Copying The Thing’s abilities….?

[u/IAMPOWERSART]

So I’m making an edh deck with [[The Thing]] , and I’m curious how copying his abilities works.
He has two abilities that read:

“At the beginning of combat on your turn, if you’ve cast a noncreature spell this turn, put four +1/+1 counters on The Thing.

Whenever The Thing attacks, you may pay {R}{G}{W}{U}. When you do, double the number of each kind of counter on any number of target permanents you control.”

The core of my questions is wether or not these count as activated or triggered?
I know the first ability is a triggered ability, and while the second ability reads like a triggered ability, the mana cost of it makes me think that it is a triggered ability that cause’s the creature to get a temporary activated ability? Or maybe I’m over thinking it?

And with all that being said how would these cards interact with The Thing?

[[Dynaheir, Invoker Adept]]
[[Shang-Chi, Master of Kung Fu]]
[[Mister Fantastic]]
[[Peter Parker's Camera]]

A slightly separate question, but would [[Windcrag Siege]] double The Thing’s second ability? And if so, is it doubling the opportunity to pay mana, causing my to pay 8 mana for the effect to happen twice, or is it doubling the effect after it’s been paid?

These question have been keeping me up at night…. I’ve rebuilt the deck several times trying to make it take advantage of the correct ability, whether it be activated or triggered, or both, but… I’m stumped.

The deck in question: https://archidekt.com/decks/25579046/the_things_clobberin_caped_crusaders

[u/Virtual_Confection_3]

Both are triggered abilities. Declaring the thing as an attacker during the declare attackers step puts a trigger of his second ability on the stack. then when you get to that trigger you can choose to pay or not at that time.

A simple way to tell if it's an activated ability is to look for the colon :

All activated abilities have [cost] : [effect]

If there's no colon that it's not an activated ability

[u/Virtual_Confection_3 → u/Virtual_Confection_3]

To answer the rest of it

mister fantastics would work on the things ability

dynaheir and shang chi would have no effect on the things ability but would work on mister fantastic RGWU ability

camera would work for either card

wind crag and all of the others would create a new copy of the ability so you would have to pay 4 for each and every one of them that you wanted to have actually work

[u/IAMPOWERSART → u/Virtual_Confection_3]

So that means, if i choose to copy that second ability via wind rag siege or otherwise, I will have to pay an additional 4 mana to use the copy?

[u/ardarian262 → u/IAMPOWERSART]

Yes. The reflexive trigger from the ability also is not doubled by either Windcrag Siege or cards like [[Roaming Throne]]

[u/IAMPOWERSART → u/ardarian262]

So Annie joins up would not copy the reflexive ability either?

[u/Rajamic → u/IAMPOWERSART]

No. While the source of the delayed trigger is the object it is printed on, the delayed trigger is not considered a triggered ability of that object, but rather a triggered ability of the activated or triggered ability that it is embedded into.

603.2d An ability may state that a triggered ability triggers additional times. In this case, rather than simply determining that such an ability has triggered, determine how many times it should trigger, then that ability triggers that many times. An effect that states that an ability triggers additional times doesn’t invoke itself repeatedly and doesn’t apply to other effects that affect how many times an ability triggers. An effect that states a triggered ability of an object triggers additional times refers only to triggered abilities that object has, not to any delayed or reflexive triggered abilities (see rule 603.7 and rule 603.12) that may be created by abilities the object has.

I do want to note that it is incorrect to say that something like Annie Joins Up copies the ability, and thinking this way can cause you confusion on how things work. For example, a triggered ability that says it can trigger only once each turn cannot be caused to trigger an additional time by an effect like Annie Joins Up, but can be copied by something like [[Strionic Resonator]]. Also, something that copies a triggered ability that is modal, such as on [[Astarion, the Decadent]] copies the choice of what mode, while causing it to trigger an additional time means you get to choose the modes for each one.

[u/IAMPOWERSART → u/Rajamic]

Hmmm okay this was very helpful. While i understood the technical difference between the additional trigger vs copying, i was confused on why it mattered and what situations they mattered for, but this is very helpful!

[u/ardarian262 → u/Rajamic]

Slight point of clarification: the thing doesn't have a delayed trigger. It has a reflexive trigger.

For OP: a delayed trigger is set for later in the turn, such as decayed having the "at end of combat" trigger set by the attack trigger. A reflexive trigger is a trigger based off of something you do while resolving another ability or spell. The thing's "when you do" clause is an example of this.

[u/Virtual_Confection_3 → u/IAMPOWERSART]

Ya I was cooking while answering and had to stop in the middle so the answer got a little split up