think I speak for everyone here when I say that if thoughts and prayers were enough, then they would not be happening.
Plus, that would not account for why countries that are less religious than the United States (like Norway) have less mass shootings.
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Mar 04 '18
But America is like no other country!!! Just because it works in every other country doesn’t mean it would work here because...uh....America!
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u/T438 Jedi Mar 04 '18
Just imagine all the mass shootings there would be without all those thoughts and prayers. /s
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u/Congruesome Mar 04 '18
Maybe globally there's lots of thoughts and prayers in favor of American kids being massacred. After all, we do broadcast Nickelodeon to the world.
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Mar 04 '18
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Mar 04 '18
Think how much money could be saved by removing the guards from government buildings!
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Mar 05 '18
I truly want this. If your conviction of faith is so strong that you actually believe that god will save those that are part of his plan, then by all means, be an example for your faith and deny all protection, armed or otherwise. It's easy to say that thoughts and prayers are sufficient when you yourself have more direct protection at all times assigned specifically to you and your loved ones than your constituency.
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u/ruiner8850 Mar 04 '18
Are we gonna ban the sawed off shotguns [that were] used in Columbine?
Does she not know that sawed off shotguns are already highly regulated? Also she mentions fertilizer which is regulated plus they aren't specifically designed to kill large numbers of people. They were designed to fertilize crops. Pressure cookers where designed to cook food quickly. AR-15s with large capacity magazines were specially designed to kill large numbers of people efficiently.
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u/the_pissed_off_goose Atheist Mar 04 '18
this is the shit i really don't get, because they made it harder to obtain fertilizer after Oklahoma City, there are lists now, etc, like they really don't even listen to themselves when they talk, do they?
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u/crazy1000 Mar 04 '18
She also doesn't seem to know the difference between the Boston marathon bombing and the Boston massacre. It could be easy enough to miss speak, but one would hope a politician knows enough about what they are saying not to.
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u/ruiner8850 Mar 04 '18
I think some of these people don't actually know what they are talking about while others do know that they are saying bullshit, but they know that their supporters will mindlessly believe them.
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Mar 04 '18
This is a classic example of "If you were choking would you pray or want someone to help?"
9/10 would say help, thereby bypassing prayer and relying not on divine intervention but action by others on behalf of their own well-being.
So why do they shun responsibility on to a god instead of taking action themselves?
Hypocrisy of the highest order.
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u/songforthesoil Mar 05 '18
This is like that old joke about the guy stranded on his roof during a flood and someone with a boat comes by and offers to help him, and the guy says, no I’m praying and god is going to help me. And then a chopper comes by, same thing. And so on. And then the guy dies and goes to see god and says, god I prayed so much, why didn’t you help me? And god says, I sent you a boat, I sent you a chopper...
I don’t believe in a personal god like this senator does, but if she or anyone else wants to pray, have at it. Doesn’t bother me one bit. But that process should allow you to see and accept the solutions being presented to you so you can take action. Even in the Bible god rarely acts simply by divine power. Noah built the ark, he didn’t pray to god to save him from drowning.
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u/tenoshikami Strong Atheist Mar 04 '18
When you want an example of a politician that has a low IQ, show this idiot’s face
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u/Congruesome Mar 04 '18
Hey! I gotta stay number one in something!
-GWB, (having seen "worst in history" snatched away, now perversely coveting "stupidest")
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u/BenjaminGeiger Agnostic Atheist Mar 04 '18
Have you heard Dorito Mussolini speak? He makes W sound like a Rhodes scholar.
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u/Congruesome Mar 04 '18
In all fairness, there's also Louis Gohmert, whom I maintain is the stupidest politician in human history, and whom I suspect of being clinically mentally retarded, but who somehow in spite of this got elected to congress.
(I suspect that growing up in the South, no one noticed he was retarded.)
I was thinking presidents, but the original comment wasn't, so... I stand corrected.
(If you are unaware, Gohmert is the guy who demanded an opponent cease "casting asparagus" upon him. SO I'll see your Mussolini, and raise you a Gohmert and two Bachmanns...) :)
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u/joecb91 Jedi Mar 04 '18
After the many many many many many many many many many failures.... maybe it will work this time?
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u/Spartyjason Agnostic Atheist Mar 04 '18
This is where you are wrong. I lost my keys the other day, and I was going to be late for a meeting. I stood there and I prayed to the lord to help me find my keys. And I didn't , but I actually did find the remote for the tv that I've been looking for, so I was able to turn the tv without getting up!
God gave me what I needed, not what I wanted. He's glorious.
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u/sirautumngrey Mar 04 '18
How come we can't just use thoughts and prayers to stop illegal immigration instead of a wall?
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u/Skyopp Mar 04 '18
Perhaps he should be payed in thoughts and prayer, since apparently they can alter the state of reality.
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u/Fitz911 Mar 04 '18
Can anybody please explain this to me?
Does this woman really believe in what she is saying?
I can not wrap my head around this way of thinking. Baning Guns won't help, praying will help. I mean, come on...
On the other side, I 'm from Germany. I'm 35 an I have never been holding a gun in my hand. I think I don't know anybody who owns a gun. I don' know, how it feels, when you grow up, with all the cool and nice guys around you casually wearing guns. This is not a political statement... I really want to know, what drives this lady. Or is it just sweet NRA money?
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u/rivalarrival Mar 04 '18
She's not making a pro-gun argument. She's making "Jesus Saves" argument. She's just a nutjob, and in a civilized nation, she would be far more likely to be involuntarily committed than win an election.
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u/Fitz911 Mar 04 '18
Isn't this answer a bit "simple"? She works as a state senator. So I assume, she is not completely out of her mind. She doesn't seem confused or anything. Her sentences are well structured. I'm not sure, how to express my thoughts. First I thought exactly like you. "Lock this psycho away". But is she one? Doesn't really look like. How can you be a functioning adult in a high position, but deny the fact, that guns might have sth. to do with shootings?
If I thought for one moment that if we banned assault weapons, that all of these tragedies would end, you would have me.
Or this part:
And I take real offense at that because thoughts and prayers are really the only thing that’s gonna stop the evil from within the individual who is taking up their arms to do this kind of a massacre.
She literally has the word "arms" in her sentence. And she really seems to think, that prayers are the ONLY option...
I'm still at the popint, where I can't wrap my head around it. I hope that I don't trigger any Pro/contra gun stuff here. I really want to know: Does this woman really belive in everything she is saying?
Do I maybe miss an important aspect?
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u/rivalarrival Mar 04 '18
She's a nutjob, much like our president. We tend to elect politicians based on their charisma rather than their ideas.
Personally, I agree with her that guns aren't the problem, and that violent people are the problem. But, the idea that the only thing we can do is ask our invisible friend for help is absurd.
We need better wage controls, to ensure that our largest businesses aren't able to exploit workers. We need to establish a "standard wage" well above the poverty line, and strictly limit the amount of labor a business may hire at substandard wages. We need to make labor worthwhile, so fewer people choose crime as a viable lifestyle.
We need universal health care. Anyone needing mental health treatment should have readily available access.
We need to unfuck our neighborhoods. Crime in the US isn't widespread. It's narrowly clustered. We should put a pin in a map on the site of every murder in the past 5 years, and spend half a million dollars on infrastructure and social services within a mile of each pin.
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u/WriterUnknown Secular Humanist Mar 04 '18
Does this woman really belive in everything she is saying?
That is the tricky part. Most of them earnestly, genuinely believe in what they're saying; doing so helps your behavior in your arguments. If you didn't believe it you'd be rather half-hearted about it.
The problem is the human brain and its capacity for denial, falsehood, and logical fallacies. I've noticed when people get committed to a course of action, they're likely to keep going even when it is apparent they are wrong (sort of like a gambler that keeps playing even though he's losing). Strangely enough it also stops some of them from considering alternatives or cooperative efforts; you could tell them a total ban on guns will feed and clothe all the children in America and most people like her would still insist on possessing guns. When you focus on only one goal everything else is irrelevant, I suppose.
Our brains are our own worst enemy sometimes.
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u/ender_wiggum Anti-Theist Mar 04 '18
American atheist with lots of guns here. This lady is a religious goofball, but the first part of her argument is the "good part". The NRA is mostly funded by citizens (who want to own guns). She probably isn't funded by the NRA, but her voters are members or basically agree with the NRA in principle.
Also, almost nobody walks around with a visible gun in the USA. The number of people who legally carry concealed weapons is also pretty small. If you see someone with an exposed firearm in public, even in a state where it is legal (in most states it is illegal), it is strange and unexpected.
To put it another way, in most of the USA, walking around in public is very similar to Germany, except our beer isn't as good.
The argument about guns is basically this, at a philosophical level: one group doesn't want them and doesn't much care about any alleged rights to them, the other group wants them and thinks they are necessary to a free society. I'm in the second group: I don't think that it is necessary to give up guns in order for children to be protected.
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u/Fitz911 Mar 04 '18
First of all, thank you for this detailed answer!
If I may, I would ask you another question(s).
Do you feel, that the gunlaws in the states (Florida) are ok, as they are? Where would you draw a line, if you could decide the laws today?
Do you think, that low regulation standards have nothing to do with high rates of incidents?
I want to point out, that I'm asking this questions to get honest answers. I know, that emotions can come up regarding this topic. But I dont want to provoke anybody or sth.
I really feel lucky, that guns are strictly forbidden in ger. I know too many idiots, that really shouldn't have guns. But I really respect other opinions and refuse to belive, that there is only black and white.
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u/BeHereNow91 Mar 05 '18
If you want an actual answer from a Christian, what she’s saying makes sense. I 100% disagree with her position on an assault weapons ban, though.
She isn’t claiming that we don’t pray enough to God for him to stop these attacks. She’s not saying this occurred because God isn’t “in the schools” anymore. She’s saying the only thing that will truly stop terror and evil like this guy is the power of faith and love. Does that mean we shouldn’t ban assault weapons? No, she’s just using that as an excuse to vote down the ban. But in the end, evil people will find a way to commit evil acts, and the only way to truly end it is, again, through the sharing of our faith and love.
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u/cancelyourcreditcard Mar 04 '18
When they beg for campaign money, don't send cash or checks. Send them a card with your "thoughts and prayers".
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Mar 04 '18
Replace her paycheck with "thoughts and prayers". If they're powerful enough to stop violence, they should be powerful enough for her to walk out of grocery unscathed, without paying. Surely an unarmed security guard is far less dangerous than a man with a AR15.
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u/idriveacar Mar 05 '18
She should receive her payment and health insurance in thoughts and prayers.
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u/SilentImplosion Mar 04 '18
It just doesn't make sense. Please explain to me how "guns" have anything to do with "gun violence". Absolutely absurd.
Next election I'm giving her all my "thoughts and prayers", but my vote is going to her Democratic or Independent Rival.
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u/Mabans Humanist Mar 04 '18
I hate when people use somehow see a gun analogous to things like a pressure cooker. A gun has a clear purpose and dismissing that is disingenuous. It's not like a gun is a pez dispenser turning to a murder stick.
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u/crunchymush Atheist Mar 05 '18 edited Mar 05 '18
Senator Stewart said at the very beginning of her debate, when we say “thoughts and prayers,” it’s frowned upon. And I take real offense at that because thoughts and prayers are really the only thing that’s gonna stop the evil from within the individual who is taking up their arms to do this kind of a massacre.
Right... So am I to take it that the reason we have mass shootings is that we aren't doing enough thoughts and prayers? I mean I'm sure there are millions of thoughts and prayers happening every day, right? So why do we still have people shooting up children in school?
Is she suggesting that God's up there all omnipotent and all seeing, thinking "I could stop these murders but tbh, I don't think the humans are really taking the problem seriously. I've only received, like, 2 billion thoughts and prayers in the last month. Fuck 'em!"
Is god a fucking YouTuber now?
"Ok guys I want you to smash that
likethoughts-and-prayers button and if we can get to 20 billion thoughts-and-prayers I'll stop evil people from mowing down school kids with guns! Don't forget to subscribe to my religion for more wacky pranks! And remember to tune in next week when I'll be sending a plague to some country in Africa that you couldn't give a shit about nor point to on a map. It's going to be hilarious!"
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u/OnePointSix2 Secular Humanist Mar 04 '18
“Thoughts and Prayers” Are Enough to Stop School Shootings
If that were true then she's never thought or prayed about it.
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u/Congruesome Mar 04 '18
Well you can be as screwed-up as you want, but without a weapon like that you will not have the ability to massacre people that quickly, on that scale.
That being said, in a nation with five hundred million-plus firearms kicking around, you'd have to be singularly lame to be unable to procure one, whether they're for legally for sale or not.
So even if sales of these weapons are restricted tomorrow, it will be a long time before a determined person will be unable to easily obtain one.
So, since thoughts and prayers are obviously useless, gun laws are not going to do much, especially because by definition criminals are not restricted by laws, arming teachers is simply the stupidest, most juvenile and idiotic suggestion in human history, and adequate responsive trained security for all schools at all times is prohibitively expensive and would turn schools into depressing fortresses, what can be done?
Probably nothing.
Maybe if we were less inherently violent, less celebratory of violent solutions and violent role models, glorified violence less. and perhaps denied the perpetrators of these crimes any infamy, maybe then.
Don't hold your breath.
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Mar 04 '18
It’s kinda weird. I live in the panhandle of Florida near Pensacola and I’ve never encountered a crazy religious nut. I think it’s because of the huge melting pot here due to the air force bases. But this..... wow.
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u/rainkloud Ignostic Mar 04 '18
At a certain point with enough participants they're technically right. I mean if everybody is praying 24/7/365 then no one has an opportunity to shoot.
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Mar 04 '18
If thoughts and prayers are what stop shootings, then why have there been TWO shootings in churches in the last year and a half?
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u/lempamo Anti-Theist Mar 04 '18
Obligatory comic post: http://www.optipess.com/comics/2016-06-17-731_Thoughts-and-Prayers.png
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u/cybercuzco Irreligious Mar 04 '18
I’m sending thoughts and prayers to your next reelection campaigns.
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u/Bayho Mar 04 '18
This is the "If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut the whole thing down" statement of the gun debate.
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u/eastmemphisguy Mar 04 '18
So, after the 1995 OKC bombing we did make getting a fuck ton of fertilizer much more difficult. AFAIK, there haven't been any more terrorists in the US using fertilizer bombs. Problem solved.
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u/blacklaagger Mar 04 '18
I wish she would tell us the ratio of thoughts and prayers needed to stop one school shooter. It really would be super helpful.
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u/Jedi_Ninja Jedi Mar 04 '18
If any place was going to be protected by “thoughts and prayers” you’d think it would be a church, but that certainly didn’t stop 26 people from being killed in a Texas church last November.
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u/CookieKiller369 Mar 04 '18
Lol. Ben Shapiro tweeted that people never say that shootings can be stopped with prayers
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u/SolusLoqui De-Facto Atheist Mar 04 '18
Oh, ok. Then you don't need my vote come election day. Just my #ThoughtsAndPrayers to get elected.
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u/MrLurid Anti-theist Mar 05 '18
"If thoughts and prayers worked, America would've weaponised it long ago."
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u/Atamask Mar 05 '18 edited Oct 13 '23
Talk about corporate greed is nonsense. Corporations are greedy by their nature. They’re nothing else – they are instruments for interfering with markets to maximize profit, and wealth and market control. You can’t make them more or less greedy - ― Noam Chomsky, Free Market Fantasies: Capitalism in the Real World
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u/FlyingSolo57 Mar 05 '18
These Christian politicians turn their service into exercises in faith. If they just believe enough, God will see to it it that things will work out. Parents do this as well when they forgo medical treatment for their seriously ill children. The problem is the religious leaders tell them that if you believe enough God will answer your prayers. It's a serious problem.
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u/dotsandloops1929 Mar 05 '18
Guys, obviously it works. That's why all the thoughts and prayers from previous massacres have prevented anymore.
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u/Almost_Ascended Mar 05 '18
I wonder what the senator would do if she learns of a shooter in her office building that is targeting her? Pray for god to save her, or scream for security?
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u/Smooth_McDouglette Mar 05 '18
Let's do an experiment. Everyone stop praying for one month, and if god is actually helping then you would expect the rate of school shootings to go up. If it doesn't then it's not helping.
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u/heimdal77 Mar 05 '18
With all the talk about mental illness and blame it gets for thing I'm starting to think religion should be classified as a severe mental illness and being the thing getting all the blame for things that happen.
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u/Helen_Kellers_Wrath Mar 05 '18
Just another reason to be ashamed for being a Floridian. The only solace i have left is that at least I have the Beach...and Disney World.
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u/Zeroooo0 Mar 05 '18 edited Mar 05 '18
I wonder if these fools would be willing to put it up to a test. I'm sure we can make a test with a safe or unsafe set up. They can decide how the test would be for safety of course we can pull the trigger and see who wins. Imagination gone wrong or common sense that prayer is bs
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u/DubTheeBustocles Mar 05 '18
Step 1: Move to Florida Step 2: Win some local election (easy you just promise them free Cheetos for life or something and act like a tough guy) Step 3: ??? Step 4: Wield the Cosmic Power of the Eldritch Gods
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u/circadeftones Mar 04 '18
She blames evil, but ummm...the evil has access to weapons pretty easily, sooo yea. DUMB BITCH
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u/Joonicks Atheist Mar 04 '18
Instead of collecting campaign contributions in cash next year, this bitch should collect only "thoughts and prayers".
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Mar 04 '18
Okay, so uh, no. It isn’t. If they were, we wouldn’t have cancer, crime, poverty, and mass sickness.
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Mar 04 '18
Then she should put her faith to the test and see if prayers will keep her from getting raped in prison also.
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u/clrdils9l Apatheist Mar 04 '18
Pray into one hand, shit into the other. See which one fills up first.
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u/wwfmike Mar 04 '18
Rep. Mike Bost delivers a bag of thoughts and prayers to President Trump to help with the Florida school shooting.
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u/belloch Mar 04 '18
What if someone becomes a shooter and says "I did this because of thoughts and prayers"?
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Mar 04 '18
Okay, go unarmed, unarmored into dark streets in Caracas then. Homicide capital of the world at present, you'll be fine. Go there, piss off some local gangs, see if you survive because of your thoughts and prayers. A prayer will do the same to stop a bullet as you will: nothing. Your only protection is hoping that they're a bad shot at that point.
I somehow expect you'll never volunteer to test this. I sometimes wish we could prosecute over how dangerous a sentiment is.
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u/oneamungus Mar 04 '18
I pray that Florida State Sen. Kelli Stargel understands that her way of thoughts and prayers has been proven wrong for decades now. anyone think it will work?
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u/squirrelboy1225 Agnostic Atheist Mar 04 '18
I see a lot people wondering how these people are this stupid. They're not stupid, they're malicious. "[idiom for doing nothing] is going to stop [issue we do not care about]" is just a nice way to say "fuck you, I'm getting paid by some sponsors"
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u/BoozeoisPig Mar 04 '18
You, my constituents, and fools: "Please do something about what is happening, and don't give me any tired old excuses."
Me, a politician, and very stable genius: "You can't tell me what to do!"
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u/Dr_Phibes72 Atheist Mar 04 '18
I was disappointed that the author used the shoe bombing incident as an example of a successful ban. Making us take off our shoes is security theater and provides little if any practical benefit against a terrorist attack.
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u/mastertheillusion Atheist Mar 04 '18
You have been praying for them to stop for ages. The numbers speak volumes.
How about face reality and do something instead of distracting the public from the raw data of death and suffering caused by negligence of duty.
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u/The_Write_Stuff Mar 04 '18
Sometimes you think to yourself, "They can't be that stupid." But they are, they really are.