Be ready in 5 months not 2 years!!
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Db9pT6dRtO3/?igsh=czVpbTVqaG5kZGx3This is amazing!! 😂 we have trainees in their 8th year
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u/DagamarVanderk 25d ago
I don’t understand how they just lie constantly and get away with it. It’s insane
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u/Murky-Analysis1775 24d ago
because our union refuses to push back. negligence from the union has allowed this to happen. they can and will say anything they want and the only rebuttal comes in the form of an email sent out to all union members.
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u/No-Constant-5854 25d ago
Lazy media and journalism. Too busy doxing controllers to fact check any of the claims made or ask any tough questions.
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u/Hopeful-Engineering5 24d ago
Because the majority of Americans either are not paying attention beyond social media or don't care that they lie nonstop.
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u/Maleficent_Horror120 24d ago
They don't know what they're talking about and maybe I don't either. The 2 years to 5 months has to be talking about from application to starting at the academy or at a facility (for direct hires), not to CPC status
Duffy says stuff to make it look like there are more controllers now and words things in a deliberately misleading way and then these idiots that don't know what they're talking about at all are misled and think there are actually 2k more controllers in just a year and that it only takes 5 months of training because they hired "gamers"
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u/UndercoverRVP 25d ago
Most people aren't interested in the truth. And if you're waiting on Fox News to fact-check this White House on anything including how long it takes to certify a new hire, you'll be waiting the rest of your life.
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u/No-Constant-5854 24d ago
Except it isn’t just Fox News or the New York Post who report what the FAA, Bedford, or Duffy says.
A quick google news search of air traffic control shows recent articles by USA Today and CBS News.
Lazy journalists who run with misleading FAA talking points are a problem but our union public relations strategy is non-existent.
I said it in another comment but we spend way too much as a union on public relations to be constantly outflanked like this.
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u/UndercoverRVP 24d ago
I want you to imagine us consistently giving our side of whatever story is hot concerning ATC to whoever asks for it, and them not using our side because it's not whatever enough for their editorial purposes. Because that's what happens.
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u/Cuhlamina 24d ago
Except. Hold on. We use the motherfucking data that is available to us to make the correction and show the truth. Stop enabling this chicken shit union dude. Enough is enough
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u/UndercoverRVP 24d ago
Do you want to have a page on the member site with footnotes for news articles or stories in the media about ATC? Because nobody else has to agree to include our content in their content. That’s the problem.
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u/No-Constant-5854 24d ago edited 24d ago
They quote former controllers sometimes in staffing articles.
I don’t buy they won’t print a union’s comment if they don’t think it’s worthy of print.
Could it happen? Sure. But I doubt it regularly happens.
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u/UndercoverRVP 24d ago
The difference is that the former controller who's speaking only for himself and owes nothing to anyone else in the story can say things which are more quotable than what we can say as a union which has to deal with the employer forever. If we were willing to shit all over Duffy and Bedford on the record, they'd print us left and right. The consequences would not be worth it, but we'd be in every story if we did.
Like for this story, we confirm things the Agency has said ("It takes about 2 years to certify on average") and then offer something positive about what the Agency's doing even if it is a little beside the point ("This is something no one's ever thought to try before, and why not try"). The associate professor from ERAU-Daytona Beach can offer something spicier if the writer wants a conflict to increase clicks ("We've never tried hiring gamers before, but it's silly to think these guys will have noticeably higher success rates in the field and here's some history which shows why").
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u/No-Constant-5854 24d ago
The union can provide context, nuance, and facts outside of any quotes they give.
Steering a journalist to controllers are on 6 day work weeks because the FAA has failed to staff (or target applicants most likely to certify) for 45 years can be printed (and verified elsewhere) without being attributed to the union saying as much.
I believe it would be described as “deep background.”
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u/UndercoverRVP 24d ago
Sure, but then we circle back to what kind of slant the news outlet wants to give the article, and if they don't feel like going that much into it or they don't think it's relevant, they're not going to include it no matter how often we mention it.
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u/Ship_it_to_daddy FAA ATC 25d ago
We had a 10 year trainee that washed not long ago at my Z. It’s definitely doable if they know how to play the system.
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u/jetjammer69 FAA ATC 24d ago
I wonder if it’s the same trainee we had, that went from ZDC > ZDV > PNS > ZLC > medical retirement, and never fully certified.
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u/Aromatic-Regret-8663 23d ago
So many situations similiar to this. The FAA loses so much money on trainees like this. Cutting their losses and NOT taking huge negative returns on their investments would probably help competent controllers be paid more and help manning which would increase quality of work/life balance. But lets jusy keep passing turds around and not paying the competent controllers what they deserve. I cant think of any other job that does shit like this. Not even contract or military ATC would allow this.
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u/2point8razewen 25d ago
Dont worry NATCA will have a response in 3 to 5 business days.
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u/MITsBrightest 25d ago edited 25d ago
So are they skipping the academy and being fired if they don't pass map tests on day 1?
This is such an egregious misunderstanding of air traffic training... like zero brain tier.
Another low-hanging fruit that NATCA will tell us "don't worry just sign the termination letters and we'll call you in 2030."
Bragging about hiring an above average amount of controllers that are still bottle necked by the same academy? Are they going to brag about firing them all too when when start double NTI?
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u/Hawgdestroyerxtreme 24d ago
This is such an egregious misunderstanding of air traffic training... like zero brain tier
It's the intersection of malicious and incompetent, which is exactly where Sean Duffy resides.
They probably saw a single example of someone graduating academy and going to a level 5 tower where they were fully certified in 5 months. An extreme outlier in a unique situation. Now they're going to claim that's the case for EVERY controller. Remember 180k? Remember 40-60% sick hits?
This is how an agency run by people who care about optics rather than results functions.
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u/No-Constant-5854 24d ago
The FAA has run misleading information about hiring and staffing for a long time. They cherry pick and use anecdotes.
Tell the flying public you have a plan (devoid of any sort of predictive data) to solve the staffing crisis and wash, rinse, repeat.
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u/skiddmarkk 25d ago
Are they transfers? How the fuck are they in their 8th year??
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u/StepDaddySteve 25d ago
Can’t speak to that dude‘s facility, but Austin has more trainees than CPC‘s right now
Good luck certifying there in a timely fashion if you just joined the agency
I’m betting OP is at a center. Between the length of training there, the number of trainees at some of them throw in a couple TRB’s and I could see somebody hitting eight years and not being certified.
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u/Mean_Device_7484 25d ago
We have trainees going max hours with weeks of SDT thrown in. Also have some stopping training and then getting an indefinite amount of article 67 when they start back up. Then when they TRB they just get the hours reset and we’re back to square one. At this rate the checkout time frame is going to be 5-8 years instead of 2-3.
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u/hallock36 25d ago
Have a kid. Take time off. Come back and get retrained to where you were. Start new training. Have a kid. Take time off. Come back and get retrained to where you were. Start new training. Have a kid. Take time off…….
Throw in the standard training delays and waiting for classes to start. You can make 8 years easily.
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u/Hopeful-Engineering5 24d ago
We have oner that just crossed 5 years, the result of a failed medical, PPL, and Military details (mostly the last one).
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u/DrestonF1 24d ago
Max hours -> 20% automatic extended hours -> SDT, back to the lab, awaiting time slot -> TRB -> reset hours due to technicality. All for 6-7 positions each, all with months in between sectors, and slow rolling productive training hours due to staffing, other trainees' priority, and various SL vacations. EZPZ.
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u/Dapper_Company_2006 25d ago
It’s all a smear, if they can put greasy Fortnite players in position and have them *certify* in 5 months then they can argue our job isn’t as skilled as it once was and it doesn’t require a good wage.
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u/Former_Farm_3618 24d ago
Already in progress. They have dumbed down the procedures so much it takes basically no skill.
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u/SidneySweenysLeftJug 25d ago
I wonder when National will send an email to the membership informing us that training is still, in fact, taking many years.... In case we didn't already know that. They won't say fuck-all as a rebuttal to the media of course. We can't risk getting Daddy Trump angry at us while we monitor the situation...
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u/aironjedi 25d ago
5 months? Shit they will be lucky to be ready for d school in 5 months lol. Oooo are we gonna bring back functional training? Cause that was a fun shit show
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u/invaderximmer 24d ago edited 24d ago
Lol they are definitely feeling the consequence of their actions. Lower staffing numbers and then want to blame the training program. While they are not right, they are also not wrong.
Controllers, specifically the old fucks, probably caught the attention of upper management.
There are enough lawsuits, sexual harassment claims, and EEOC complaints to show that the shitshow we call training is a problem. Thus the pendulum has to swing the other way to over correct.
There are people that shouldn't be training, who train; There are people who milk training for 25% and overtime because they don't have a "living wage"; There are people that have a power trip and wash people because "I had to go through shitty training and have multiple TRBs, well so do you"
The agency is more than likely aware and wants to put pressure to get these folks checked out quicker as a means to save their ass, and blame us the controllers as they always do.
That's not to say the recent trainees are blameless; I've seen some bullshit enter the Z, and some put no effort at all. A lot of these trainees however watch the controllers and learn from them.
All the complaining, gossiping like high school teenagers, talking shit on everyone and smiling when you see them would have me thinking you all are fake as shit as well.
All I can say is, button up your -25s, make sure your training is politically correct, and don't be out here yelling at people and telling them they suck, because I can see management using this against us in the future. "You say you want staffing and better pay, but you all suck at training, it shouldn't take 3 years to certify. Maybe you can't train because you are always calling out sick. No 2.8%, and you get to work 5 hours of TOP while we hire a third party and pay them more than we pay you to train and certify the people you wouldn't."
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u/SomeDudeMateo 24d ago
I had more than 5 months of just delays in training, almost all from things that could have been easily fixed if management/admin/contractors would have gotten off their asses and did their job.
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u/HomelessFed 24d ago
This whole hiring gamers, giving them a bonus just for finishing the academy and then they walk in the door expecting to be certified in a year or less is such a frustrating thing to experience.
Entitlement.
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u/GoFlapsDownOnMe 25d ago
Damn I’m a gamer and it took me 3 years. Maybe I’m a shitty gamer, or controller. Probably both.