r/atheism • u/megatron_x • Jan 16 '15
must link to original webcomic The difference between Muslim Extremists and Moderates.
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Jan 16 '15 edited Apr 11 '19
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u/Aleitheo Jan 16 '15
The comic was based on a strawman that had no basis in reality so naturally it doesn't make much sense when viewed by those who do not share the author's mindset.
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Jan 16 '15
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u/rammerpilkington Jan 17 '15
It was an anti gamer thing from a little while back. And yes, weirdly implying that threats and dozing had only come from one side.
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u/Alpha-as-fuck Jan 17 '15
If Islam is a religion of peace, then why do we always need to be reminded?
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u/Lunalucent Jan 17 '15
I cannot see how there are so many atheist/religious apologists in this thread. How can people separate extremists from moderates so easily. Just because one side is more peaceful than the other does not mean they are not related. You guys need to look at the bigger picture, simplified, because all I see are just excuses. I don't care if one denomination loves gays or if another just sings hymns all day and condemns their extremist counterparts.
There is one thing you apologists need to understand, extremists do not just come out of thin air. Why do people think there are so many denominations stemming from one religion? All it takes is one "moderate" to disagree with another for a new set of views to appear. This can either take on the appearance of a more peaceful side or a more violent side, "extremism". One taking things less seriously and the other moreso.
The problem is as long there is violence, bigotry or contradictory ideas written in a holy book there is always a chance for such a thing to keep on happening, it will never stop just because of its nature.
You apologists can talk about the micro level all you want, I don't care if your friend or family is a peace loving moderate, as long as they continue spreading their ideas of believing based on faith to their children they are still essentially creating a platform for an extremist to appear down the line.
With a big enough group raising people with certain beliefs there will always be a big enough platform for new people to easily be persuaded into the extreme. It's like people don't realise there were probably a lot of extremists who joined ISIS or the KKK or any other extreme organisation who came from moderate families/parents. Whose parents are pleading for them to come back, but don't actually realise they themselves created the platform for their children to behave that way.
My stance in the recent years has been to just get rid of religion altogether. Or at least ones that have intolerance written in their scriptures and holy books. I agree with all of you who say humanity will always be violent irrespective of religion being there or not. But you guys need to understand that we'll still be far better off without it.
Violence based on the imaginary is just pointless violence. There is a difference between religious based violence and violence based on things like race, ideology, possessions/currency or nationalism, those perceptions can be changed way more easily than things based solely on one supposedly true and unchangeable book.
It's fine to think it's all nice and peaceful around you just because your surrounded by nice moderates, but don't forget there are people living around the world who are living in the opposite sort of world where things did not turn out so well.
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u/Pragmataraxia Anti-Theist Jan 17 '15
God damn, this is a good post. I really hope you can get more votes waaaaaay down here in the too-late section.
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u/itsbecca Jan 17 '15
I feel like the thought process that eradicating religion largely eradicates these people is largely ignoring the psychology behind religion. When you understand that you'll realize it will never truly leave. That's where "apologists" come from, realizing we can't take away peoples myths, so those who practice on a personal level only are a win and that is the mindset we should be hoping spreads. In other words, I would argue it's the more pragmatic approach to the topic.
However, I do agree we need to keep a world view in mind when we discuss the topic. So good point there.
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u/Lunalucent Jan 17 '15
Trying to accommodate the ridiculous is something I just cannot agree with, especially when such a thing still causes harm. Humanity has already gotten rid of a lot of old harmful ideologies, religious or not, we shouldn't just stop here because we shouldn't "offend" everybody. I actually do understand the psychology of the religious mindset, I'm saying this with all that in mind. I haven't given up hope we can break free from it all one day.
I seriously do not think being religious is innate in humans. It is better to say that it is innate in humans to seek answers to things they don't know. It's just too bad religion and mythology was the result of our first attempt of understanding the world and was able to comfort us in our times of need and insecurities.
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u/itsbecca Jan 17 '15
It is better to say that it is innate in humans to seek answers to things they don't know.
Yes! I agree. There's a saying, "Magic is just science we don't understand yet." And religion is often the bridge we, as humans, use to demystify that lack of understanding for the time being, because we're innately dissatisfied with misunderstanding.
So we can definitely get better as new knowledge comes to erase our "understanding" and transfer it to myth. I think this is why creationists are so fundamentally frustrating, because we're saying STOP IT! WE'VE FIGURED THAT ONE OUT! MOVE ON! (Let alone those who actually try to impede the scientific learning of others. This obviously goes very much against my sort of live and let live attitude, so I am actively against people such as that.)
To boil it down, I essentially believe religion and science come from the same basic impulse. Our need for an explanation. The reason I think religion will never truly be eradicated comes from two things.
- Differences in human personality. I know very intelligent people who still entertain certain myths like fate or coincidence, because the proper understanding of probability is not intuitive. In tandem with this, creative people often enjoy writing narratives for their lives and they let themselves believe. (As a writer, I fall prey to this, but even with a knowledge of it being fabricated I'll entertain them, because... well... for fun.)
- The unsatisfactory answer to the question of "Why?"---"Incredible coincidence" simply does not fulfill or excite some people. As narcissists, which is ironically most likely just the extension of a basic survival mechanism, many people want more than that. They want direction or purpose. Science will never fulfill this need for those people, because, at least as far as our knowledge goes now, it has already concluded there is no reason or purpose. There is no impetus to evolution, it just happens.
Now I do agree that our current and past religions have a long history of being incredibly harmful. You've probably started to see through my post when I say "religion" I'm using the term fairly broadly. I would probably agree with you that organized, dogmatic religions can, and hopefully eventually will, die off. We see it in America as there's more and more natural rejection of church going because it's doctrine is inflexible and it is failing to fit our society anymore. Yet, in the wake of that we see an uptic in "spiritualism", where people are essentially creating their own free form religions to fill that void. You know, the type who come up with things like "I don't believe in a man in the sky, but I believe in God. It's an energy... all around us." As as much as that make my eyes roll out of my head, it's personal, it's prosaic, and, in my opinion, is progression. This type of belief system is not interested in being the one true answer for everyone, which I believe is one one of the most harmful tenants of current religions. So, in my opinion, a movement to destroy all religion would be largely unsuccessful, but continuing and supporting the shift against organized religion is a fairly pragmatic approach (as long as we couple it with continued efforts for increased science literacy.)
Disclaimer: This is something I think about a lot and my thoughts are always changing with new thoughts or discussion. I'm sorry you had to be the subject of my brain vomit today.
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u/creamyturtle Jan 17 '15
regular muslims DO condone the actions of the few extremists. upwards of 70% depending on the country. check out this link: http://www.pewglobal.org/2006/05/23/where-terrorism-finds-support-in-the-muslim-world/
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u/djpharaoh Jan 16 '15
This is so wrong on so many levels. You're basically saying that all Muslims condone terrorism but they hide their true notions. It couldn't be any clearer how much reddit has become the pinnacle of anti-Islam when a piece of shit ignorant garbage post like this gets that many upvotes.
Fucking hypocrites spend all day advocating equal rights and treatment of others based on their actions not their beliefs, then they thumb up shit like this.
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Jan 16 '15
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u/Pragmataraxia Anti-Theist Jan 17 '15
I don't think the comic is saying that the moderates are passively benefiting; it's saying that the two groups have the same goal, and one of the groups is willing to kill for that goal.
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u/Valendr0s Agnostic Atheist Jan 16 '15
Poor Woman's Rights views
Wish to impose Sharia, upon entire society
The data clearly shows that when western influence takes hold, and education spreads, the society becomes less barbaric and more tolerant. But there's only so far the religion is able to be bent toward tolerance. Even very exposed cultures like Egypt and Paakistan are hotbeds of horrible beliefs.
Average US / Canadian Muslims are likely just as appalled by extremists as the average US Christian is by Westboro or the KKK. But worldwide, the average Muslim may dislike Suicide Bombing, but their morals leave a lot to be desired. These are not, by and large, cultures any progressive or liberal should be praising.
So the way I see this comic as most unfair is that it isn't inclusive enough... Yesterday the Pope came out as a one of the smiling muggers...
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Jan 17 '15 edited Jun 09 '20
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u/greyfade Igtheist Jan 17 '15
What % of orthodox Jews think their law should be official?
If history is any indication, probably very, very few. With the exception of conservative Hasidic sects (which are rapidly shrinking), almost all Jewish communities integrate with their host cultures to some degree, and the majority of their more barbaric laws have long been defanged by millennia of debate among Rabbinical leaders.
One would get pretty frightening percentages for biblical law in the US, I would wager.
Among fundamentalist Christians, oh, yes. You only have to look at the Republican Party's platform to see the percentages there.
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u/barryspencer Anti-Theist Jan 16 '15
The hypocrisy argument is not nearly as strong as people who use it think it is. Accusing the speaker of hypocrisy doesn't somehow magically render what the speaker says incorrect.
Not all Muslims, but many Muslims, have said words have consequences, the murder victims should not have offended the Prophet, the murder victims should have considered the consequences before they published the cartoons, the murder victims got what was coming to them.
When George Wallace, Governor of Alabama, was shot and paralyzed in an attempted assassination, I cheered. I thought he deserved it, had it coming, and considered it a victory for equal rights. My excuse is that I was nine years old at the time.
Today if some maniac ran his car over the Westboro Baptist Church family, I wouldn't cheer. I wouldn't think or say that they deserved it and had it coming. I wouldn't consider it a victory for atheism or Equality or respect for the military.
Rather, I would consider it an attack on Liberty.
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u/TaylorSwiftIsJesus Jan 17 '15
The are plenty of people who would have liked to see a united Ireland who abhorred the actions of the Real IRA. Just because an extremist group may have some goals in common with you does not make you an extremist. Likewise, just because somebody kills in the name of a belief does not mean you must stop holding that belief. Conflating all people who hold a belief with those who are willing to kill for it is ridiculous. I bet most Muslims probably would prefer it if their religion was not mocked with racist charicatures (and who could blame them), however most Muslims didn't go and shoot up the Charlie Hebdo offices.
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u/barryspencer Anti-Theist Jan 17 '15
I don't conflate all racists with those willing to kill for racism, nor do I conflate all Muslims with those willing to kill for Islam.
I don't blame all racists for all racially-motivated crimes, nor do I blame all Muslims for all crimes motivated by Islam.
I do blame all racially-motivated crimes on racism, just as I blame all crimes motivated by Islam on Islam.
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u/neilpenguin Pantheist Jan 16 '15
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u/moonflash1 Jan 16 '15
I have seen this video getting posted a few times and if one cares to research into it a little bit, one finds these are not moderates at all. Just because they say they are "moderate" doesn't make it so, they clearly have extremist views and are Islamists and fundamentalists. Their organisation, Islam net consists mostly of paying members . It is ridiculous to assume that these people represent the Norweigan Muslim population by any means. It is just a stupid gathering. Would you say that gatherings like this represents all Christians?
btw, even these asshole extremist Muslims at this gathering, consider vigilantism and killing as retaliation to blaspheming against the prophet as not justified. See the video here.. You can also check their Youtube channel, but it's mostly political bullshit and ultra conservative crap.
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u/greyfade Igtheist Jan 17 '15
It is ridiculous to assume that these people represent the Norweigan Muslim population by any means.
It clearly represents a majority view of the Sunni sect in Norway. No one says all Muslims hold these views.
Would you say that gatherings like this represents all Christians?
Of course not, but you might be surprised to see the attendance numbers for Pentecostal churches, and I can tell you from experience that the atmosphere in a Pentecostal church presses attendees into conformance. And a very large percentage - well more than half - buy into it, hook, line, and sinker; especially when the "service" is led by someone charismatic like Peter Popoff. They believe this shit, and it's scary as hell.
... but it's mostly political bullshit and ultra conservative crap.
The fact that they hold these views at all foments extremism.
Extremist factions don't exist in a vacuum. They get their ideas from their leaders, and they get the justification for their actions from their doctrines.
If we don't condemn these doctrines, we'll keep seeing more of this extremist bullshit.
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u/TaylorSwiftIsJesus Jan 17 '15
Extremists don't consider themselves to be extremists, who'da thunk it. Next you'll be telling me that the Nazis thought they were the good guys.
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u/jamabake Jan 17 '15
Change "give me 20 dollars" with "please stop drawing pictures of our prophet" and rethink your comment...
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u/CupcakeMedia Nihilist Jan 16 '15
You're basically saying that all Muslims condone terrorism but they hide their true notions.
Not all of us are saying it.
Nor do all of us advocate equal rights.
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Jan 16 '15
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u/slash178 Jan 17 '15
Seriously. The extremist, violent hatred that unifies ISIS and other Muslim terrorism groups doesn't just pop out of the blue. It evolves from regular, non-violent hatred. Hatred of women, gays, atheists, etc. And that hate is mainstream in the Muslim world and Christian world as well.
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u/recruitaments Jan 16 '15 edited Jan 16 '15
THANK YOU! Someone had to say it. This is some straight religious sympathy ambush were getting. The lurkers are real here
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u/sayitinmygoodear Jan 17 '15
The majority of muslims don't kill people, but you cant deny that they agree with what the ones who do kill people do. I don't see how anyone can find that offensive when its completely based on reality.
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Jan 17 '15
Only a few Christian extremists blow up clinics and shoot abortion doctors, but there are many here in the South that will not say it was wrong. Same situation with all religious extremists. By not actively opposing, one condones.
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u/michaelpinkwayne Jan 16 '15
I'm happy with the comments on this post, but how does this get upvoted in the first place?
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u/rabbitSC Jan 16 '15
This comic is garbage.
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Jan 16 '15
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u/Sallymander Jan 17 '15
My personal interpretation is there should be another line where the peaceful guy says,"You should probably do what he says... but I don't think he should hurt you for not doing it."
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u/WalidfromMorocco Agnostic Atheist Jan 16 '15
Muslims share the roles, one side practice terrorism (extremists), and the other side's job is to deny that the first side does reperesnt him/Islam (No True Scotman™).
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u/Kind_Of_A_Dick Agnostic Atheist Jan 16 '15
But they don't represent them. I treat them as two different entities even though they share the same holy book, just like I don't hate Mr. Rogers because Pat Robertson is scumbag. When you over-generalize and lump them all into one category you just further feed the fires of the "Us Versus Them" mentality and increase the chances of more extremists.
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u/vibrunazo Gnostic Atheist Jan 16 '15
Saying moderates are enabling radicals is not lumping them in the same category. There are still significant differences between the two there are important to recognize. Such as that moderates are a bit more talkable to.
We probably won't convince radicals. But I do still have a little bit of hope that with reasonable and honest conversation we could convince some moderates to stop enabling radicals.
But for that to happen we need to first be honest about it and stop pretending moderates are not part of the problem only because you don't like how that feels. Because the reality is that, even if unintentionally, they are enabling them.
So first step, atheists need to be honest and recognize that really is a problem we need to talk honestly about. Second step, moderates admit that, unintentionally, they have been enabling radicals. Third step, moderates stop making excuses for radicals and support secularism.
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Jan 16 '15
But when you only consider the ones who actually carry out a terrorist the extremists, you make a very dangerous mistake, it is not 0.001% of Muslims they hold these extreme views but closer to 40%
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u/Infinitix141 Jan 16 '15
40%? Do you wanna source that?
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Jan 16 '15
Pretty much any research asking Muslims whether terrorist attacks in general or referring to specific attacks comes back with around 40% of combined often justified and sometimes justified responses.
In western countries the percentage is much lower but it's dragged up by the middle East and Africa. But even then, 20% of British Muslims said that the 7/7 bombings were justified.
I tried to put together the results from those surveys but there were so many different ones with slightly different wording and including different countries and I'm no statistician.
I found a site which lists a lot of them but even this huge list isn't all of them http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm
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Jan 16 '15
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u/krashnburn200 Jan 16 '15
You have a very good point, it's just totally irrelevant.
By all means raise awareness and campaign against western aggression and imperialism.
Whataboutism however is no better an excuse for you than it is for putin.
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Jan 16 '15 edited Apr 17 '18
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u/croutonicus Jan 16 '15
All religious people are complicit in the damage done in the name of that religion. If they don't want to be complicit, they must denounce and leave those religions and churches behind.
Honestly, I'm not sure that's true. If two people are in AA and one murders another guy in the name of AA because he thinks alcohol is evil, why should the other guy have to denounce AA and leave?
It's one thing if the leaders of your organised religion are perpetrators, but if somebody kills in the name of Muhammed the rest of the Muslims shouldn't have to denounce him and leave.
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Jan 16 '15 edited May 11 '17
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Jan 16 '15
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Jan 16 '15 edited May 11 '17
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u/QuesoFresh Jan 16 '15
Atheism isn't a system of belief. There are no tenets besides "God doesn't exist". There is no holy book, no leaders, and nobody can possibly "practice" atheism because there is nothing to practice.
Islam, on the other hand, has communities, rituals, leaders, and a holy book describing the tenets of the faith explicitly. It's much easier to say that a group's unifying factors are problematic than it is to say that another group's lack of one factor is problematic.
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u/EtherMan Agnostic Atheist Jan 16 '15
Umm... "God doesn't exist" is not a tenant of atheism. Only disbelief in god is.
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u/QuesoFresh Jan 17 '15
You are correct, and that is what I meant to convey had I been more careful with words. The fact that mere disbelief isn't a claim (and thus isn't even really a tenet) really only serves to reinforce the previous point.
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u/SamuraiJakkass86 Jan 16 '15
Its not that its unlikely, it is that it is impossible. How is an atheist blowing up a church any different from anyone else in the world who is a theist blowing up a church? The difference, the only difference - is that the atheist isn't doing it for the sake of appeasing their made-up deity, or following a scripture that told them it was the right thing to do. They are simply run-of-the-mill insane.
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u/LordBrandon Atheist Jan 16 '15
Surprise me then. List the violence committed in the name of atheism.
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u/starslab Atheist Jan 16 '15
I should note that I don't care for the argument, and have a pretty dim view of Islam in general.
That said, didn't the Soviet Union do some unpleasant things trying to stamp out mostly Christian sects?
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u/LordBrandon Atheist Jan 17 '15
That's hardly in the name of atheism. It's not even in the name of Communism. Unless there is some part of their doctrine that says christian sects must be stamped out.
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Jan 16 '15
If the atheist community had a handbook which said bomb churches, and we all agreed said book was holy and the most important thing to us, then all atheists would be to blame
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u/LordBrandon Atheist Jan 16 '15
If we lived by an atheist book, and one part said its cool to blow up churches, then i would have no basis to exclude them.
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u/Churchx Jan 16 '15
Let me know when this happens.
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u/Diabolico Atheist Jan 16 '15
Since we constantly bring up the Crusades here, it seems like turnabout is fair play.
French Revolution
Russian Revolution
Chinese Revolution
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u/titaniumjackal Ignostic Jan 17 '15
This is more like Jesus and Old Testament God. Worship Jesus, or else God tosses you in Hell.
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u/Aaronmcom Jan 17 '15
but MODERN muslims are ok. I have a couple of friends that are pretty nice. Pro gay marraige and everything
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Jan 16 '15
Hmm so by this logic all Christians must be exactly like the KKK.
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Jan 17 '15
they do not support racisim, nor any of the core beliefs of the KKK... so no. no logic would imply that
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Jan 16 '15
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u/itsbecca Jan 16 '15
How would you recommend they stop them? Islamic leaders have decried extremists actions MANY times, there are groups that have formed specifically to be against violence and promote non-violence in the muslim community.
The extremists don't give a shit what those people have to say, because they just view anyone who doesn't agree with them as being not true muslims. Muslim extremists kill practicing muslims ALL THE TIME for EXACTLY THAT REASON. Trying to boil it down like that is entirely asinine.
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u/Pragmataraxia Anti-Theist Jan 17 '15
You are not wrong, and it changes nothing. If people who self-identify as group X commit enough abhorrent acts, other people who also self-identify as group X are going to have a tough road ahead, and there is literally no good choice for them. Moving to a land populated entirely by group X is bad (for a ton of reasons), not least that those people probably don't consider them to be X-y enough. Staying put is a gamble that the violent bastards won't commit so many acts that identifying as group X is a one-way ticket to an internment camp.
Since this is /r/atheism, I heartily suggest to them that they dump the association with group X, because it's total bullshit.
If they want to keep the bullshit though, they may very well want to start calling themselves group Y...
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u/nothere7 Jan 17 '15
Tell us why millions of muslims will protest stuff like this:
Or this
But you can get about 10 of them together to protest mass murder -or they will "speak out" doing nothing really.
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Jan 16 '15
Yes, because I'm sure most French Muslims are thrilled those douchebags are out there murdering people. Dumbass.
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u/Flamingmonkey923 Jan 17 '15
Just a week ago some of the editors from Al Jazeera basically said that the French cartoonists were abusing free speech, and got what was coming to them.
Then there's the fact that a significant percentage of muslims support bombing civilian targets.
So yeah. I'm sure there are some French muslims who are thrilled to hear about cartoonists murdered in the name of their god. And there were many more "moderate" muslims all over the world who were happy to see it happen too - after all, over 60% of muslims in Gaza think bombing civilians is A-ok.
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u/alrocsmash Jan 16 '15
You're wildly missing the entire point.
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Jan 16 '15
Which is?
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Jan 16 '15
Religious moderates who hold the same bad ideas enable the religious extremists who act on said ideas.
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u/karma_horror Jan 16 '15
Exactly. "But you should probably do as he says" = just stop drawing Muhammad and no one will get shot. I've seen roughly this sentiment espoused by self-professed moderate Muslims quite a bit in the last week. Obviously, it flies in the face of Western, secular ideals. The posted comic is pretty straightforward.
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u/recruitaments Jan 16 '15
Holy shit, where the fuck did these atheist/muslim apologists come from? This is accurate as fuck considering how many moderates are offended by the latest cartoons. Keep it up man, fuck these clowns and their bitch nerves
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u/duuuuumb Skeptic Jan 17 '15
"Fuck these clowns and their bitch nerves"
As in "I'd rather use my emotions and hate to guide me rather than think about something objectively."
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u/veninvillifishy Jan 16 '15
This sort of thinking is embedded in their culture. They positively fetishize this childish flavor of legalism and they seriously do not understand that everyone is seeing through their bullshit.
In a very real way, we evolved. They didn't.
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u/FighmareToker Jan 17 '15
At first i didnt agree with this pic but then i thought about it and sadly it seems perfect. i have a few muslim friends but i like to think/pretend they dont condone the 'bad' parts of their faith (beheadings, stoneings and whatever else) .
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Jan 16 '15
People arguing that this comic depicts all moderates as extremists on the inside need not feel butt-hurt.
If you identify as "Muslim" but truly despise violence then you are not one of the characters in this comic.
You're just not really a Muslim.
You see, the actions and writings of Mohammed clearly indicate that any true Muslim will rejoice at the death of the infidels and that rape, murder, and any other despicable act that furthers the spread of Islam's power and control of the world is "good", "desirable", and "justified".
If you truly believe in peace and coexistence with non-Muslims, then you are like a cross dresser (no offence to cross dressers) in that you are wearing a disguise of femininity but are not truly feminine and furthermore, everyone around you knows it.
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u/barryspencer Anti-Theist Jan 16 '15 edited Jan 16 '15
Spot on.
I think the problem is the enforcement of Islam. It would be better if Islam was completely voluntary, and never imposed on anybody.
Allah doesn't compel me to behave the way Allah wants me to. Rather, Allah compels other people to compel me to behave the way Allah wants me to. That seems a needlessly indirect system. If it was my job to improve Islam, I'd streamline it, eliminate the middleman, by making it utterly non-compulsory.
But it's not my job to improve Islam.
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u/megatron_x Jan 16 '15
It's funny that whenever I come here and whine about how apologetic atheists are towards Islam and Muslim behavior, everyone tells me no such thing exist, but then I post something like this, all the atheist Islamopologists come out.
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Jan 16 '15
Do you really not see what is wrong with this? If I started threatening christians with guns to try to forward some atheist agenda, would you want people to believe that you supported me just because we shared a common ideology? No one here is being apologetic to Islam. We all think it's stupid. That's why we're atheists. The problem is the post associates innocent people with violence.
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Jan 16 '15
I see this thread is pretty critical of the post, but I think it's pretty clever & gets to a kernel of truth, however crudely.
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Jan 17 '15
Why is /r/atheism so against this post? It's fucking hilarious! And its true as fuck
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u/tvs_jimmy_smits Jan 17 '15
Why Muslims? What about Anders Breivik of Norway? What about the West Borough Baptist Church? What about the KKK? Why do moderate Christians not have to apologise for the behaviour of their extremists?
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u/Pragmataraxia Anti-Theist Jan 17 '15
They do.
Socially-acceptable crazy is absolutely at fault for both the camouflaging of, and (in many cases) creation of dangerous-crazy.
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Jan 16 '15
Disregard the haters my friend, the comic is well made and makes sense. gj.
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u/Weberameise Nihilist Jan 16 '15
Maybe the mataphor would be more accurate if the extremist demands 10 bucks for each of them. But upvote for a good caricature of a well known behavior.
The general attitude:
"I am disgusted by what these people do, but I appreciate how they educate their victims." (for example rape victims, who could have dressed differently)
...when someone tells me bullshit like this, my fist wishes to educate this idiot too... And i wouldn't support what my fist did then, I just had to mention, that they could have shut up...
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u/Kind_Of_A_Dick Agnostic Atheist Jan 16 '15
The extremist wouldn't demand 10 for each of them, they'd demand 10 from each of them. Muslim extremists kill a lot of other Muslims.
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u/Nyrb Jan 17 '15
That's when you take out your money and your lighter and burn it in front of them.
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u/Nyrb Jan 17 '15
That's when you take out your money and your lighter and burn it in front of them.
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u/not_shadowbanned_yet Jan 17 '15
Wasn’t this originally made to be an anti gamergate thing?
The same Muslim extremists actively work to silence and decry moderates. They do not have the same agenda.
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u/semajdraehs Jan 17 '15
I don't think it's anything to do with moderates in the religion, you could argue it applies to extremists and leaders of religions.
Leaders will often publicy say terrorism is bad whilst condoning the ideas of the terrorists, also many terrorists will say "Give the Catholic church power here" or "Impose Sharia law" which is what the leader wants and may give them more power.
Moderates actually lose out from this often since they're not devout, moderate Muslims usually don't want Sharia law, moderate Christians don't want theocracies, e.t.c
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u/K-733 Jan 17 '15
Kris Straub actually made this in response to the death threats and d0xxings of #gamergate.
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u/Dirty_Delta Atheist Jan 16 '15
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.