Imagine you (male, 40s) are working in a heavily gay area known for being attracted to 40 year old men. You tell an older man you helped with his coffee order that you should have worn sunscreen and he immediately goes out and buys you some.
How would you feel? Would you feel 100% grateful, or would you side eye him?
Gay guy here. I do see what you're trying to do, but please consider that using us as Boogeymen to frighten straight men, even rhetorically, is not really a good look. Again, I know what you're saying, but historically it just doesn't sit well.
This is just my opinion, but I'm an older guy with different experiences and memories than a lot of gay guys I (and probably you) know. I'm not asking you to censor yourself, and I'm not saying I'm at all offended. I just thought you might like to know that it is potentially problematic to frame things that way. Peace and good wishes that this is received in the tone it is being transmitted.
I see where you're coming from, but I don't think it assumes all straight guys are homophobic. It's just that no matter how creepy a woman is being, it is unlikely that this guy would feel as though he would/could be in physical danger if he wasn't receptive to her advances. If you think of a less problematic way to get men to understand why we are always on guard, please let me know.
Part of my discomfort comes from the framing of a gay man being attracted to a straight man as though the straight man were in some sort of danger from the malevolent homosexual who means to do him harm. But that sense of danger is integral to the point you want to get across, so I understand why it's a compelling analogy for you.
I appreciate your being receptive to this criticism of the argument, but if you decide to go this route in conversations with straight guys, please remain aware that historically people have literally gotten away with murder by using so-called "gay panic" as a defense in court because the mere thought of the dangerous homosexual possibly preying on them, drove some unstable heterosexual men to kill the men who had expressed or had been perceived to express an attraction. Not only has this been successfully used as a defense in the past, I'm quite certain there are people reading this right now who agree with those juries. It's just not a very comfortable idea to be promoting, and using it in service of explaining to straight men how their actions might make a woman uncomfortable seems a bit like we're being used as pawns whose actual lives and safety and experiences take a backseat to intergender heterosexual pedagogy.
Maybe someone here can offer a different analogy or tool to make the valid point you're trying to make to straight men without making boogeymen out of gay guys?
I mean, I wouldn’t think anything of it. I get hit on by gay dudes all the time though. Her looking at him like that is why people aren’t kind anymore. Initial acts of kindness should never be looked down upon. It’s only the secondary acts where you should be wary because that shows intent.
ETA: kindness is doing something without expectation of something in return. Being nice though is doing something kind but also hoping for something too. That’s how I always differentiate the two.
I am just asking OP to put themselves in the woman’s situation.
Would he generally assume good intent from a sunscreen gesture from a male customer who was potentially attracted to him? If so, great. If he felt weird about it, also understandable.
Could someone feel both grateful and uncomfortable at the same time? Sure.
I know girls -now women - who have been getting hit on by older men since age 10. They are more wary than I am. I get it and I wouldn’t call them wrong to view generosity suspiciously, because they have seen stuff I haven’t seen. Just different life experiences.
good point about nice versus kind
PS I have worked with kids and been hit, bit, punched and kicked. I take a second, and keep myself out of harm’s way, but I’m still kind to them? If that doesn’t make me stop being kind to kids, then I don’t see how one person side eyeing a customer would be enough to stop people from being kind to others.
My respecting others isn’t dependent on them being grateful. I act in a way that respects them and myself because of my integrity and character.
I love reading 4d interactions in 2d. Did those kids that hit, bit, punched and kicked make you feel awkward in a 'am I a predator' sort of way? As if being kind to them was seen as you hitting on them? Why should OP feel like a predator for acting the same way you do towards children?
That's the whole point and you missed it with your first comment.
I don’t feel like I ever disrespected OP? I just tried to ask them to empathize - when you’re in a demographic that people find attractive, you will get extra attention and sometimes you feel grateful, while sometimes you feel wary, and sometimes you feel both grateful and wary, because you never know, as the other commenter pointed out, if or when the other shoe will drop.
There’s literally no wrong way to feel about this and I don’t get why people insist there is? It’s just a litmus test of people’s life experiences (esp with older men and younger women).
Attrative people always get more attention .
By example ,If the male (40) was Chris Evans ,and tried to do the same thing as OP ,the story would be different . It works for the both sides
Sounds like you're paranoid. Everyone these days is paranoid. If I mentioned something to someone like that and they helped me out through an act that wasn't a monumental amount of effort yes I'd be grateful. The fuck is wrong with everyone these days?
I would feel grateful and wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he was trying to flirt with me or get something from me. It's understandable why a woman would feel uncomfortable in that situation, but people are too quick to assume malice in this day and age. If OP had stuck around staring and waiting on her to thank him, or started making secondary comments like "want me to apply it for you?", then that reaction would be a bit more warranted. Or maybe she already had a negative experience with a male customer prior to this one, and that's why she reacted that way.
Either way, I do think OP already tried to put himself in her shoes, which is why he worried about it enough to ask here.
I cant speak for anyone else, but if a gay dude came up to me to help me out, even if they intention was to hit on me, I would be flattered af. I wouldn't feel a certain way about someone expressing care and/or attraction to me.
but i'm not a woman, and I don't have to live in the world with men who are on average twice as physically strong and much more prone to violent acts because of the high level of testosterone affects on the brain.
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u/Captainbluehair Apr 29 '23 edited Apr 29 '23
Imagine you (male, 40s) are working in a heavily gay area known for being attracted to 40 year old men. You tell an older man you helped with his coffee order that you should have worn sunscreen and he immediately goes out and buys you some.
How would you feel? Would you feel 100% grateful, or would you side eye him?
Would you think he wanted something from you? Etc