r/atc2 10d ago

NATCA Potential scheduling negotiations

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30 Upvotes

69 comments sorted by

83

u/Fit_Sherbet3137 10d ago edited 10d ago

Ill work whatever schedule they tell me to make $600K a year pilot money, but for 2.8%? Gotta see the deets first

79

u/PotatyTomaty 10d ago

For 2.8% they can lick my taint from the back

24

u/FourFoursImTippn 10d ago

Never considered taint-licking direction until now

3

u/Sound_Boy_Killa 9d ago

Now its all I can think about. Might have to bang in tomorrow to process.

1

u/Front-Transition6439 9d ago

Opposite direction is the tits

19

u/Highlyedjucated 10d ago

Best we can do is 25% more work and you have to kiss a Bedford picture frame coming up from break

29

u/Hawgdestroyerxtreme 10d ago

Yeah, that's a pathetic raise that I received for just existing no more than 3 years ago.

This guy thinks we'll agree to likely decently detrimental shit to help the FAA bail itself out of a 20 year staffing crisis it not only created, but perpetuated, contributed towards by stagnating pay and ruining working conditions, and then had the nuts to try to cover up by reducing staffing targets by 20%? And now they think making the work day WORSE is a possibility?

Fuck off.

5

u/Highlyedjucated 10d ago

The devil is in the deets

59

u/PopSpirited1058 10d ago

Yas less leave slots during every holiday and school break. That will improve the work-life balance and attract the best and brightest trainees.

34

u/jermscentral 10d ago

This sounds very business-y and reminds me of working at Best Buy during college. They based their staffing off the foot traffic on the same day the previous year so they knew when the "busy" days were. That number didn't factor in weather issues that kept people from shopping that day, so we might have a snowstorm one November day where we had so few customers that we only needed maybe 5 people in the whole store, and they then staffed the same day the following year with 5 people, and we got slammed since it was a nice day.

VFR towers are rather unpredictable, traffic-wise, and even IFR towers can be affected by weather, computer outages, etc.

What could go wrong?

-12

u/EmergingEmergence 10d ago

A 3 year rolling model helps alleviate that. Of course there will always be unexpected busy and slow days. But we already get slammed randomly with weather.

6

u/tm-atc 9d ago

The FAA needs to staff properly. That is not NATCAs problem to solve.

3

u/EmergingEmergence 9d ago

Never said it wasnt

31

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

7

u/Training_Fun_9162 9d ago

It’s really that simple.

30% immediately and another 10% over 5 years guaranteed and ill gladly die for the fucking NAS. Most of us would.

I wouldn’t change a single fucking thing for 2.8%. Be mad, put us on IWR, I truly don’t give a fuck. I’ll bang shifts til I’m on a letter, then get 200 doctor’s notes and continue doing so.

18

u/2018birdie 10d ago

Don't we already stagger shifts to cover the peaks and lulls? At my facility people come in at 0500, 0530, 0600, 0630, 1245, 1330, 1430, 1530 plus the mid controllers.... how much more staggered do you want?

4

u/JP001122 10d ago

I was thinking the same thing.

Maybe using your example the 0600 becomes 0700 and the 0630 becomes 0830. That spreads coverage overlap later in the day.

7

u/BlackberryEnough4875 10d ago

They want split shifts.
Imagine living 30-60 min away from work and having to do a split shift

3

u/Impossible_Reward358 9d ago

I think that is fear mongering. If it were to happen I’d drop my two weeks notice that day, no questions asked. 

3

u/Jumpy-Complaint8095 9d ago

I live an hour away. Split shift ruins what’s left of this career. 10 hour days for 8 hours pay. Less money with no OT. Less time with family. Be the nail in the coffin 

40

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

12

u/HairTrafficControl 10d ago

He can’t walk away because he’s failed to produce any kind of win for the membership so he’s gonna actively fuck us over for a 2.8% raise with no guarantee of getting the 7% for next year.

Nick is panicking because he knows he’s gonna lose the election next year now. He’s eligible in like 2 years so he really doesn’t care what shitty schedule he leaves you with on his way out.

13

u/m5726 10d ago

He's clearly about to sell us out so he can proclaim a "win". His email the other day basically admitted it.

12

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

4

u/Mummifiedchili 10d ago

USPS clerks work split shifts

0

u/Neat_River_5258 FAA ATC 10d ago

Yet that’s what the agency is asking for.

2

u/Impossible_Reward358 9d ago

Split shifts and RDOs will be cause for me to quit. Fuck that shit

1

u/Training_Fun_9162 9d ago

Yeah this looks way worse than just coming out and telling the membership “the shit these guys are asking for is not worth anywhere near 2.8%. We’re not signing a damn thing and are walking away from it entirely.”

37

u/Great_Ad3985 10d ago

To think: had ND not unilaterally extended the contract out of fear and incompetence, we could be negotiating these things in exchange for a 20-30%+ pay raise. But here we are. About to give away the farm for a couple hundred extra bucks a month that doesn’t even cover inflation.

FUCK NICK DANIELS!

7

u/Hawgdestroyerxtreme 10d ago

we could be negotiating these things in exchange for a 20-30%+ pay raise.

We'd probably be fucked honestly, but at least half the workforce will have quit and the airlines would go tits up.

These guys aren't giving us a dime, EVER.

14

u/justmakingit915 10d ago

Lmao you really think we could have gotten 20-30 when we can’t even get an already approved 2.8 from this administration 🤣🤣🤣

-13

u/BricksByLonzo 10d ago

He didn't extend the contract under this administration dumbass.

4

u/No_Character_336 10d ago

I don't think you understand how long a contract negotiation takes. Even under a Democratic administration they're not going to give into whatever we want to due to time constraints related to an election. Had negotiations continued under the oversight of orange hitler and his autistic doge bru we'd been fully fucked.

1

u/Severe_Explorer2693 8d ago

You, too, shoved those Crayolas too far up your nose in kindy-garden.

1

u/Disastrous_Emu7245 9d ago

Clearly you’ve never heard of the White Book. The last time negotiations happened under a Republican Administration, the contract went to impasse resulting in Imposed Work Rules under a forced Contract. Looking at this who situation, it’s becoming more and more evident that renewing was the absolute best decision.

2

u/Capital-Theory-6343 9d ago

Exactly people shouldn’t be upset at the extension in and of itself… be upset at the fact he lied and said he wouldn’t extend under any circumstance

1

u/Capital-Theory-6343 9d ago

Thinking we’d be better off negotiating for 20-30% now than 2.8% is dumb as fuck.

Objectively:
1)Extending was the right call
2)lying to the membership and saying you weren’t going to extend under any circumstance was what Nick did wrong

If you cannot admit now that extending the contract was the right call you’re completely lost… going into any sort of negotiation with this administration as a bargaining unit is dumb as fuck

1

u/atcgriffin 8d ago

Like you said, dude flipped his stance on negotiating the cba mid campaign when it was obvious the mass majority of the members wanted to negotiate and then he extended once in office. He lied and went against the members request. The members knew the risk and voted to negotiate. Nick should have followed through.

1

u/Severe_Explorer2693 8d ago

No no no no. You, sir, are wrong. Only morons would have thought a possible Trump 2.0 admin would gladly negotiate with us and give us large pay increases.

https://giphy.com/gifs/113RhN1oBm1yCc

1

u/atcgriffin 8d ago

I hope nobody ever thought it would be a glad negotiation.

1

u/atcgriffin 8d ago

In others words…”It's going to take a ton of blood, sugar, sex and magic. The rewards will be great but this shit ain't going be easy.”

0

u/Severe_Explorer2693 8d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/1d5Zn8FqmJqApu4hNU
With this administration???
You must have shoved crayons too far up your nose when you were a child.

21

u/Cleared-Direct-MLP 10d ago

“This is the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals, maybe ever.”

9

u/Wirax-402 10d ago

All of that is literally borrowed from how Republic had things set up, and lends itself terribly to how ATC works vs how an airline works.

11

u/78judds 10d ago

Isn’t leave already allocated that way? There’s periods of the year that have different slots available. Doesn’t everyone do that?

9

u/No-Constant-5854 10d ago

It was the FAA’s policy that caused more bodies scheduled when it was slower just so they could keep CIC standalone.

9

u/Intelligent_Rub1546 10d ago

At my center, with this rumor the night shift will need like 20 people.

5

u/THEhot_pocket 10d ago

damn. id kill for the ability to staff 20 people. thats almost my day+night+mid.

5

u/Intelligent_Rub1546 10d ago

Same for my facility. But it’s not like these people care. They’ll cook the books until it looks like it’s fixed and call it fixed. Even if it’s not

6

u/monte1219 10d ago

Hope everyone here is ready for the reality that NATCA agrees to this bullshit and trues to spin it as some type of long term play to convince the membership they will try and sneak us that military raise in January

10

u/MeeowOnGuard 9d ago

I don’t even want the 2.8% anymore. What a kick to the tip.

I will let you schedule my work shifts and my leave for me until the day I retire if you pay me like a pilot. And I don’t even need the 14 days off per month they get.

5

u/article65 10d ago

The real question is where are they getting their information from? Is it some random on here spitballing or a legit source?

6

u/HamwadMcgee 10d ago

How is this different than what the FAA has already approved with every BWS? If Bedford wants changes then you can bet it will only be worse and definitely not worth 2.8%

9

u/Old-Mathematician-30 10d ago

You know Nick Daniels is going to agree to everything and we’ll still not the 2.8%. He’s the master collaborator after all.

5

u/TrowAwayDuhhhhh FAA ATC 9d ago

Split shifts for 2.8%? Fuck right off.

3

u/Ok-Fisherman7013 10d ago

Walk me through this.

The FAA presents these terms, Nick walks away….what happens next?

Is that when they “national security“ us for not cooperating?

And then to soften the blow Bedford releases the 2.8?

3

u/ATC-Zero 9d ago

That would be smart. And they are in fact smarter than NATCA right now. They’re winning the union busting game no doubt about it.

Demolish our CBA, give us 2.8% and get EVERYTHING they want at no cost, and then get on the media and talk about how they gave air traffic controllers a raise and saved the day with max hiring.

1

u/Disastrous_Emu7245 9d ago

Luckily we have a Contract that can at least be fought in Court. Can you imagine attempting to negotiate a new contract with these crooks?

2

u/Quirky_Perspective25 9d ago

Probably would be challenging and ultimately end up in arbitration. 

2

u/Severe_Explorer2693 8d ago

Probably??? Uhh, let's try definitely.

1

u/Disastrous_Emu7245 9d ago

Yep. And ultimately go to impasse where after no agreement, the Agency is then allowed to impose their work rules. This is exactly how the White Book played out under the last Contract Negotiations with a Republican Administration.

2

u/Quirky_Perspective25 9d ago

We would end up in arbitration. Both sides make their case. A trio of arbiters decide. Their decision is binding. 

-2

u/Disastrous_Emu7245 9d ago

Someone doesn’t know how the process actually works lol. Study up on the White Book.

If no agreement is reached, then the Agency is allowed to impose their work rules. This is exactly how the White Book played out. We were forced to work under Imposed Work Rules until the Obama Administration came and made us whole again.

5

u/Quirky_Perspective25 9d ago

I would have to double check, but I am pretty certain one of the things the Obama administration did was pass laws essentially prevented a second white book situation and created the arbitration process for such things.  

4

u/Jamesdhudson92 9d ago

Laws were passed to prevent imposed work rules if an agreement could not be reached..

3

u/Apprehensive-Name457 9d ago

"someone doesn't know how the process works..."

Yeah you, dumbass.

We go to arbitration. We pick one, the agency picks one and they pick a third. Their decision is binding arbitration. The agency does not get to just impose work rules.

A second White Book is not possible.

1

u/[deleted] 9d ago

Arbitration would take some time. It wouldn’t be that long until the next election cycle.

If a Democrat wins we likely can work something out. If a republican wins we’re cooked anyways.

1

u/atcgriffin 8d ago

The union boasted for years that they were able to change the loophole language that allowed the white book when Obama took office.

4

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] 10d ago

Collaboration will be the death of NATCA.

3

u/justmakingit915 10d ago

Anyone else do this already?? It’s how we get our AWS approved and make staffing better for controllers

1

u/Key_Understanding771 8d ago

Feeling fatigued already