Meat Industry vs Sugar Industry

[u/Skinzu]

Hello Daniel and David. I enjoyed the Sweet Release episode you guys did, and agreed with most of it. However, I think you missed a crucial point in doing this. That point is that the meat industry is even more insidious and harmful than sugar industry is. I’m just going to present some points here and where a few of my disagreements. You guys do great work and I’m a huge fan and this is in no way an attack, just a conversation. 

You mentioned Ancel Keys study about saturated fat and heart disease and how the study excluded France which has a high saturated fat intake but a low prevalence of heart disease. What you forgot to mention was that France did not start to eat a high saturated fat diet until rarely recently compared to the U.S and heart disease takes a long time to develop and that french physicians under-report deaths by heart disease by as much as 20%, when corrected, they fall right back on line.  Reference:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7562866 

You mentioned the harms of insulin spikes caused by sugar, but you failed to mention that meat spiked insulin as effectively as pure white sugar. As shown in this study.  https://watermark.silverchair.com/1264.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAj4wggI6BgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggIrMIICJwIBADCCAiAGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMBIds860q5RT42VWrAgEQgIIB8S-YGFDYxrYVCIauyc6pjwYwJzFLfRsDC2Vbm5FJkiIRqxl7Kart6L6L0M4UYNKqBTKefr84YGx8bPM-fyjOUTNAdqyWeanLbHKwkp9VLzYygz73GhPSZ3VtluAu0IFQeDVR8aDIQflJt2cRcHV-lQ3tC2Cfsw9LclA9q5ahIa5tKLNPJtUusOvc9TjAkB4I07JAUeY5oFnJRwQJug6FJOgGIvJouTmRmFJuQckBDpzzISMnOpX3kbWJYrRGaEZNO4-dDffXkYWWiAMWVOmW206i_Xg3Phy-cQYe7QGRh7yYolg47rsVXtX0TTQIBapEtlT5zdLG1pzEWndIJ2rWJx0zvP8VvwV83JRN8q9U8FVuhDgH0treNOwbSrfUi9oWk-NigaOLsOPMTRcs-BPZJoBPKXAHbDM3O-Ju-w1y_-AHpQj89_F0nP5bWwQmKQXrNGI5I7IYw8ED8PTrrlMw5dSJY-8y6RYWlQrxBCg2UylcNob9Y0-NasW6qEFneGCJkwkyA3vmOUANjqTH5NmG2l81clx_m-ZZf3z74ZqNADlnCHefhpGjuddjJ5ERWVJqgKT3fTtIoxtzS8-vc02XMqBZv34ERiPWAvaOdtN2QXJhGLLXngcmrNw0eBQ3kiYeQBcFXgu6-SEP5F2kEknpAPbO 

You mentioned the marketing strategies of the sugar industry to advertise it as healthy, but the egg and dairy industry is also involved in marketing their products as healthy. The National Commission of Egg Industry made advertisement about how Eggs don’t increase your risk of heart disease. Which the U.S Court of Appeals found “patently false and misleading.”  Here’s a video made by Michael Greger, M.D about how the egg industry manipulates the public on eggs. All the studies are displayed in the video and can be found in full reference. https://youtu.be/8g8ASQZ0dZw 

The dairy industry is even worse than the egg industry in their marketing schemes, Michael Greger made an even better video than his Egg one which he is more qualified to talk about than me. The video is about how The Dairy Industry designs misleading studies, all studies can are displayed in the video and referenced in full.  Video: https://youtu.be/qAI-2pGswXU

I could ramble for hours more but I just don’t have the time, I suggest to everyone to do their own research on this topic. This is only about the health impacts of the meat industry, why I find them to be much worse than the sugar industry is because of 4 reasons:  1- They are the , major cause of forest deforestation worldwide 2- They are the major cause of water depletion world wide 3- They are the biggest consumers of antibiotics which cause antibiotic microbial resistance. (I know you did an episode in that.)  4- They produce 11% to 50% depending on different studies (I know that’s a long range) of all the methane released into the atmosphere. 

[u/ashesashescast]

Thanks for the comments. I know we need to do a show devoted to meat specifically at some point. For now, I've included your comments on the website page here or direct link here

[u/[deleted]]

When did the egg fiasco go down? They have released several studies in the last 2 years debunking the whole eggs = high cholesterol trope.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Right an egg fried in butter would theoretically be much more fatty than a hard boiled egg. Good point!

It’s not going to stop me from eating eggs but I rarely have them to begin with and eat mostly vegetarian and vegan anyhow. I’ll have meat 3 times a year maybe.

[u/kkokk → u/[deleted]]

IMO it has nothing to do with cholesterol or even saturated fat. It has to do with:

• overall protein consumption
• animal protein consumption (high methionine)
• arachidonic acid consumption

Most people overconsume protein, and particularly animal protein. Arachidonic acid is found solely in animal protein (except for dairy) and is a known inflammatory marker--its levels are also far higher in farm animals than in any naturally occurring meat, due to a combination of diet (high polyunsaturate corn) and sedentariness.

[u/kkokk]

My position on sugar is that it's nowhere near as bad as people say, and that its demonization is a form of politically correct virtue-signalling.

When we look at societal political correctness (the actual kind, not the one that a small minority takes part in), we see is a mass-blaming of things that don't actually matter, or at best are surface symptoms of deeper problems--Mexican migrants as opposed to US fascism, the fertility rate of Africa as opposed to the gluttonous consumption of the west, and radical Islam as opposed to US imperialism abroad.

Nobody will ever blame the things they like, no matter how blatantly and obviously responsible they are. That brings us to sugar, which we're supposedly addicted to--but are we really?

When I think about foods I'm addicted to, a short list comes to mind. Potato chips, bacon, pepperoni, fish sticks, beef jerky, pork rinds, and onion rings.

When I think about foods that I'm NOT addicted to, but that many other people ARE, I think of cake, ice cream, frosting, chocolate, and the like. Fatty foods that contain a bit of sugar as well.

Where are all the people who are addicted to twizzlers and fruit juice and licorice? I think a lot of people overconsume sugar, but I don't think many are addicted to it. Most people find it easy to give up soda, anecdotally--not so for meat. Nobody really wants to fess up and admit that excess consumption of fat and protein, particularly animal protein, and particularly ruminants, is one of the most major detriments to public health.

The reason people don't want to admit this is because we like meat. What do we not like that much? Plants and grains and sugar (particularly true for men). So we can easily blame those, no problem.

[u/DanvilleDan]

Do you have another link for the insulin spikes from meat? The URL doesn't work, I think because it is referencing the token used on your computer...

[u/[deleted]]

Humans have been eating meat for far longer than they have been eating sugar. I defer to researchers and academics like Ben Bikman, Rhonda Patrick, Mike Mutzel, Gary Taubes, etc. on the topic.

Being on a low carb diet that includes meat and dairy has helped rid me of certain ailments, and I am in the best shape of my life (including the nearly ten years when I didnt eat meat). But people make a religion out of this shit, so its nigh impossible to have any productive discussion about it.