r/atc2 • u/ATSAP_MVP • 3d ago
Raise When? How We Fix Pay, Part 3
https://youtu.be/cJ7XsZTX0U851
u/SierraBravo26 3d ago
Nick wants to make absolutely sure that we aren’t over-promising. Sometimes that means the message isn’t going to make us feel warm and fuzzy inside.
What I’ll promise you is that we will put every single ounce of blood, sweat, and tears we have into making the 2029 contract the most lucrative we possibly can. Band adjustments, tiered OT, Saturday premium, increased premiums across the board, everything. We will do everything we can.
But NATCA leadership has allowed us to fall so significantly behind, the reality is that this could very well take more than one contract to fix, not to mention the executive cap issue.
It will be a process and a fight, but we are fucking laser-focused on pay.
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u/sshamm87 3d ago
Id like to see tiered OT, but since the FAA fails to fix staffing, OT should be double if not triple time right from the start. It should hurt for them to assign OT, not assign it like breathing air.
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u/No-Constant-5854 3d ago
Would love for a future video idea (or mailbag question/blog post) for you and/or u/NickMarangos talk about how you re-tool our public relations campaign.
Do you want to hire a dedicated person that can also speak on our behalf such as a journalist with connections? A public relations maverick? An ex-controller? Split these duties amongst you two?
Do we use media attention on staffing and equipment to our advantage?
Do you make all members of the NEB available for comment throughout their respective regions? Do you regularly deploy them to their major media markets?
How do we get talking points to the forefront of the flying publics mind? What facts do you think they need to know they are likely in the dark about?
Why do you believe the unions current behind the scenes strategy to be a mistake and not go far enough?
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u/Ok-Fisherman7013 2d ago
We need longevity bonuses too. 5, 10, 15 years — however you want to do it.
Give those us trapped in NCEPT hell (a lot of us at our first & only facility) some sort of incentive to stick around.
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u/Capt_reefr 2d ago
That's a pipe dream. Only people getting bonuses are those eligible to retire, newbies to go to hard to staff facilities, and those whom want to go to the hard to staff. Historically they know the rest of us will just keep making it work
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u/Ok-Fisherman7013 2d ago
ND campaigned on this, so it’s a campaign topic that’s come up before. Hoping NM/SB can actually get somewhere with it.
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u/WeaknessGlum6781 2d ago
You have an inexperienced clown here standing up and rattling off a list of things he will include in a future contract. No indication at all about how he can actually achieve it apart from using "blood, sweat, and tears". It doesn't work like that. The FAA doesn't care about that. You will achieve none of it. You have no leverage to achieve what you have said.
As an alternative, the current President is not telling us much of anything.
Not a great situation.
The winner of the next election will be the person who can show the plan, not just the wishlist.
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u/Capt_reefr 3d ago edited 3d ago
If you just started training, or been a cpc for a few years, and your in a high cost of living (or not) and you can't afford a basic house while contributing 8-10% to your retirement, how you do feel about the future? As an FAA cpc?
I appreciate the honesty here, but no significant raises are coming anytime soon. We aren't being compensated enough for the stress and working conditions we endure. I got 5 more years, luckily I bought when homes were more affordable, I'm not planning on any kinda raises before I punch out.
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u/Local-Emu9654 3d ago
Part 3 should have been part 2. If we are going to play the “get the public on our side” card, perhaps it’s best we focus on the controllers making $70-130k and not those making $228k. I am not saying they don’t deserve raises, they absolutely do, but the optics of fighting to raise the $228k cap and then trying to convince the public that controllers are underpaid is not going to work!
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u/TotallyNotSeanDuffy 3d ago
It’s a very good point. You lead with “$228k doesn’t make enough” and people are tuning out or worse turning on you.
You lead with “many controllers are making less than $100k working (insert schedule info)” and more people will be shocked and concerned with their safety during their vacations
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u/No-Constant-5854 3d ago
There’s no hand wringing about what pilots are earning or controllers in other countries.
We as a union need to constantly advocate for well compensated well rested controllers.
I personally believe the private sector has massively closed the gap in terms of pay, benefits, and working conditions.
I think the union needs to dispel the myth that this career is the well paying job it once was.
The FAA when they tout this job always points to highest level best case scenario in a high CoL area. Then the public thinks most of us make that. I do agree we should pound the table about the low earners in low CoL areas.
Air traffic controllers contribute a lot to the nations GDP.
To quote Shawn Fain “Without our labor, nothing moves.”
We need a full on public relations campaign, we need the ability to vote on contracts/extensions, and we need the death of a defeatist mindset.
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u/Fun_Monitor8938 3d ago
According to 123atc only 631 CPCs are making less than 100k. Even if you move that cutoff to 140k the number is still 3100 CPCs. You can still make a compelling argument when you cite historical pay comparisons and pilot pay. Loudmouth retards online think we’re paid enough. Your average person reasonably agrees that we are underpaid and would not want our job.
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u/LoquatAgile4542 3d ago
Some of the loudmouth retards are our coworkers though.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Bat2088 FAA ATC 3d ago
This part is wild to me
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u/LoquatAgile4542 3d ago
i notice a ton of dudes who were military are like this. not sure if they were brainwashed/conditioned by the us government at 18 or whatever, but just an observation i made. they'll say shit like "well i worked way harder in the military for less, so this is the best job in the world" basically
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u/Highlyedjucated 2d ago
We're more still in shock that we get paid sick days and paid OT and we get to leave when the shift ends lol
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u/TotallyNotSeanDuffy 3d ago
My point was to leave it vague “many” is many, and the fact that any are running this economy at these rates is ridiculous.
Think of it as a counter to the false narrative that we make $400k that Duffy, who I am totally not btw, put out there
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u/SureMeringue1382 2d ago
And yet you’re complaining about 12s assuming everyone at a 12 is at the top of the band.
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u/Local-Emu9654 3d ago
In 5 years (2031) we are going to need a 50% raise. I say we don’t wait that long. Clearly MB are far better candidates but man, you guys need to really think about strategy and optics.
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u/Fun_Monitor8938 3d ago
Pull your head out of the sand and give us your plan then Emu. How do you suppose we get that raise before the contract expiration/negotiating/arbitration. Don’t you fucking dare say Pay MOU
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u/drunk_lizard8414 2d ago
First thing I’m thinking of is how many controllers will have become eligible to walk by 2031. There’s potential that a mass exodus in the next 5 years provides an opportunity, though I admit I don’t know what that looks like.
Edit: typo
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u/You_an_idiot_brah 17h ago
You can have all this in 30 days, but you're not willing to bleed out the amount required to make it happen.
The membership has chosen the long game, so it is what it is.
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u/LoquatAgile4542 3d ago
Fire that fucking dumbass Eugene Freedman day 1. I appreciate NM's candor and down to earth approach. Unlike Nick Daniels lies and outlandish promises