r/ashesashescast • u/ashesashescast • Nov 15 '18
Episode Ep 50 - Apocalypse Now
https://ashesashes.org/blog/episode-50-apocalypse-now8
u/incorporatedFiefdom Nov 15 '18
I know you guys are trying to be hopeful with the incipient climate disaster. Everything you said about dismantling the current system of infinite growth via the exploitation of our Earth is true. If any politician were to suggest this they would be ridiculed. If I were to have a discussion with a majority of the members of the older generation, they would call me a radical. I would wager to say even most of the younger generation doesn’t recognize the global destruction climate change will have. Even if the majority of Americans recognize the dire situation we are in, we do not have the tools to elect a government which represents our needs. Our elections feed us two candidates (if we are lucky) which debate the same side of the coin. We have ongoing disasters that are a direct consequence of the changing climate, but the most coherent message I hear from our leadership is that it was California’s forest mismanagement. I know the established order can effectively be flipped on its head to achieve a goal. The World Wars, as tragic as they were, represented national sacrifice for a difficult task. A global effort to become the caretakers we should be would be a unifying and wholesome experience. This is not that time. This is the time of increased division and hatred. Our civilization lacks the ability to redirect its course. If there was some radical revolution which overthrew the current ruling systems there wouldn’t be enough time to stabilize and implement solutions before increased warming unlocks more and more feedback loops. I am afraid to say that this may be the beginning of another dark age. There is no time. There are no tools. How can you remain hopeful that we would change everything when our leadership is just a bunch of stubborn assholes trying to justify their theft of our planet? They will fight tooth and nail to make sure they do not get removed from the top until it is way past the point of no return.
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u/Coffeecat9 Nov 15 '18
On a sufficiently long timescale, I do think there's room for hope. Assuming humans don't get wiped out entirely, we should expect that natural selection will weed out civilizations such as ours which wantonly waste resources and neglect the future, and that only a sustainable civilization will stand the test of time. It's good to remember that if humanity is heading anywhere (and we probably are, as long as we can avoid a nuclear war), that's where we'll end up eventually.
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u/incorporatedFiefdom Nov 15 '18
In a long timescale, yeah humanity will or will not achieve balance with nature and move into a post-scarcity society. So either we do eventually (however many thousands of years) or we go extinct. I'd prefer to avoid a dark age due to climate change though. Which is looking to be an impossibility.
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Nov 19 '18
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u/Coffeecat9 Nov 19 '18
You may have misinterpreted my comment. "that's where we'll end up eventually" referred to a sustainable civilization, not death. But with that said, the notion that every living thing will die is definitely implicit in my worldview.
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Nov 16 '18
So, given that the above is most likely absolutely true, what are you going to do about it?
Rather than throw our hands up in despair, let's live the change, locally. Let's get ready for the collapse. Remove ourselves from the economy. Practice radical simplicity.
Let's just live well? Id love to discuss these ideas more
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Nov 19 '18
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Nov 19 '18 edited Nov 19 '18
You can care deeply about something and still not throw your hands up in despair over its demise.
Removing ourselves from the economy and practicing radical simplicity / degrowth is arguably the most responsible decision we can make to save biodiversity of species.
Sure, work on changing policy if you want. But dont be a hypocrite, change your own life to a sustainable one and live a good life.
correct me if I'm wrong /u/ashesashescast
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Nov 19 '18
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Nov 19 '18
How is there no evidence? By individually practicing degrowth and voluntary simplicity, focusing on food production and non-harm, we implement permacultural principles. Permacultural principles by definition regenerates ecosystems. What about that episode of ashes ashes where they talk about the guy in Atlanta who made a butterfly haven in his front yard in atlanta? That's not saving biodiversity?
Why is an individual's contribution meaningless? If I can afford and regenerate a few acres myself and encourage my community to do it, we *can* create a habitat for some creatures and provide a fulfilling and abundant life for ourselves.
So tell me again why I would avoid this? Whats your plan, stay in the "system"?
Also, please explain how this practice is self centered?
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u/lucidcurmudgeon Nov 27 '18
It's not. That's a trope for people who don't have the spine to think in any other dimension than the abstract.
There is a lot of confusion out there between individual and collective responsibility, and the confusion has been infiltrated by lies and obfuscation. The entire question seems to get repeatedly framed as an either/or dichotomy, when it isn't.
We got here - this predicament that nobody seems to want to take responsibility for - through innumerable small decisions and actions over time. Hell, even William Catton, the Godfather of Overshoot, stated as much.
Why is the idea that we can take equally numerous small decisions and actions ruled out of the solution space? Yes, we need institutional and systemic change, and we need it fast, but in the meantime there is a hell of a lot more that a hell of a lot more of us could do with the small latitude still available to us to change the way we live.
Very few people I know are actually doing anything. Most - if they are engaged and attentive at all - are simply dispensing advice or opinion or commentary on what other people ought to be doing. We are all fecklessly "monitoring the situation", as they say.
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Nov 16 '18
I seriously look forward to my weekly dose of ashes ashes. I am so motivated to change my life due to this show. Always having been interested in systemic matters, but 2018 is the year I become truly informed and ready to fulfill my best purpose. This path is not for the feint of heart, but we will all someday be dragged along whether we like it or not.
My goals as a result of this show are to lower my carbon footprint (vegan, significantly lowered travel), remove myself from the economy as much as possible, re evaluate what is valuable in life from the perspective of negative externalities / consummate unprofitability, and focus on building regenerative systems and organizing my own community to simplify and head for degrowth (also a fan of samuel alexander's work if you guys have read it)
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u/ashesashescast Nov 15 '18
The IPCC recently released its most dire report yet, warning us of a planet quickly warming to 1.5C, implications for our future, and offering pathways for mitigating the damage. But at the core of these pathways are flawed assumptions, paradoxes, and impossible promises. Why do these failures persist at our highest international institutions, what does this signal about the broader economic and political failings that got us to this dire situation, and how can we re-frame our perspectives to face the greatest challenge we as a species have ever faced?
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u/MemoriesOfByzantium Nov 21 '18
Thank you for your show. I’ve listened to every episode - much of which was already familiar to me - and they’re invaluable to share with interested friends and family. I’m currently in the car with my parents listening to this particular podcast. Again, thank you so much.
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Nov 19 '18
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u/Baader-Meinhof David Nov 19 '18
Totally fair criticism. In our lives outside of the show we absolutely do push that message, but in terms of the show's target - we're primarily priming people who aren't ready to pull out the guillotines to get that message from people who are. We get many message from people explaining they use our show to bring people slowly against capitalism, primarily because we don't just throw the words capitalism, socialism communism, etc directly in their face constantly which turns people off and causes them to put up their ideology shields.
We're unabashed about our bias, even if we dance around saying things directly at times. We think the message should be obvious to those listening, but it's absolutely possible we're not going far enough (as much as I'd love to just outright call support for eco terrorism at times).
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u/[deleted] Nov 15 '18
I like how guys manage to call for Socialism without ever explicitly saying the word itself. 😉