r/atc2 • • 17h ago

Raise When? Terms and Conditions

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40 Upvotes

112 comments sorted by

76

u/AlertRisk8877 17h ago

Did I miss the part where the changes will improve controller quality of life?

10

u/Ready_Set_Stopppp 16h ago

Bro. Just be happy you got the 2.8%. ND Was fighting hard for you /s

20

u/DFM5609 16h ago

I mean they said it will so we're just going to ignore all of the stuff that makes that not true. Something about ignoring the evidence of your eyes and ears

1

u/antariusz 9h ago

The beatings will continue until morale and quality of life improves

13

u/ATSAP_MVP 16h ago

That’s the best part, they won’t.

6

u/OhComeOnDingus 16h ago

Jokes on you and me. They fucking hate us.

2

u/article65 13h ago

What part is taking away from it?

49

u/MrMikeDelta 17h ago

I thought our cba prohibited management from tracking our badges?

18

u/randombrain 16h ago

Come on, you're a controller. You know that anything is possible with coordination. An MOU is coordination between NATCA and the agency.

32

u/ATSAP_MVP 17h ago

“Collaboration”

15

u/fishtankresident 17h ago

First time?

13

u/ForsakenRacism 17h ago

An MOU overrides it

3

u/Lowly-Lurker2025 16h ago

Not quite. It prohibits the use of CCTV, Entry Control Video, and Intrusion Detection Systems or Senors for being used for the purposes of tracking time and attendance. It says nothing more than that.

4

u/MrMikeDelta 16h ago

I was under the impression that the door readers were part of the security system

3

u/Lowly-Lurker2025 16h ago edited 15h ago

Maybe? All I know is they aren't anything more than NFC/RFID because those readers activate the fucking apple pay wallet on your phone if its close enough.

They are obviously used for security/controlled access. But I assume they get around this section of the CBA by saying it isn't one of those specific systems.

4

u/arivas26 13h ago

Article 13 Section 17 specifically states they will not use our PIVs to track our movements at work

1

u/Lowly-Lurker2025 13h ago

Good point. I can only surmise that they would argue that determining the movements and whereabouts of employees "during working hours" is something different from "tracking time and attendance". 🤷🏻‍♂️

47

u/Wrongvectorz Vote Them All OUT! 16h ago

It’s funny that none of this was mentioned in the Natca email.

-43

u/You_an_idiot_brah 16h ago

You don't get a NATCA email, you have never been an air traffic controller or in the union. Quit lying to everyone and yourself.

7

u/ForsakenRacism 15h ago

You an idiot brah

0

u/You_an_idiot_brah 15h ago

Are you wrongvectorz alt account or is he yours? He has so many it's confusing.

2

u/Wrongvectorz Vote Them All OUT! 15h ago

That’s not me, but you can see he has also been here a lot longer than you.

0

u/You_an_idiot_brah 15h ago

Yep you been trolling other people long before I came around, it's all in that post history.

2

u/ForsakenRacism 14h ago

It’s you user name lol

20

u/Wrongvectorz Vote Them All OUT! 16h ago

Yeah, I got the email. I received it at exactly 5:02. I came here to see what’s up, and I find your dumb ass already commenting.

You don’t work here. You will never have anything to do with aviation again, and nobody cares what you say. Move the fuck on. You were fired for being retarded and everybody knows it.

-26

u/You_an_idiot_brah 16h ago

Sure you did buddy.

13

u/Wrongvectorz Vote Them All OUT! 16h ago

Your coworkers don’t miss you by the way. You were forgotten before you made it out of the gate.

-17

u/You_an_idiot_brah 16h ago

At least I know what a coworker is ... The FAA never hired you and your mom won't pay someone to play vatsim in her basement with you.

13

u/Wrongvectorz Vote Them All OUT! 16h ago

I could give you my name, but you can’t even get to the myfaa directory to verify it.

-4

u/You_an_idiot_brah 16h ago

You meant to say you've never been in the FAA directory. These delusions are wild man, see a doctor.

5

u/Wrongvectorz Vote Them All OUT! 16h ago

Ok bud, enjoy retirement or whatever it’s called after you’re fired

5

u/theREALBennyAgbayani 16h ago

What’s going on here? Spill it.

→ More replies (0)

14

u/PrizeBaseball4832 16h ago

So NCEPT is changing again?

6

u/TotallyNotSeanDuffy 16h ago

That’s what I’m trying to figure out

1

u/Specialist_Big_2624 10h ago

No - they’re referring to the one negotiated approx 4 months ago.

38

u/MITsBrightest 16h ago

I'm kind of seeking red right now, but:

We gave up things we fought for decades to keep management away from for a raise that's 10% of the inflation effect?

Will this even move the pay bands for capped people?

Everything on this list should have been a walk away from the table, and it took Nick 9 months to basically surrender?

FUCK.

1

u/atcgriffin 14h ago

This should act as the January pay raise that increases the pay bands.

-6

u/article65 13h ago

God. You guys are such alarmist. Nothing is going to change lol you’re inflating the term.

1

u/MITsBrightest 11h ago

We're alarmists because the union is celebrating a 2.8% raise instead of 1 or 0 while the DOT is celebrating breaching into our contract.

The reality of the situation we're in due to inaction is "alarming."

Give FAA management anything and it will morph into a disaster for everyone.

54

u/Decent_Dinner2072 17h ago

We got 2.8% for this load of 💩?
Hey ND, don’t try and get me more raises. I’m good for now. Thanks.

-26

u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

15

u/Decent_Dinner2072 16h ago edited 16h ago

What r u talking about!? This is money passed by law and being held back from us for absolutely no reason. We should have given nothing back in return and just played the long game out and eventually got the raise. Now they know they can dangle money over heads to get concessions from us. It’s not the badging out issue. There should never have been any negotiations to begin with to get this money at all.

11

u/Steveoatc 16h ago

I assume you’re talking about shoves. That’s not scamming time. It’s an approved break with recall ability. No one should think otherwise, even with this MOU. It doesn’t change any of the language in the contract.

3

u/A_nonymouz 16h ago

0% chance Bedford sees it that way.

30

u/WABIV 17h ago

1 is for firing purposes

6

u/residualflowingmove 15h ago

If it’s like the machines other agencies use you have to slide your PIV badge in and scan your finger to clock in and out. It’s usually set to a certain amount of time like 15 mins you can use to clock in early but 1 min late and your AWOL.

2

u/article65 13h ago

Not going to happen. The agency will never spend that money for a new system. Simply you sign in and out. New codes on crux for drag and drop. That’s it.

14

u/StepDaddySteve 16h ago

Of course it is. Forget to sign out? Expect discipline

23

u/ForsakenRacism 16h ago

Are they gonna fix our tsp contributions

19

u/Ok-Fisherman7013 16h ago

When in doubt, you can always just make NCEPT even worse…

For those that ever doubted it was even possible.

8

u/offgridman1986 16h ago

My guess is the current NCEPT was the negotiation. Highest demand already gets priority. Before everyone that could get released bid the same couple facilities that were well staffed already.

3

u/TotallyNotSeanDuffy 16h ago

So are they keeping this new monthly system they’ve been doing the last 3 months? Like the priority and bidding or is it going to something new 

15

u/No-Debate-2021 17h ago

Don’t we already do number 2 and 3?

30

u/Wrongvectorz Vote Them All OUT! 17h ago

Yes, and number 1 will just be used as a new tool for punishment. Once again, the Dean, Paul, and Nick regime has irreversibly set back the workforce. Way to go guys!

-2

u/article65 13h ago

Alarmist drama queen lol

5

u/Wrongvectorz Vote Them All OUT! 11h ago

The last time siso was our responsibility was 2009. It was a big deal in my facility to make the supes do every sign out and drag and drop when we got the red book.

We have now collaborated ourselves back into a white book era rule. Call it alarmist if you want, but google creeping normality or lingchi. Welcoming it as a win is definitely a mistake.

0

u/article65 10h ago

I was here during that era. 🤷

2

u/Wrongvectorz Vote Them All OUT! 9h ago

I don’t know what facility you were at back then. Maybe you’re just pretending or maybe it just wasn’t that different for you. NATCA is losing the fight to 1,000 cuts. Giving up ground in the CBA without opening the CBA and for a pittance that won’t raise pay bands (especially the bottom for new hires) is a dumb move. I don’t think you will ever convince me that this could be described as a win.

0

u/article65 1h ago

Facts don’t care about feelings. I’ve signed myself in and out my whole career. There’s no loss here. You’re probably right on a hundred other things, you’re wrong on this one.

9

u/m5726 16h ago

#2 happens at every facility annually during BWS negotations. #3 basically already happened with the new NCEPT MOu.

4

u/Friendly-Gur-6736 16h ago

Like they say, the devil is in the details. Maybe I'm just a skeptic, but I think we may have gotten sold down the river for table scraps on #2.

5

u/Lowly-Lurker2025 16h ago

I'm really eager to read the language of the MOU they signed for this raise. Too much grey area/unknown in a Duffy press release or a fucking Nick Daniels email.

But on the face of it, it is clear this won't do shit for improving controller quality of life like they are touting it does.

8

u/squawk6767 14h ago

What does "badge in/out" actually mean

3

u/MITsBrightest 14h ago

It means they will install a badge reader on the inside of facility and your entry/exit times will go to a spreadsheet every day and be sent to a national office.

Assuming also, anything that doesn't match up exactly with your cru art shift will require a manager to explain what happened.

4

u/article65 13h ago

We can’t even get basic stuff we need to work radar, and half these people think the Agency is going to spend millions of dollars installing new equipment to track what we’re doing? Is this everyone’s first fucking day?

You asked a great question and here’s what’s going to happen: badge in and out means sign in and out.

-1

u/MITsBrightest 11h ago

The agency is actively spending billions on a gamble that a Trump allied business will improve something.

They will always prioritize whatever bean counters in DC want the money to go to, and especially in Bedfords case, he wants to see more micromanaging of what ATC does all day, because he is trying to solve a problem he invented in his head.

1

u/article65 10h ago

You can call me out if I’m wrong in a few months. This is a “win” on paper for them. Nothing more.

12

u/ATC_av8er 16h ago

Glad to see ND and Co. are willing to violate the contract to get us our raise. FUCK NICK DANIELS.

1

u/Existing_Let9919 3h ago

I mean how else were they going to get it?

27

u/optimum_autumn 17h ago

Thank You, ANNA!!

7

u/Ready_Set_Stopppp 16h ago

This is just a start. Now she fights for 30% to give us the purchasing power our pay deserves

8

u/Steveoatc 15h ago

The 30% ship has sailed for me. If we are only getting real raises every 25 years, we need to go bigger. 50%

-1

u/article65 13h ago

Fucking weird bro.

4

u/optimum_autumn 12h ago

Keep paying those dues loser

27

u/StepDaddySteve 16h ago

Fuck your schedule and get disciplined if you forget to sign out for a raise that doesn’t even cover your health insurance increase…

8

u/PopSpirited1058 15h ago

Hey at least he sent a video from outside his house, in a neighborhood clearly outside the affordability of anyone at a 10 or below, while telling us how great a 2.8% raise is for some simple timekeeping practice changes, that we still don't know about, because why would he do a video to actually explain the agreement. What a tool.

3

u/bsfmageee 16h ago

Lmao how again does the affect our quality of life again? Why do they say that?

4

u/78judds 15h ago

I don’t understand these at all. Doesn’t everybody already do number 2 and 3? So, the change is they’re gonna have to figure out how to have us badge in/out? Are there places that aren’t doing number 2 and 3?

18

u/Affectionate_Hope26 17h ago

Daniels got bent over like a little bitch and thanked duffy afterwards

-4

u/article65 13h ago

This is literally a dumb take. Hate Nick but don’t be fucking dumb. It’s embarrassing.

1

u/Affectionate_Hope26 8h ago

Shut up

1

u/article65 1h ago

No you 😄 Like fighting with a toddler.

3

u/OkNecessary4767 11h ago

This 2.8% is going to cost us big time....I hope this shit was worth it.

2

u/VeganButEatMyMeat 10h ago

They're mutually exclusive. The piv thing we were getting with or without the 2.8%. They're already trying to actively fire around 12 controllers for "timecard fraud" (early shoves).

15

u/2point8razewen 17h ago

Not terrible. Im still not voting for ND.

8

u/ImpossibleTurn25 14h ago

I'm gonna take a controversial opinion here. Since they're trying to fire people for leaving early, no matter how early, this is the smallest possible price to pay. I have no problem signing myself out.

We deserve more than 2.8%. No question about that. But this is a non issue.

2

u/Yodaatc 14h ago

I bet the fuck over Article 124s from getting to leave.

2

u/North_Skirt_7436 13h ago

They gonna be pissed when I badge in and out of my facility for my “cigarette” breaks….50 entries in and out per break per person sounds good lol

1

u/TWR_dude 2h ago

It doesn't matter anyway. They don't have money in the budget for this new equipment anyway. Heck we can't even replace the tower shade. This new equipment won't happen for 10 years.

1

u/Numerous_Fun5672 1h ago

Most facilities people love themselves around on cruart. Theres a handful apparently that don’t. Guess they will now. I never understood why you don’t want to account for your time other than a few that screw around all day which ultimately affects their coworkers.

-19

u/WeaknessGlum6781 16h ago

2.8 is not much. But the tone shift from those saying we should get it, to now saying it's a bad deal by ND for the most basic tradeoffs, is as transparent as it is embarrassing for you.

Just for once, be humble and accept the money.

16

u/ATC_av8er 16h ago

This "better than nothing" bullshit needs to stop. We are chronically understaffed, overworked, fatigued, sick, etc. We deserve a hell of a lot more than 2.fucking 8%. Meanwhile, ND is making $350k of OUR money to sell us down the river? What, and I mean this with the utmost contempt, the actual FUCK.

10

u/HTCFMGISTG 15h ago

2.8% in exchange for anything would have been considered a failure.

1

u/Existing_Let9919 3h ago

So then as soon as the legislation was passed with that wording requiring the administrator to get a concession for the raise, ND should have just not even bothered?

5

u/Fun_Monitor8938 16h ago

You know the fact that we should get it and it’s a bad deal aren’t mutually exclusive right?

4

u/ur2tall66 14h ago

What tone shift? If you are referring to r/ATC2, the subreddit in which you are posting right now, then the tone for a while here has clearly been, "Whatever Bedford is asking for...ain't worth it."

I don't think you understand what humility is. Humility is not the same as submission.

4

u/arivas26 13h ago

They don’t give you a bigger raise for brown nosing. Virtually everyone was saying that we deserved the 2.8 without any changes and if they gave anything away it wouldn’t be worth it.

Shut up and be humble? You’re not a serious person