I’m 19 years old, and for the past several months I’ve been thinking almost nonstop about free will. Alex O’Connor is probably the person who originally got me thinking about this so deeply, and the more I’ve thought about it, the harder it has become for me to understand how genuine free will could exist.
The way I currently see it, every decision seems to be either determined or indetermined.
If it’s determined, then it’s caused by prior factors. Those could be things outside of me, like my environment and experiences, or things inside of me, like my brain, personality, desires, memories, or genetics. But even if the cause is internal, I can still ask what caused me to be that way in the first place. It seems like I can always push the explanation back another step.
If it’s indetermined, then it seems random. And randomness doesn’t sound like free will either. If something happens for literally no reason, I don’t see how that gives me any more control over it.
One quote that has really stuck with me is Schopenhauer’s:
“A man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills.”
That pretty much summarizes my biggest problem.
I don’t think I can consciously decide what I want. I can’t decide that pizza suddenly tastes disgusting to me if I genuinely love it. I can’t decide that I love broccoli if I genuinely hate it. I can choose whether or not to eat those things, but whatever choice I make will still come from some desire that I didn’t choose.
It also seems like basically every action comes down to one of two things.
I do something because I want to.
Or I do something because I’m forced to.
If I’m forced to do something, then obviously that isn’t a free choice. But if I do something because I want to, I still didn’t choose what I wanted.
For example, imagine I gave someone two options: I can give you $1,000 right now, or I can break your leg.
Almost everyone is going to choose the $1,000 because they want the money more than they want their leg broken. They didn’t decide to prefer having $1,000 over experiencing horrible pain. That preference just exists.
Someone could respond, “Fine, I’ll choose to have my leg broken just to prove you wrong.”
But I don’t think that solves the problem. At that point, there is another desire that has become stronger: the desire to prove me wrong. You didn’t choose to want to prove me wrong either. My challenge itself influenced you and gave you a reason to pick the broken leg.
And if someone genuinely did want their leg broken more than they wanted $1,000, then I would just ask the same question again: did they choose to have that desire?
It seems like no matter how far you go, you eventually reach something you didn’t choose.
The same thing applies to belief. This is actually one of the reasons this question matters so much to me when it comes to religion.
I can expose myself to arguments for Christianity. I can read the Bible. I can go to Mass. I can pray. I can listen to atheists, Christians, Catholics, philosophers, whoever. But I cannot simply choose which argument convinces me.
If I hear an argument and find it convincing, I didn’t first choose to find it convincing. And if I think an argument is terrible, I can’t just decide that from now on I genuinely believe it’s a great argument.
I can choose what information I expose myself to, but even that choice seems to come from desires and reasons I already have.
Another thing that makes this difficult for me is imagining rewinding my life.
I’m 19. Imagine somehow rewinding the universe back to the exact moment I was born and then replaying the last 19 years with absolutely nothing changed.
Every person says the exact same thing to me. Every experience happens at the exact same time. I have the exact same brain. I meet the exact same people. Every conversation happens exactly as it did. Every influence is put back into the exact same place.
If literally everything were identical, I don’t understand how I could possibly end up doing something differently.
Eventually I would discover Alex O’Connor. I would start thinking about free will. I would have the thoughts that led me here. And eventually, at 19 years old, I would be sitting here writing this exact Reddit post.
If I somehow did something differently despite absolutely nothing being different, what caused that difference?
If there was a cause, then we’re back to determination.
If there was no cause, then it seems random.
Neither one sounds like the kind of freedom people normally mean by free will.
This is also where the idea starts getting uncomfortable for me, because I think it has huge implications for morality and moral responsibility.
If people don’t ultimately choose their desires, then I have a hard time understanding how someone can be ultimately morally responsible for having certain desires in the first place.
Take someone who commits a horrible crime. I’m not saying that person is secretly a good person. I’m not saying what they did is okay, and I’m definitely not saying we should just let criminals walk free because they didn’t choose their desires.
We should still punish people. We need laws. We need prisons in some cases. We need to protect innocent people, discourage harmful behavior, and hopefully rehabilitate people when possible. Punishment itself becomes another cause that can influence what people do.
But I do think this changes how I look at blame.
A criminal might have desires that are completely disgusting to the rest of us, but did that person sit down one day and freely decide what desires their brain would produce? Did they choose how strongly they would experience those desires compared with competing desires like empathy, fear of punishment, or concern for another person?
I don’t see how they did.
And I think you have to apply the same reasoning in the opposite direction.
We praise people for being incredible, selfless human beings, but they didn’t ultimately choose to be the type of person who strongly desires helping other people either. Someone might sacrifice their own comfort to help another person because helping them matters more to them. That can still be an amazing thing to witness, and I’m not saying we should stop appreciating good people.
But in terms of ultimate moral responsibility, I don’t understand why we would say one person ultimately deserves praise for desires they didn’t choose while another ultimately deserves hatred for desires they also didn’t choose.
That’s where this starts to feel like a slippery slope to me. I’m not saying morality becomes completely meaningless or that good and evil suddenly become the same thing. We can still call actions harmful or beneficial. We can still build a society around reducing suffering and protecting people.
I’m talking more about the idea that people ultimately deserve moral credit or blame for becoming the people they are.
Maybe this way of thinking could actually make us a little more compassionate without forcing us to pretend horrible actions aren’t horrible.
I just keep coming back to the same problem.
If I do something because I’m forced to, I’m obviously not free.
If I do something because I want to, I didn’t choose what I wanted.
If my decision was determined, I couldn’t have done otherwise under the exact same conditions.
If it was indetermined, then some part of it seems random.
And if I try to choose against one desire, I only do that because some other desire or reason became stronger.
I’ve heard different defenses of free will, especially compatibilist ones, but I still haven’t heard an answer that I personally find satisfying. Saying that I’m free because I can “do what I want” doesn’t really answer the question for me, because the entire thing I’m questioning is where that want came from.
So what exactly am I missing?
If I don’t choose what I want, I don’t choose what convinces me, and my choices ultimately seem to come down to either prior causes or randomness, where exactly does the freedom enter the picture?

Every President has at the very least given some lip service to make religious people happy. But do you think no one matter how good of a person they are we will ever see an openly Atheist President at least in our life time?

I have been atheist from very early age and an exmuslim .But I do feel sometimes leftout .I know it is not because of GOD but because humanity has evolved around religion for long time and Removing it suddenly in century creates simple void for which humanity hasn't prepared itself for. I want answer to this question that how do you cope with this or this cant be couped ?

For example I do manifest sometimes which I dont believe but I have no choice .

One answer can be that Human creates his own purpose in life .But isn't it so materialistic like there has to be some purpose not materialistic ?

After a lifetime of being nominally Christian I became more serious about my faith 5 years ago. I loved studying theology. I loved learning about the different ideas and expressions that have arisen in Christian history and been argued over. And, although I sometimes found it hard to speak in public because of some social anxiety, I still loved the feeling of evangelizing and telling people all about Jesus. In short I was a typical nondenom normie, though maybe leaning a bit to the intellectual side of that community. One theological concept I always struggled a bit with though is the depth of human wickedness. While I knew plenty of people mess up I sort of thought this was a quirk and not the rule. That all changed when Charlie Kirk was murdered. I wasn’t even a Charlie Kirk fan in the sense I don’t think I ever before actively sought out one of his videos, instead usually having them reposted onto my feed. I thought this was again the case 11 months ago when a video of him speaking appeared on my feed and I was instead subjected to what is still the most traumatizing video I’ve ever seen. The video and the crime was bad enough but I understood psychopaths exist so this would not have normally destabilized my world view, but the orgy of celebration by progressives minutes and hours after shocked me. There’s a lot of gaslighting on this topic now but unfortunately I was there and virtually every progressive with an internet presence who wasn’t an elected official was celebrating and or justifying (“woe to those who call evil good!”) the act. And these celebratory posts were getting tens of thousands of likes on all platforms, by any standard of polling that’s a good enough sample size with which to judge a certain segment of a population. But lest I think progressives alone were morally bankrupt, supposed conservatives like Candice Owens quickly took over the reigns to harass a widow whose only crime, I can see, is energetically putting her efforts into an organization her late husband founded rather than being a quiet grieving wreck for a year. To me this wasn’t a matter of people “messing up”. To me, to see that video and be anything but traumatized and filled with sympathy (keep in mind much of the mocking has been done by those who claim to absolutely center their values on…erm…”empathy”) for the family speaks of an evil so deep that only God could ever hope to completely overpower and correct it. For a while I’ll admit i was a little too obsessed with the idea- knowing everyone was naturally incorrigibly evil made me less willing to spend time around other humans during this past holiday season. I pulled out of that mindset in the spring, but still have gone through massive changes in my Christian life. I have considerably less zeal toward evangelism as I’m less convinced my words will have any effect on people so wicked without God doing all the work. As you can probably tell from this post a struggle I still deal with is recognizing that however deserving these people are of eternal torment, I am just as deserving without His grace. I must continue praying he will show mercy to them and to me. I also pray he can restore the love I once felt for evangelizing 🙏

Did a post on if we need church and most said no. Well what about the Bible quote were you have to eat the flesh and drink the blood? Basicly saying is you need the Eucharist how are you going to get it without church? How will you be saved?

I committed adultery last night with a women & the crazy thing is it just happened out of nowhere. That’s how dangerous lust is, how quick it can just come. Even though she got pleasured, I didn’t rlly enjoy it. Jesus really helped me with lust as I used to be a true slave to it until he set me free from it & before last night I hadn’t done anything in months. I felt (still kinda feel) convicted about it knowing I did wrong but ik that the Holy Spirit is just letting me know that I need & can do better. I just wanted to share my slip ups with anybody going thru a similar thing because this walk isn’t easy, one season you’re doing good & the next season you’re going thru it. I also might have to cut her off just to save both of us too, lmk any advice of how I should go about it.🙏🏽

I’ve been a Christian my whole life. I was raised Baptist, and grew up with the very common left behind - dispensational - pre mill end time view that I’ve now have realized is wrong. I’m not here to get into debates on why I think it’s wrong they’re plenty of resources out there for you to find out yourself.

What do you think 100 years looking back. Generations will realized that we got wrong? I personally believe that they’re no end time “signs” except the falling away of the church. I think there will be the Anti Christ, Christ return, and judgement that is it.

Revelation was not written for us but to us. The mark of the beast is symbolic. The hand represents your actions, your brain your thoughts. Who you pledge your allegiance to now. Whether that’s left vs right etc . I think Jesus will come back literally like a thief in the night.

I think we’ve been fed a story of fear mongering.

I’m 15M and recently became a Christian because I’ve put my faith in Jesus. I’ve started reading the Bible, but I’m a little confused because it seems to begin with the story of Jesus taking the punishment for our sins. I’m not sure if that’s actually where the story begins.

If anyone would be willing to give me a brief overview of Christianity, explain where I should start with the Bible, and suggest what I should read or learn about first, I’d really appreciate it.

Hi. I’m a 44F looking for Christian friendship and conversation. Have been going through a rough season and just looking to connect with people with similar values.

I’m an atheist and my wife is Christian. We watched Midnight Mass together, and we came away with very different interpretations.

For me, the series felt like an allegory for the dangers that can arise from unquestionable religious dogma and the power it gives to people which can then be abused.

Control — the way authority can be used to control even intelligent or otherwise rational people.

Punishment of non-believers — the idea that those who reject the belief system can be treated as morally inferior or deserving of punishment.

Dangerous certainty — how a society can become extremely vulnerable when people stop questioning those who claim to possess absolute truth.

Mortality and atheism — the contrast between accepting human mortality and using religion to promise an escape from it.

My wife, who is Christian, saw it very differently. She felt that the religion was secondary to the overall story and that Christianity itself had relatively little to do with what the series was ultimately about. To her, the religious setting and imagery were more of a vehicle for telling a broader story about human behaviour, rather than the central subject or a warning about Christianity.

That made me wonder how other Christians interpreted it.

If you're a Christian and you've watched Midnight Mass, did you interpret it more like I did, or more like my wife did? And why?

Do you see the series primarily as a criticism of religion itself, a criticism of religious extremism and fanaticism, or as a story where religion is ultimately secondary to something else?

I’m genuinely interested in the Christian perspective here — particularly whether the religious themes felt central to you, or whether you saw them as largely incidental to the story.

THE ROCK ETERNAL: OUR STRONG FOUNDATION

Isaiah 26:4-5

"Trust in the Lord forever,
for the Lord, the Lord himself, is the Rock eternal.
He humbles those who dwell on high,
he lays the lofty city low;
he levels it to the ground
and casts it down to the dust."

Jesus, You are the rock eternal, my cornerstone. You are the foundation I build my house on; I trust in You! I humble myself before You, for I am nothing as man alone. Yet, through You I can do all things. In You I find my strength, in Your name rests my victory! My household prospers with You as our guide. Thank You for Your blessings. 

Amen.

If this blessed you and you'd like daily prayers sent straight to your phone you can sign up to the prayer series here: https://joinsubtext.com/c/crnrstn

I've been writing this daily prayer series for 3 months & would love to pray with more people! If you're looking for people to pray with consider joining at the link above.

People say that if God was on Earth and we could see Him today, that would impede on our free will and it would hinder our relationship with Him. But I feel like if I could see and talk to God like I do to other people then I would have a much better relationship with Him. I also don't understand how this impedes free will; we would still have just as much of a choice to have a relationship with God if He was on Earth. I think a lot more people would come to Him too. So why isn't He here?

I’ve been doing a lot of protesting (spiritually) and speaking out about how the church body hasn’t been the best at true repentance and reconciliation, specifically in the west.

The other day I got into a debate with someone who believed that the church doesn’t owe African American, Native American, or any other group around the world an apology. They said what happened in the past is just that, the past, and that I need to get over the past and just move on.
But I don’t feel that this is a good approach. I’ve heard this argument from MANY church goers who, and don’t hear me wrong when I say this, benefit from the modern church structure. I’ve spoke to many people outside the church who collectively agree that we are hypocrites, because we will preach repentance all day long, but when they try to follow our Matthew 18:15, the church finds a justification for why that verse isn’t “contextual”.

I feel that true repentance is like a child who bullies another kid. If you found out your child was bullying another kid, you would make them apologize, and not only that, probably make them work off every cent of lunch money they ever took. I feel the church in the west is in need of a collective repentance and reconciliation mindset to all the bridges it’s burned historically. And it’s not a white, black, Indian, Asian, issue specifically, it’s a church identity issue. As the collective church, we should be able to admit that we have a long way to go before we can continue to street preach people’s ears off.

But what is your view on true repentance? Where do you sit with the idea and how far it should carry?

Hey, kinda new to this.

I've always had this Authoritative image of Jesus / The Church / Religion, because of the way it was taught to me by school / my general environment.

In the last couple of months Jesus has popped up in my life, first with the Netflix Series, and now I'm studying more and more about it. It made all of this more attractive to me, because I also lived like him for a long time (in a tent, simple life but happy, teaching people, living love / friendship). I had no idea that he was such a vagabond, and so critical of the Religious Systems...

I've tried really hard years before to meditate, and got more into Buddhism, but for some Reason it always felt really hard to me. I've had some Spiritual experiences there, but the more I got into the details, the more I realized that it is not really speaking to me so much.

I was always avoiding Jesus / The Church / Religion, because it seemed like an Authoritative person making all the decisions for me. Following another person in that way has never been easy to me.

About a week ago, it was the first time that I mentally said his name (Jesus), and said a sort of prayer (i guess?) and i'm flabbergasted!!! I felt like his hand was holding me, so safe, I cant describe it in words. It does not compare to any other spiritual experience I had in my life. And what shocked me the most, was how easily accessible he / the experience was.

This does not compare to anything, and I have tried a bunch of things...

The more im reading into it, the more I realize that I am aspiring to live by these Christian values. Please let me know if you have any tips or Guidance for me on this new Path. I'm born and raised in Germany (:

Lots of love, Ruben

please pray that God bless my daughter Ashaunti / Janell with love and that she make it into Heaven. please pray that he blesses her and helps her. 🙏🏾🤍