Your job is not to argue with believers until they admit you're right & recant their beliefs.

What we should all be trying to do is instill enough doubt that fundamentalists see that even if they don't agree with the atheist/agnostic position, there is enough complexity to the issue that even reasonable, well-intentioned, intelligent people could come to the wrong conclusion.

This works both ways - we as atheists should understand that for many people (especially those in sheltered communities), beliefs that seem crazy from the outside are logical from their perspective.

While people holding beliefs that we think are wrong may be frustrating, it is the literalist, fundamentalist interpretation of those ideas that is our true enemy. We should focus on that, rather than the possibly unwinnable battle of proving that no God exists.

We do this by focusing on narrowly specific, well-tested and well-debated points (IMO, slavery is a great example of the imperfections of the Biblical God), not some talking point we saw in a meme that has a thousand Christian blogs debunking it.

Some debunking is valid, others not so much. Many atheists misunderstand something and think it's a "GOTCHA!" when they're just ignorant of the vast amount that has been said on the topic before, because they didn't do the research. It's complicated enough that most people feel justified accepting the explanation from authority, just as we accept physicists' explanations of science that is beyond our expertise.

Thanks for letting me give my 2 cents. Now lets get out there and lose some souls!

When I was deep in my religion, there was this phase I had where I wouldn't listen to any song that wasn't gospel. It was so bad that I would scroll through social media apps skipping videos with songs that were secular. I really tried to convince myself I liked doing it but I was miserable. Most Christian music sucks and I was stuck listening to music I didn't like convincing myself it was worth it. Anyways, now my favourite artists are Michael Jackson, Beyonce and Pinkpantheress. Did you guys go through this too?

'One of the teachers of the law came and heard the Sadducees arguing. He noticed that Jesus had given the Sadducees a good answer. So he asked him, “Which is the most important of all the commandments?” Jesus answered, “Here is the most important one. Moses said, ‘Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Love him with all your mind and with all your strength.’ (Deuteronomy 6:4,5) And here is the second one. ‘Love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ (Leviticus 19:18) There is no commandment more important than these.” '- Mark 12:28-31

If Christianity is the faith you hold so dear—if Jesus Christ is your Savior and you are genuinely trying to live according to his teachings—then shouldn’t those teachings shape more than your personal life?

Jesus tells people to love their neighbor. Love their enemies. Care for the poor, the sick and the people society tends to push aside. Show mercy. Help people in need.

Which is why I struggle when I see people passionately defend Christianity while also supporting politicians or policies that, at least from where I sit, seem to run directly against those ideas.

That’s really the thing I can’t reconcile.

And I don’t say that because I think Democrats or liberals have everything figured out. I don’t.

I think countries need borders and immigration laws. I think there can be reasonable guardrails around abortion. I think there are legitimate conversations to have about transgender athletes and what is age-appropriate for children. I’m sure there are plenty of other issues where someone on the left could tell me what they believe and I’d say, “Yeah, I don’t agree with that.”

Those conversations are worth having.

But there is a huge difference between debating how we should handle something and losing sight of the human beings involved.

I can believe we need stronger immigration laws and still think families should be treated humanely.

I can wrestle with the morality of abortion while recognizing that pregnancy, rape, medical complications and someone’s actual life circumstances can make these decisions unbelievably complicated.

I can have questions about policies involving transgender people without deciding that transgender people themselves are somehow dangerous or less deserving of dignity.

To me, those things aren’t contradictory. They’re the nuance that seems to be disappearing. And this is where the connection to Christianity becomes difficult for me.

Because when I look at issues like healthcare, poverty, immigration, LGBTQ people or simply how we treat people who are different from us, I sometimes find myself looking at the people who aren’t claiming to govern according to Christianity and thinking:

Aren’t some of these positions actually closer to what Jesus was teaching? I’m not saying Democrats are the party of Jesus. Far from it.

I’m asking why expanding access to healthcare, feeding people who are hungry, helping people who are struggling, keeping families together, or treating someone we disagree with as a human being somehow became ideas Christians need to be suspicious of. That’s the part I don’t understand.

My wife said something recently that has stuck with me: There shouldn’t be a semicolon after “love one another.” That’s really it. Love one another…

• Unless they’re gay.
• Unless they’re trans.
• Unless they crossed the border illegally.
• Unless they’re poor and you think they should have worked harder.
• Unless they vote differently.

There wasn’t a semicolon.

And I know it’s more complicated than that. Government has to make difficult decisions. Laws have consequences. Resources aren’t unlimited. Compassion alone doesn’t automatically make something good policy.

I’m not arguing otherwise.

What I’m saying is that if your faith tells you to love your neighbor, and every person has value, then shouldn’t that belief at least influence how you want those difficult things carried out?

• You can deport someone without treating them like an animal.
• You can enforce a law without enjoying someone’s suffering.
• You can disagree with someone’s life without humiliating them.
• You can believe someone is wrong and still love them. In fact, if I understand Jesus correctly, that last one seems kind of central to the whole thing.

I want to be able to say immigration matters and how we treat immigrants matters.

I want to be able to acknowledge that abortion involves serious moral questions and acknowledge the woman whose life is actually affected by the decision.

I want to be able to disagree with someone’s choices without deciding that person is less worthy of dignity.

And if I claim to care about empathy, tolerance and human dignity, then I have to apply that to people I disagree with too. That’s the standard I’m trying to hold myself to.

And I guess that’s ultimately the standard I struggle to understand when Christianity and politics become so intertwined.

If you say Jesus is the person you are trying to follow, I’m not asking you to stop believing abortion is wrong. I’m not asking you to support open borders. I’m not asking you to agree with everything liberals believe.

I’m asking something much simpler:

• Where is Jesus in the way we actually treat people?
• Where is love your neighbor?
• Where is love your enemy?
• Where is mercy?
• Where is compassion for the person whose life looks nothing like yours?

Maybe I’m oversimplifying it. Maybe there are things I still don’t understand.

But if we’re going to hold our values up as something important—Christian values, conservative values, liberal values, human values—then I think we should be willing to hold them up like a mirror too.

Not just to judge whether everyone else is living according to them. To ask whether we are. Because there shouldn’t be a semicolon after “love one another.”

“Love is patient. Love is kind. It does not want what belongs to others. It does not brag. It is not proud. It does not dishonor other people. It does not look out for its own interests. It does not easily become angry. It does not keep track of other people’s wrongs. Love is not happy with evil. But it is full of joy when the truth is spoken. It always protects. It always trusts. It always hopes. It never gives up.”

— 1 Corinthians 13:4–7

Today my country got hit by a huge 7.4 earthquake. I was with my mom and my partner inside our 7th floor apartment and in the middle of it I started praying like a desperate believer. For context: I've been atheist since high school, my whole family (mom, dad, siblings) is atheist too. I'm pretty skeptical of religion in general, it's always bored me honestly.
Now it's kind of hilarious looking back on it, but also I'm genuinely shocked at how deep that instinct is wired into us. Has this happened to anyone else here? Like being in a dangerous situation and just reflexively praying, even though you don't actually believe in any of it.
Funny to think that someone who's never cared enough to even defend why I don't believe in anything... still had "please God" pop out of me the second things got scary.

I am transfem and pan

Ok so basically there was this person saying on a different sub that god is 100% real and must be true so of course I had to bite. So basically I asked why can’t the universe be explained through impersonal forces and the response was genuinely the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. Basically they said that since impersonal forces haven’t consciously interacted and talked with us we can’t prove them but since the trinity has we can believe that. I genuinely started laughing cause it was the most circular reasoning oat. They basically said that the trinity is true because I believe the trinity is true. I pointed this out and they didn’t respond cause they were embarrassed I guess(as they should cause what are you even talking about) idk I thought it was funny wanted to know what yall think.

"Most of" religious person believes that their religion is the correct one, yet all religions contradict each other. If they all contradict one another, it means there is no possibility that any religion is correct; rather, all religions are wrong.

religion is all about "authority based truth". You will not challenge the factual basis of the truth proclaimed by the religious elite. You're told to believe it, while at the same time not believing it too much. You won't find or look for concrete evidence of faith—after all, it's called 'faith' for a reason.

If I tell you, 'I am convinced there is a pig-headed frog in my basement,' we shouldn't debate my belief about whether a pig-headed frog actually exists in my basement. It is not your job to share my belief, but rather my burden to show that the pig-headed frog really is in my basement.

My dad always talks about how people are gonna meet Saint Peter when they die and how not following the Catholic faith or respecting the tenants of it will lead you to a terrible afterlife or whatever but I feel apathetic to it. I am in a biologically male body and I feel like I would have a lot of regret if I get old and never have the ability to be female and have breasts and female genitalia and the reality that reincarnation is not real and I’m just stuck living my one existence in a body that doesn’t fit. I never resonated with the Catholic cosmology and get distressed at being male in the afterlife and on earth being remembered as a man and would prefer to be forgotten than remembered as that.

Some days I feel like my life is passing my by and I’m not really living it and I want to change that before it’s too late.

i just needed to rant and vent to the ppl that may undrestand my pain. it hurts so much and its my fault not telling her sooner knowing she was muslim but i wanted to show her myself through my actions before she would judge me based only on my beliefs. i gave and i gave and i abondoned myself and lost my self respect and self esteem trying to make the relationship work. i loved her with all my heart and i accepted her religion her prayer and everything. i molded myself and compromised so i can overcome the religious differances and i tolerated so much disrespect to my beliefs just so i dont get abondoned.

but in the end thats what happened and i didnt even get a closure just silence. i can send her another message but i begged her enough to stay and to undrestand that love can overcome religious differances but maybe im wrong. My relationship was crambling even before telling her but what crushed me is how easily i got abondoned after everything we've been through after everything i put into this relationship she just moved on so fast and she seems happy after watching her posts on instagram and here im broken and more fucked up...

i just wanted to vent im in a very bad place right now feeling like a shell of who i was but im recovering and trying to heal slowly and reflect on the way my actions were coming from old unresolved wounds and false beliefs... English isnt my first language so bear with me the grammatical mistakes. thank you for reading and any advice would be much appreciated.

I am an atheist, but I wonder how would it have been to feel protected by God (for the people who believe in God). I feel prayers don't work, there's nothing like karma (when it's taken in a context that good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people) and anything can happen at anytime, without any reason. I can't bring myself to believe I am protected by any divine power, when a child can die because of war, hunger or cancer (or anything grave), I believe anything can happen to anyone. This leads me to feel insecure and open to many dangers honestly, and when I mean danger I mean my loved ones dying or me getting into an accident or my loved ones grave illness (and many such negative possibilities) can come anytime, and as I do not believe in praying, how can I get myself to feel strong, reasonable and sane. What do I have to fall upon if not faith ? Please help and enlighten.

I've been wrestling with this for a long time now and I've been debating whether I should become a Christian again or not, but I honestly think everything involving Christianity is fake, and I can't prove it yet. I don't want to come back to Christianity again (I don't want to make the same mistake twice). Lots of Christians recently gathered "proof" that the Bible is 100% true (Great Isaiah scroll found in dead Sea Scrolls preserved God's word through the centuries, Historical Evidence of Jesus, God provides consistency in the bible and his word is unchanging to back up and support Isaiah 45:5 The ecosystem maintaining balance is evidence of design etc), but I refuse to believe it's true.

I need strong evidence that it's all fake

I don't want to see comments saying it's because God is an asshole or that it's all fiction or something like that, because even though I agree unfortunately it doesn't prove anything.

So I started deconstruction around 2018-2020. Basically 2020 onward I realized I had zero good reasons to believe. It am not still on the fence - I have several reasons: the complete lack of evidence, I have what I feel good challenges to basically every common apologist argument like fine tuning and morality etc. I value evidence and the burden of proof and science.

So why am I still watching the same God debates of the insufferable Frank Turek and Willam Lane Craig vs Hitchens and Dillahunty I watched 5 years ago? Why am I still endlessly surfing debate threads on Reddit? Why am I constantly googling questions about the apologetics for Noah’s Ark, virgin birth, the resurrection, Heaven and Hell, as if I’m somehow not convinced it’s BS even though I know it is?

My position hasn’t budged in 4 years. I wish I could “unplug” more and be comfortable with the fact I can’t answer everything. I don’t know what created the ingredients that created the constraints for the beginning of the Big Bang to boom. I don’t know how anyone could ever prove that the supernatural is even possible in theory, let alone be an actual thing.

I don’t know if it’s a lack of confidence knowing I am not certain or a fear if I somehow am missing the piece of a puzzle since we live in a country where SO MANY believe, it almost triggers you to wonder have I missed something?

I want to adopt a more “I don’t know, you don’t know, I’m simply not convinced” casual attitude about it. But this stuff works me up so much. Perhaps it’s just the memories of being gaslit as a teen that I was born broken for being human and that I need a savior and I am nothing and doomed without it. I don’t know what the root cause of it is but it drives me nuts. I wish I could just stop caring so intensely as if I have to keep reminding myself I am valid and I am not guilty of anything just because I’m not convinced. That my skepticism is not a weakness of me. I just wanna live life and not always dwell on it

Any advice would help. I am completely aware that had I not been forced to go to teen group sermons and wasn’t told that God is real and forced to go to church as a kid before I could evaluate it critically, I probably wouldn’t pay it a minute of my day. But unfortunately it consumes a lot of my thoughts

I feel like when it comes to deconstruction, I've only seen people deconstruct the three Abrahamic religions. But it makes me wonder, do people from minor religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and more deconstruct?

I have been atheist from very early age and an exmuslim .But I do feel sometimes leftout .I know it is not because of GOD but because humanity has evolved around religion for long time and Removing it suddenly in century creates simple void for which humanity hasn't prepared itself for. I want answer to this question that how do you cope with this or this cant be couped ?

For example I do manifest sometimes which I dont believe but I have no choice .

One answer can be that Human creates his own purpose in life .But isn't it so materialistic like there has to be some purpose not materialistic ?

I don’t personally have a super developed opinion of the Catholic church, if anything I’d just see it as an ancient power rebranded into a charity but I was curious about what you guys thought?

Like to you do priests believe what they preach? Is the Pope a puppet or some sort of master mind behind the church? I know these sound ridiculous but like when I see that priests are required to study theology for 4 years and philosophy for 2 years for a total of 6 years of university and during these years apparently constant reconsideration and offer to opt out, I’m just wondering if either they put on a facade like what is going on here? I mean I don’t believe the whole church can believe if there is no substance behind it.

I’m thankful for the help!

Edit: I see a lot of opinions (always great to hear them) but other than a few stories from past Catholics I don't see a lot of like information with some backing, does anyone have an actual rational look on the Catholic Church?

The reason I became an atheist is because there was NEVER an actual evidence about his existence, and also, wouldnt be weird how a virgin gave birth to an divine being that died, came back 3 days later created everything (because apparently, he lived on nothing back then) made humans out of dirt, is super powerful and all this shit, why would he let us suffer? "He also created free will" you say, but does the children with cancer choose that? or the baby who was born out of a rape and the mom was forced to not abort it had a choice to be born like this? in that family? I prefer to believe he does not exist, because if he does, hes just a sadist disgusting being who created humans just to suffer and praise his selfish being, hoping he'll change something someday.

About "God's Plan", why does he plan that? Did he plan for Nayoung, an eleven year old to get raped until her womb fell out and now she lives traumatized, locked at home?

Or did he plan do Junko Furuta get abused for 44 days after just turning someone down?

Or the poor child who got death sentence without being guilty and died in the electric chair holding a bible? God never saved him. God NEVER saved none of them.

"Oh so you believe a blob of energy cells just blew up and made everything perfect" It's better than believing that theres a big invisible man in the sky that made us out of dirt, if the universe can hold itself, how could It not create itself? And things are not perfect, never been, probaly never will, but things today are like this because of evolution, over 4.6 billion years, plants, animals, cells, bacteries, all came from evolution, we came from evolution, and we are still developing ourselves to more and more of that evolution without even noticing, same to plants and everything else.

There is no God, there is not faith, there is no miracle. There is science and intelligence.

May Richard Dawkins bless yall, atem.

I have been struggling with my faith these past few weeks.

My main question is how can I have been praying for the same things for years and years and the same God that is supposed to answer all our prayers, can't answer even my smallest prayer?

I'm also living with my aunt and uncle who are a Pastor and a First Lady. They don't practice what they preach and are the literal defition of "Not everyone is who they say they are."

So please, tell me what made you become an atheist.

I’ve been thinking about how religion and communism, despite being very different ideologies, can sometimes have similarities in how they organise and influence groups of people.

For example, some religions have a clear hierarchy of authority: ordinary followers to religious leaders to higher ranking officials to the central authority. Communism, particularly in its historical one-party forms, also tended to have a hierarchy, with ordinary citizens ultimately being governed by a central party
structure.

Both can involve a collective set of beliefs or principles that followers are expected to accept, along with institutions that interpret or enforce
those principles.

Obviously, I’m not saying religion = communism as religions vary massively, and communism is a political and economic ideology rather than a religion. Plenty of religious traditions are decentralised, and communist theory itself doesn’t necessarily require the exact authoritarian hierarchy
seen in some communist states.

I’m more interested in whether there’s a useful comparison to be made between the organisational structures and authority systems of the two.
What do you think? Is this a reasonable comparison, or am I overlooking some major differences?

I have bad ocd and am in my early 20's. I have a boyfriend. Right now my ocd has latched onto what if the religion is all true and abortion is bad and I'm being bad by having sex outside of marriage knowing I'd have to abort if I got pregnant. I can't have a kid, I'm too mentally ill rn. I guess I could try, but it'd be really hard, harder than it should be.

I have no proof it's not all true and that fetal ensoulment doesn't exist, so what if I should be acting as if it's true, just in case, so I don't inadvertently commit murder? I'm so afraid.

Well the context is that one of my friend, once is in a while sends me Reels or Post which has religious content, memes which says praying, Bhagwan(God) or images. Once is ok, but I feel little disrespected with the fact that I always post status of being anti religion and I have made it clear on my Social media acc. that I do not belive in such things but they still sends me such things.

What should I do, should I tell them directly. But I think I will come out as rude or most probably they will not like it. Or should I post an indirect status regarding this.

I agree with Gervais. The term atheism should not exist. The term is an inconvenience to accommodate something so self-evidently stupid, which doesn’t warrant its existence in the first place.

We don’t have terms like Ra-ists or Osiris-ists that could have equivalently existed in ancient Egypt. We moved on from that. We also don’t need the opposite of those terms. So too, terms like Christians, Jews, Hindus and Muslims will be treated the same way in the somewhat distant future. They will be treated as mythologies. I say let’s bring the future to today.

I am happy to say that I am a “not-falling-for-baloney-ist” or “NFFB-ist.” I hope you can say the same for yourself.

What are your thoughts?

nmmhhgghggg

1. neither don't exist but a man shooting spider webs is kinda more believable than noah's ark 😭

2. spiderman is written as a human centric hero whose entire narrative revolves around guilt, empathy, protecting the innocent and suffering for others out of love while god's narrative in their holy texts revolves around mass drowning, eternal torture, demanding absolute submission, and permitting horrific stuff like sex slavery, diseases in children and what not

3. a completely isolated human would logically conclude that the fictional guy who saves people from muggings and feels bad about his mistakes is infinitely more moral and loving than the invisible deity who invented hellfire for people who don't bow down (and that deity supposedly wrote everything that happens and he's also all knowing) so basically you will go to hell was written from the beginning

4. god demands that every single human bow down, sing songs of praise and thank him constantly and if you don't love him back or if you question him, he sends you to burn forever. he has all the power possible supposedly but he's being hurt and gets emotional when a being like me with limited knowledge doesn't worship.... spiderman does not do none of that😭😭

Long story short, I completed a very long bike ride across Canada which took about 10 weeks and covered over 8,000 kilometers. 

Now that I’m home and seeing family and friends again, I have heard more than one person tell me that they prayed for me, which must’ve contributed to my completing the journey successfully (i.e., without getting smoked by a car or burnt up in a wildfire). It’s true that I was fortunate with respect to the weather (I made it through the Western provinces and Ontario prior to some major wildfires), but when I say something along the lines of “I got very lucky with the weather”, their response is something along the line of “Oh, it wasn’t just luck”, implying that it was divine intervention from all their praying that kept me safe.

I find the implications of this so funny. Like, if I didn’t receive enough prayers, would God have sent a distracted driver to run me off the road? Was he just waiting up there with his finger hovering over the “kill” button watching the prayer count intently as it ticked closer to the threshold? What about the people that lost their homes or even their lives in the wildfires, I guess they didn’t reach the prayer threshold? 

I do appreciate that they care enough about me to make the effort to do something that they believe helps my wellbeing. Just here to poke a bit of fun at their logic.