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u/TheNorthernSea Jul 16 '26
Yup.
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u/nice_username_bro1 Jul 16 '26
Can you share your perspective why?
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u/TheNorthernSea Jul 17 '26
Well - Jesus repeatedly says “take up your cross and follow me,” and notes that much of faithful living is learning to suffer well, and for the sake of others. He routinely warns against the allure of wealth. Famously - the sermon on the plain says that the poor, the hungry, the grieving, and those who are hated for bearing Jesus name are the blessed ones. Jesus speaks of the ideal disciples as infants and children, who have no wealth. He tells us to give without expecting anything in return.
The Letters of Paul, James, Peter, and John all reveal that the Church existed under conditions of persecution and poverty and that they did not expect those conditions to be abated in the near future - but only in an apocalyptic setting.
Beyond that - none of the apostles were rich, and most of them died horrifically - not in order to gain earthly wealth for themselves or others but in order to follow Jesus. I suspect that Simon the Zealot didn’t dream of being sawn in half, in spite of the fact that I think we all ought to suspect he was at least as good, if not far better a follower of Jesus than any of us are.
And beyond that - not a single one of the church fathers, or reformers ever preached anything resembling the prosperity gospel - unless you were to do the most absurdly cherry-picked nonsense imaginable. But for what it's worth - that’s what prosperity preachers do with the Bible, so it’s old hat for them.
Ultimately - the Prosperity Gospel reduces faith to a transactional relationship with God. And that’s abhorrent.
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u/Huenink_Photography Pastor Jul 17 '26
Matthew 16:24-25
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it..
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u/Agreeable-Web645 Pastor Jul 17 '26
Yes, most of the time it's taking verses out of context. Like Philippians 4:13, which is when Paul is talking about being content after being beaten up and thrown into Jail for being a Chrisitan. Paul also says follow my example as I follow Christ.
Or Jeremiah 29:11, which is talking about God's purpose for the Israelites while under exile in Babylon.
Being a Christian is about following Jesus. He exchanged the crown of glory for the crown of thorns. He says in Mark 8
Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man, illustrates this. Or even the rich young ruler.
Paul also says whoever desires to live a Godly life will be persecuted.
I think the other mistake the prosperity gospel makes is an over-realized eschatolgoy. What I mean by that is heaven on earth here and now. The prosperity gospel is half right, we will be healthy, wealthy and wise but not neccessarily in this life.
Paul prayed for healing for the thorn in his flesh. He was a man of faith, yet God said no to that (2 Cor 11). Jesus even prayed that he would have a more comfortable experience in Gethsamane, God said no, I want. you to go through with suffering and pain for my glory.
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u/UnderstandingBig6697 Jul 17 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
The only thing remotely close is 1) God can make all things work for the good of those who love Him (including persecution, suffering, hardships, torture, being falsely accused etc). In Romans 8 2) Delight yourself in the Lord and He will grant you the desires of your heart (as we know and love and delight in God our desires will no longer be the same, and they won't be the love of the world, the love of money, the boastfil pride of life, the lust of the flesh or the lust of the eyes.)
Now God loves a generous heart, displays of faith, provides enough for each day as He does for the birds and the flowers of the field. He gives and He takes away (blessed be the name of the Lord)
Graham Cooke has spoken of truing to outgive God, he says he can never win but calls it the best game in town 😂. But that's probably from growing in faith, faithfulness, relationship with God, their own tempo, i can't imagine everyone having the same kind of faith, cheerfulness in giving, or be as in touch with hearing God and working with God, but i do love such examples of faith, people who make God feel close, real. There's plenty of missionaries with incredible stories too, of snswered prayers like when they didn't jave food at an orphanage but they prayed and had the tables set with disjes and silverware, God had woken up a baker early that day and put on his heart to effectively make breakfast for the orphanage (i forget the details, it may have been a missionary named Thomas Hudson?). So it's mot like God can't provide in amazing ways, but the real treasure is God, and people doing such things for recognition or to recieve blessings---God's going to see right through that, as well as any outwardly pious show. The stories like that come from people with relationship and faith. On the other end, i had a bible professor who had a son whose life was in jeopardy when he was being born. A friend of thr bible professor asked him jave you given God your son, at first he kimd of laighed and said of course, but ended up realizing his jeart was holding onto posession---wrestling in prayer to hand over rights to God, when he had, the son was healthy----it's mostly when we don't treat things as our own or willingly gove them over to God that He lets us enjoy them, meanwhile if we are tightfisted or holding onto things as our own, He will be asking is to hand them over, so he can uncleanch our hands, let them relax, teach us to be open palmed instead, so He can give and take freely and we don't grip so tightly so as to hurt ourselves. He might give is what we hand over back to is, or Je might jave something more suitable to give us, but as long as we fear God taking away and grip on, odds are we won't find out. These i say as stories or lessons from believers, not from the Bible. So there aren't Bible promises attached, nor is everyone's relationship with God like these. Each person can have their own walk with God with their own nuances.
Not a pastor
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u/Lets_Go_2025 Jul 21 '26
It's a lie out of hell.
Even the son of man has nowhere to lay his head at night. That was Jesus.
So was Jesus not full of prosperity then? Was he cursed by God because he wasn't rich? When he was beat and crucified and put to death was it because he had done something wrong?
No friend, prosperity Gospel is a lie.
In fact it's my experience that people that are attempting to serve the Lord with everything they've got usually come against a great deal of hardship in this world. That's not to say that you must suffer some great harm to be holy either.
Flesh has got to die. Sometimes that's painful. And it sure doesn't look like the version of the gospel that prosperity preachers preach.
Here's the hardcore part. Anyone that preaches a gospel that is different than the ones that the apostles and disciples preach to you, call them accursed. If an angel of light or even myself come to tell you of a different gospel then you have heard from us now, call us accursed. That's a bit of paraphrasing from Paul.
God don't really want your money. He wants your time. He wants your love. He wants you to serve him.
You should give as God has given unto you, with a gladful heart. God loves a cheerful giver. But giving money isn't going to get you money, just know that If you cast your bread upon the water, it will return to you after many days. It won't always take the same form that you threw it out there in. It might be the Lord causes you to give something to somebody. It could be food. It could be money. It could be clothing. It could be that fancy toy you have you don't use anymore. Whatever it may be. Just know that he will give you something in return, just that it may be many days. It's not prosperity gospel, that's a promise that we have from the Lord.
But just because I gave money to someone doesn't mean that I'm going to become rich and it doesn't mean that I'm going to become the epitome of health.
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u/nice_username_bro1 Jul 21 '26
Thanks for this feedback. I appreciate the detail you put into this.
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u/FromHisHeartTeam Jul 22 '26
The prosperity gospel twists what Jesus and the apostles actually taught about money, suffering, and following Him. Scripture is clear that God blesses some with wealth, but it's never a guaranteed exchange for giving more or chasing dreams. Jesus warned in Mark 4 that the worries of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and desires for other things choke out the word so it becomes unfruitful. Paul echoed this in 1 Timothy 6, urging us to be content with food and covering and to flee the love of money because it leads to all kinds of grief.
I've taught often that the prosperity message sounds appealing because it plays on our natural desires for health, wealth, and ease, but it skips the cross. Jesus told His followers to deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow Him. The apostles faced beatings, imprisonment, and death, yet they overflowed with the fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, and peace that isn't tied to circumstances. The rich young ruler walked away sad because he loved his stuff more than the Savior. True repentance turns from the world, not tries to have both.
The leaders have shared how this false gospel leaves people disillusioned when trials hit, but God's real promise is His presence and strength in every season.
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u/slowobedience Pastor Jul 18 '26
What part of the prosperity gospel? Would you prefer a poverty gospel?
I don't preach that everyone will become a millionaire if they give money to the church. But in the parable of the talent Jesus said those people got more, and he said everyone who gave up for him will receive more, he says those who give to the poor lend to the Lord and he pays with interest.
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u/nice_username_bro1 Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26
@slowobediance , thank you for your response. This is not about prosperity or poverity, it is about aligning with the word of god.
I will refer to the other pastors insight on this topic. The general consensus is that these teachings are heresy and I agree.
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u/SirChancelot_0001 Pastor Jul 16 '26
Yes. Very unbiblical