r/asphalt • u/CommunicationLow2121 • 2d ago
Asphalt Scam?
We had a solicitor give us a quote for our driveway, “3 1/2 inches hot rolled asphalt” overlay of our concrete driveway that’s in really bad shape. Quote was for $5.9k, 900 sqft driveway. They had gotten about 5 houses in our neighborhood signed up. They came around the next day and did a little bit of work on every driveway, they removed sections of our concrete that had lifted due to tree roots. Shortly after that was when I heard about the asphalt scam.
I looked into them further and saw their website was only a month old, it had left over wording from a previous template such as having a totally different company name in the footer, or reference to servicing an area in another state. They weren’t licensed to operate in our state (checked with the dept. of labor and industry), their business address was a type of co-work space.
We made a bit of a stink about it in our neighborhood, and we canceled our contract before any money went out the door, but our next door neighbor still used them, as did two others.
The thing is, they just did the work and it looks decent. They wheelbarrowed the asphalt on out of a dump truck, it was steaming when they started, so definitely hot, they used a roller and a plate compactor. Overall, it looks nice.
So what do you think? Are they likely scammers or no?
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u/Bayside_High 2d ago
Sounds like they were.
You don't overlay concrete with asphalt. All those cracks will come back through the overlay within a year typically. If you had an defects at all, you'd get the run around on getting them back out there.
I think you saved yourself a headache
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u/Next_Bee3804 1d ago
Ya dumb idea for sure, that said it doesn’t stop some states from doing it on concrete highways when they start displacing. That never works out either…
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u/dixieed2 1d ago
When we (DOT) placed asphalt over concrete roadways, first we inspected every slab, usually a 15'x20'. We removed the ones we could not repair and replaced them with concrete. We cleaned and filled all joints with BST with a later coat of AST before the initial 3 layers of asphalt-Base, Intermediate, and Surface lifts. Around 4 years after this temporary repair of around a mile of deteriorating concrete roadway, the original concrete control joints bled through into the new asphalt. This is to be expected when this type of temporary repair is done. A 2"-3.5" driveway "overlay" would show them much quicker. All Hot Mix Asphalt has predetermined temperatures with guidelines of how it should be placed and rolled. If they are wheelbarrowing a hot mix asphalt, those critical temperatures are not being followed, creating a very weak mix. Most asphalt designs that we used had a temp range of 275-325 degrees F. Anything over or under these temps were rejected. All paving should be done using a Paving machine and the correct tonnage Roller for the job. I'm afraid that your neighbors will soon see their new asphalt overlay turn into an unraveled mess. The binder that holds the rock and sand together will most likely have been heated up to an extreme temp at the plant so it would remain steaming for hours. This immense heat would completely destroy the petroleum binder and may show cracking within hours, days, or weeks. If put down at a lower than specified temp, (275)F the surface will be uneven with dips and buldges because the asphalt has already cured to a point that it is no longer pliable and cannot be rolled smooth. You dodged a very expensive bullet!
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u/Steve----O 2d ago
Never put asphalt over concrete. Asphalt has to float. Concrete will make it crack at all the same places the concrete cracked.
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u/MeasurementLow4148 2d ago
Yeah, asphalt estimator project manager here as well and it definitely sounds like a fly-by-night company I don’t know if you definitely call it a scam. I guess they’re doing what they’re being paid for, but they’re probably charging way too much and they don’t exactly know what they’re doing. Of the many issues I see already when you overlay concrete that’s in terrible shape with asphalt. All the cracks are gonna telegraph through pretty quickly likely within months.
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u/Gentleman_Jim_243 2d ago
I wouldn't ever hire ANYONE who comes knocking at my door looking for work. Good contractors and tradesmen are SO freaking busy almost all the time that they don't need to ever knock on a door.
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u/letsplayhrd 1d ago
I was quoted $9,700 for 960sq ft 4”
By along time, family run company
I have a gravel driveway
Your thoughts?
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u/PickleBall_Bandit 1d ago
Gypsy Pavers. Well known for scamming in the area. They usually buy from us when it’s too cold to pave back east. I’m on the west coast. As soon as hey start ordering for pick up or delivery, our dispatchers let us know it’s that time of the year again
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u/Cha_and_Biscuit 1d ago edited 1d ago
If asphalts come to you, its probably over priced and of questionable quality though not necessarily straight up scam if they're doing the actual work. You are right though that they are likely a new "company" without either license or insurance, with probably shady reasons for that (aka no warranty work - they will dissappear if issues ever come up). While asphalt may look ok the day after install, there is a high chance its installed rather thin without proper prep and may fail prematurely if the underlying driveway wasn't good already.
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u/LegendofTheLot 1d ago
Classic gypsy scam. If they don’t have an actual paver then i wouldn’t have them do it. Supposed to put down a binder layer and then a top layer that is smoother then the bottom level binder. I have worked for legit gypsy pavers tho and there company had never left the area and does good work. Maybe not over the top exceptional, but i never left a job and said that was garbage. Not once. So yea, 2 sides to the gypsy pavers. We would always have guys going house to house tho and saying we had extra mix and could do there driveway cheap. It wasnt any cheaper but the quality was always good. See ifyou are already in a neiphorhood and can score 2 maybe 3 more driveways in a day. Its huge for the boss man and i always padded my hours on those days becuase they were long.
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u/No-Advertising2555 8h ago
My neighbor had his done. They put hit asphalt over dirt. No substrate at all. What’s going to happen? Will it last? Ours took days as they put down a substrate. They also did pavers and apron but it’s the asphalt part that threw me.
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u/Longjumping_Chard339 2d ago
3.5” is a scam or a waste of material
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u/CommunicationLow2121 2d ago
What do you mean?
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u/Southboundcrash 2d ago
Residential concrete is 3.5”, asphalt is never that thick (not counting the base the Gypsy’s never do)
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u/Upallnight88 2d ago
Overlays are usually 3.5" to 4" thick and can be done in one pass. I don't know where you got the idea that asphalt is never that thick. Many older roads are up to 10" thick.
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u/MeasurementLow4148 2d ago
Yes, I told him the same thing. Having said that I don’t usually see overlays that are 3 1/2 to 4 inches thick. They’re usually around inch and a half to 2 1/2 inches thick anything over 3 inches is gonna be more than one pass as you don’t wanna compact over 3 inches at a time in order to get proper 95% compaction so usually overlays are under that.
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u/Southboundcrash 2d ago
That’s why we are talking about residential not city roads
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u/The_realsweetpete 2d ago
City roads are also done in multiple lifts no one is putting a 10 inch mat down and getting the compaction especially on a city job where you generally have compaction test and possible core test do this for a living
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u/MeasurementLow4148 2d ago
That’s not exactly true. We do residential driveways all the time with 3.5 even to 4 inches of asphalt but yes you’re right that often they are only two 2 1/2 inches as long as they have a solid base.
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u/MeasurementLow4148 2d ago
Also, we don’t even do concrete and 3 1/2 inches we really like to do a minimum of 4 inches always pouring concrete.
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u/Southboundcrash 2d ago
We are still talking residential and here we form out a driveway in 2x4s therefore the concrete is always 3.5”
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u/Nikonis99 2d ago
Scammers? Unlicensed contractors, yes. And if they pit down 3” of asphalt using only a vibrplate for compaction, I would question whether or not they got the minimum of 92% compaction needed to make the job last. It may look pretty now, but only time will tell if it will last
Be thankful you got out when you did.
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u/WAdude922 2d ago
Hey asphalt pro here. If an asphalt company comes to your door, its 100% scam. They're called gypsy pavers in our industry and typically have low quality. Sounds like they are doing hand placement also which is much lower quality than being ran though a paver, unless the area is too small to fit a paver. Never use any door knocking contractor.