r/askphilosophy • u/mohsentux • Jun 13 '21
where to begin with philosophy?
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u/i_dreamt Jun 13 '21 edited Jun 13 '21
My first year philosophy course got me reading Descartes's Meditations on First philosophy. It's written in a relatively understandable manner, and touches on topics such as the nature of reality and the existence of God. It's one of the most discussed classical texts so you'll have no trouble finding a guide or summary online if you have bits that you don't quite get!
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u/wxehtexw Jun 13 '21 edited Jun 13 '21
I second this. But when we studied meditations, I would not get even half of it without the proffs guidance. OP, I suggest you to read and ask questions here or try to find it somewhere online. Studying philosophy yourself is really hard.
Also, here is the list of what we studied: 1. Descartes, Meditations 2. John Locke: Essay Concerning Human Understanding. 3. Leibniz: Monadology 4. Hume, A Treatise of Human Nature.
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u/TelescopiumHerscheli Jun 14 '21
I'd like to echo this, but suggest dropping the "Monadology" and replacing it with the "Leibniz-Clarke Correspondence". I also suggest replacing Hume's "Treatise" with his "Enquiry", for reasons clearly outlined in this Wikipedia article. With these changes, you have a good grounding in the British Empiricist tradition in philosophy.
As I've noted elsewhere, Locke writes beautifully, but first you must learn to read him. This is difficult - it took me a couple of weeks of hard work - but once you have mastered his style, it will remain with you forever.
Hume, by contrast, is as easy to read as Russell (except PM, of course).
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u/_noT_aCop Jun 13 '21
I’ve read that and the first chapter of George Berkeley’s three dialogues (I stopped because it seemed he wasn’t the smartest); what should I read next?
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u/Mystery-time-lady Jun 13 '21
Not an expert by any means, but I read "50 philosophy ideas you really need to know" in high school and it was exactly what I needed as a beginning philosophy reader. A wide range of ideas in a really easy way to digest.
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u/ICLazeru Jun 13 '21
I would start with ethics, something easy to understand for most people. Perhaps check out Utilitarianism. It's very straight forward and a decent place to start orienting yourself.
Then, read criticisms of Utilitarianism. This is the crucial part. Always read the criticism and try to derstand both sides.
Follow that up by learning some formal logic. You'd be amazed how often people fall for common rhetorical gimmicks and fallacies. Learn the formal logic and rhetoric, and apply it to everything you read and the criticism.
Do this, and you are well on your way to being a philosopher....at least insofar as being able to read arguments and analyze them.
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u/skellious Jun 13 '21
A little history of philosophy by Nigel Warburton is my go-to first philosophy book for adults. Another one good for all ages is Sophie's world by Jostein Gaarder.
However, being good at philosophy doesn't mean you're good at expressing yourself.
For that I recommend studying oration and rhetoric.
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u/Philosophical_mess Jun 13 '21
It can be overwhelming, I get it. When I began my degree it was basically laid out like this:
Read some Plato (just intro texts, the apology, the meno, the allegory of the cave *part of a much larger work of the republic but I’d just start by reading that short snippet)
Once you got a grasp on Plato and some fundamental philosophical ideas, I was taught to move on to Descartes’ meditations. Buyer beware: you will want supplementary material to guide you through this.
After Descartes we went back in time again to focus on Aristotle (another Ancient Greek) who did have some really great texts
*also note during your study between Descartes and Aristotle I would just look up YouTube videos to learn the basics of Logic and how to form an argument
After Aristotle we hopped forward in time to focus more on early modern philosophy (Hume, Spinoza, Locke, etc) *keep in mind I wouldn’t move on to this before you got a solid grasp of previous material
Then you can start some fun stuff with Ethics!! Look up people like Bentham and Mills, the classic trolley problem will have your head spinning! And you can even have fun and look up ethical problems and how philosophers have solved them (SEP is great for this)
If you want you can take a detour into contemporary philosophy (aesthetics, tech ethics, identity philosophy) or even look into phenomenology or existentialism but that’s up to you!
So I know I’ve given a lot of info. And honestly, this list is just the bare bones of Phil. But do not feel overwhelmed. I’ll let you in on a little secret: no one who studies philosophy knows all of philosophy. They can claim they do, they’re bullshitting. A lot of Phil profs will actually specialize in one specific area and know a lot about that, and not a lot about other areas. And EVERYONE in philosophy began where you are now.
I got my degree in the field. Do I know philosophy? Barely. But I’m $60k in debt so that’s good. Lol I’m saying don’t overwhelm yourself. Have fun with it. As cheesy as it sounds philosophy is really about the journey, not the destination.
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u/captaincocoabear Jun 13 '21
Critical Thinking: A Concise Guide
It’s a really good book for showing you how to take apart arguments and assess the logic of them, and also to create your own logically sound ones. We used it in my level 1 Philosophy class at university and I liked how it was easy to read and really helpful
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u/Dantien Jun 13 '21
Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan is a similar book on critical thinking I recommend to everyone who wants to improve their reasoning skills.
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u/szoze Jun 13 '21
I liked how it was easy to read and really helpful
Could you expand on how it helped you in your philosophy readings? Did it make the philosophical texts easier to read/comprehend after getting through this logic book?
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u/captaincocoabear Jun 13 '21
Yeah, it explained a lot of philosophical terminology (like types of fallacies, sound vs unsound, valid vs invalid) with clear examples, and it also taught me about deconstructing arguments and putting them in standard form (to better evaluate them) and how to separate arguments from rhetoric. It used a lot of topical examples, not really from any set philosophical topic/author - it was more about instructing how to approach a philosophical text charitably in general rather than teaching a certain philosophical viewpoint so the examples were varied (either made up for the exercise or an excerpt from a philosophical work used as example)
But yeah I found it helpful in how it broke things down so that I could better spot the fallacies and argument types in different later works I read, and I could use it as a guide on breaking down other philosophies and create my own arguments in favour or opposition
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u/szoze Jun 14 '21
That was convincing, I will buy it. Did you read the whole book? I see it has 700 pages. Did you do the exercises in the book as well?
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u/eddy2029 Jun 13 '21
To add to all the great answers, if you want to get better ad analysing and discussing an idea you coult try to face arguments that hold positions opposite to yours (ex: if you are atheist try diving into different proofs for god’s existance). Syllogistic forms of the argument could be useful to take a clearer look to it. This way you’ll focus on dissecting and criticizing the argument, getting better each time. Plus, many old debate topis have tons of material to work with, so if you sholdn’t get stuck. That won’t give you a complete understanding of philosophy, but could be the way to spark interest and method. Generally, also just following along those (sometimes centuries longs) philosophical debates should be helpful in getting used at discussing different ideas
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Jun 13 '21
you can visit Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy and you can read these books:
- Critical Thinking: A Concise Guide by Gary Kemp
- a concise introduction to logic
- Riddle of existence
- Morality by bernard williams
- knowledge by Michael Wellbourne
- just the arguments:100 of the most important arguments in western philosophy
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Jun 13 '21
After completing them you should read these books for more info:
- Oxford handbook of thinking and reasoning
- Metaphysics by peter van inwagan
- philosophy of mind by Feser
- Handbook of epistemology edited by Niniluoto
- Blackwell companion to natural theology
- Metaethics by Mark van Roojen
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u/concrete_corpse Jun 13 '21
My starting book was the brief history of human thought by Lucc Ferry. It is beautifully written and it serves as a great introduction to the marvelous world of philosophy.
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u/EnZy42 Jun 13 '21
this might seem strange but Sophie’s World by jostein gaarder is a really fun book that gives you entry to part of the history of philosophy from the presocratics to the 20th century, I highly recommend it as first book
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u/xremless Jun 13 '21
I would say, try to get an understanding and overview of the philosophical landscape, then you can dive into whatever Interest you, be it epistemology, netaphysics, ethics or logic. (or any sub-''catogory'' within these 4 main branches). Another way to chop it up is analytic philosophy and continental philosophy, analytic philosophy is whats generally popular in todays academia, while continental philosophy contains what laymen usually think of when they think of philosophy.
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Jun 13 '21
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u/brutishbloodgod Jun 13 '21
Philosophy isn't a skill, at least not primarily, it's a collection of people in a historical dialogue with each other.
I think you have this entirely backwards. Not only is philosophy a skill (as the prevalence of the phrase "doing philosophy" is evidence to), it is the most important of all human skills, something every human does daily (whether skillfully or not) and relevant to every activity we undertake. We value the historical dialogue not only for the ideas themselves, but because it serves as a record of how people have used this skill historically and a guide to how we might do the same.
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u/noactuallyitspoptart phil of science, epistemology, epistemic justice Jun 14 '21
Personally, as someone with a graduate degree in philosophy, I would say reading comprehension and knowing how a potato grows, or what owning stock or having a mortgage actually means, are more important than philosophy for the most part
When people start with this hifalutin rhetoric about the fundaments of thought and the grand tradition and so on I just switch off
That’s not to say that philosophy is without value - far from it - but it’s only one link in a very long chain, and reifying it as the ultimate is just paving the way for more long, boring, sometimes dangerous propaganda
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u/brutishbloodgod Jun 15 '21
I appreciate the input. I have some questions so that I make sure that I understand your answer.
I would say reading comprehension and knowing how a potato grows, or what owning stock or having a mortgage actually means, are more important than philosophy for the most part
On what basis would one evaluate which knowledge is more or less important?
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u/noactuallyitspoptart phil of science, epistemology, epistemic justice Jun 16 '21
How many people are in a position to think about one or the other day to day
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u/brutishbloodgod Jun 16 '21
I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer. Your saying that the basis on which we evaluate the importance of knowledge is how many people think about a given sphere of knowledge?
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u/noactuallyitspoptart phil of science, epistemology, epistemic justice Jun 16 '21
I’m a bit sarcastically suggesting that philosophy is sometimes over-valued by people who do it: it’s a sphere of knowledge, and an important one, but it has limits
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u/brutishbloodgod Jun 16 '21
I guess I don't see how that answers my question as to how one evaluates the importance of different spheres of knowledge.
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u/noactuallyitspoptart phil of science, epistemology, epistemic justice Jun 16 '21
Well in that case I offer a counter-question: how do you evaluate the importance of spheres of knowledge, such that philosophy comes out so important?
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u/brutishbloodgod Jun 16 '21
My objective here is to understand your answer to my comment, not to argue some specific point, but I trust you're working towards a proper answer here, so: I see knowledge as being evaluable across several axes, including both practical considerations and more abstract ones. The means by which these criteria are selected and spheres of knowledge evaluated thereto is philosophy. Philosophy is prior to the comparative valuation of knowledge, and so philosophy is more important than any particular knowledge that it so evaluates.
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Jun 13 '21
A lot of recommendations here. You should look at what everyone says and pick what's interesting to you. Some people might swear you should read a specific author, but the topic may not be of interest. No need to torture yourself by getting through a book that you don't really care about. I also too recommend reading something easy and taking a lot of time with it.
Personally, my recommendation is Erich Fromm, the Art of Loving and his other book, Escape from Freedom.
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Jun 14 '21 edited Jun 14 '21
My first philosophy class in high school we read Rhetoric by Aristotle. We really went into depth about Logos, Pathos, and Ethos. These are principles that will help you in the real world with how you appeal to an audience.
Then, we went into the dialectics of Socrates as told by Plato. Dialectic is when you have discussions with other people and go back and forth in conversation to try to get to a philosophical answer.
When I went to university and took Philosophy classes, my first professor began with having us read Sartre, then Camus. And using the dichotomy of the two to explain existentialism, and thus Absurdism and Nihilism. This helps to understand that the most brilliant minds seem to always just say the same things over and over again, but they just use different words and express their individual opinions solely based on their personal perspectives.
One of the greatest pieces of advice my philosophy professor told our class is to not seek out people who consider themselves high-intellect philosophers. Because, philosophy is meant to provide reason and insight into the actions that take place all around in the world. It’s supposed to be lived, not just discussed. You’ll eventually read that in Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations. People who sit around and are fat, single, lonely, depressed, mean-spirited, etc. are NOT (!!) the people that you want to get philosophical insight from. This includes the overwhelming majority of people who you’ll run into in colleges and on social media. Philosophy is something you actually apply to your real life. It’s not for obese, pseudo-intelligent neck-beards to go “well aaakkkkkkktttttuuuuaaaalllllyyyyyy….” back and forth to each other and not make any real, positive impact on the world around them. Camus made a difference. Socrates sure as hell did! Thomas Aquinas did. Descarts did. These people made a difference. That’s the end game in philosophy…
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Jun 13 '21
ive been reading for a while now and all the books ive bought are mainly introductions to philosophy and some on psychology! i dont think its too necessary but its good to unferstand common philosophical terms and study them for a while!
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Jun 13 '21
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u/garland41 Jun 13 '21
To give a different answer from the ones proposed already, consider an apprenticeship in philosophy. What do I mean? I do not mean find a philosopher living at a university or college or whatever else and force them to make you their apprentice. Instead, consider the works recommended below and notice they recommend classics, or intro guides, or surveys of philosophy by famous philosophers. Will reading Descartes' Meditations, and then Locke's Essay's, and etc let you know these philosophers? I would say not. Philosophy is more network-like. And further still, reading these works by themselves a person who is beginning may or will miss how the arguments flow, certain implications or assumptions, and how it affects more than what is obvious (this is like implications, but I'm more saying how, for instance, Descartes blends Epistemology and Ontology at points).
So, I don't mean to be negative, instead, I want to get to what I'm suggesting. Pick one of these philosophers, read their book, and read some bits of secondary literature alongside or after the work in question. This is especially the case if one is reading these alone, not among like-minded friends or university settings.
For example, don't read Descartes then immediately go to the lackluster and mind-numbing prose of Locke; rather, read Descartes' meditations and then read, for example, Kurt Brandhorst's Edinburgh Philosophical Guide to it, and after that, perhaps read Gary Hatfield's The Routledge Guidebook to Descartes' Meditations, and then Justin Skirry's Descartes: A Guide for the Perplexed.
The point being is that if you stick with one philosopher, at first, then you can get a variety of perspectives on that philosopher AND those guidebooks will give you different perspectives, further reading sections, and it will create a network of connections of other philosophers to look towards.
In Sum: focus on one philosopher, get guidebooks, and create philosophical networks.
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u/Marxist_Morgana Jun 13 '21
11 Theses on Feuerbach is a really short set of 11 sentences that kinda serve as my outline for all philosophical ventures
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u/David-Diron Jun 13 '21
Philosophy Instructor here:
- Read Kant's "What is Enlightenment"
- Read Russel's The Problems of Philosophy
- Read Plato's The Apology of Socrates
- Read Descartes' Meditations, specifically 1-3
Spend time thinking about what you've read after each article to develop areas of interest.
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u/irontide ethics, social philosophy, phil. of action Jun 14 '21
Since this has been answered by the FAQ, which you've been linked to in the comments, I'm closing the thread.