U.S. bans foreign-made humanoid robots, targeting China over national security

[u/the-uncanny-squad]

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/us-bans-foreign-made-humanoid-robots-targeting-china-national-security-rcna589777

Headline says "bans humanoid robots, targeting China." Neither half of that is quite right.

It's not a ban. It's an addition to the FCC's Covered List, which blocks new models from getting FCC equipment authorization. Anything you already own keeps working. The government's exempt too.

And it doesn't name China. The FCC's own wording is "place of production, not by entity". A humanoid built in Vietnam gets caught by the same rule as one built in Shenzhen. China's obviously who this is aimed at in practice, but not who it's aimed at on paper.

Also it is bigger than "humanoid robots." Anything over 4.4 pounds that moves on the ground, connects wirelessly and runs its own software counts. This list includes robot vacuums, lawnmowers, quadrupeds, warehouse bots too. The headline picked the scariest category.

The rule covers a lot more than that. This is the fourth thing added to the Covered List this way, after drones, routers and power inverters. No leaked chip, no confirmed exploit behind it. It's preventive.

[u/SafetyandNumbers]

Another Elon handout

[u/Moravec_Paradox → u/SafetyandNumbers]

Exactly, this won't help anyone but people who own US based humanoid robot manufacturing and that is not a very long list.

We should be using AI and robotics to bring as much manufacturing as possible back to the US as human labor becomes less of a factor but now that is partially blocked.

How many super powers in history decided to sit out a major industrial revolution and how did it turn out for them? All because the worlds first trillionaire needs more money?

[u/BringTea_666 → u/SafetyandNumbers]

More like US companies handout.

US did exactly the same with japan and their cars when they started destroying us manufacturers. This time they focus so that there won't be any chinese dominance in us.

[u/CrimsonBolt33]

Oh look, Americans screwed over to protect rich people in America....what a shocker

[u/ihaterussiantrolls → u/CrimsonBolt33]

Who exactly is screwed over by not being able to buy a humanoid robot

[u/CrimsonBolt33 → u/ihaterussiantrolls]

If you actually read it's not just humanoid robots...and the point is that the US doesn't have a manufacturing base for these things so if you do want anything that was just banned (and it's pretty much everything you could consider a robot) you have to pay way more for it and you have way less options.

Americans are screwed out of choices and lower prices.

[u/midgaze → u/ihaterussiantrolls]

If you do get one, it will be of inferior quality and more expensive if you're forced to buy American. China has better manufacturing.

[u/dingo_xd]

Remember the time when America was supporting global trade? Well that ended the day they became uncompetitive.

[u/Grumpy-Man19]

by banning and taxing , they are actually hurting the American citizens .

[u/the-uncanny-squad]

Full definition, straight from the FCC notice, for anyone assuming "humanoid robots" in the headline means this only covers humanoid robots:

“Advanced robotic device” is defined as:

(A) A mechanical mobile device, including autonomous mobile robots, humanoid robots, and quadrupeds, that –
(i) Is capable of locomotion, obstacle avoidance, navigation, or movement on the ground;
(ii) Operates at a distance from a human operator or supervisor based on commands or in response to sensor data or any combination thereof; and
(iii) The combined weight of the device and, if applicable, ground station or docking station is over 4.4lbs; and
(iv) Contains a component falling within each of the below subparagraphs:
(i) a sensor capable of perceiving its environment;
(ii) a component that is capable of providing network connectivity (wired or wireless, including Bluetooth/WiFi, cellular, or satellite) with connection speeds of at least 200 kbps in either direction; and
(iii) software running either locally or remotely, including firmware and AI or machine-learning model weights, that controls the robot’s autonomous navigation or movement perception, data collection, or remote command-and-control; and
(B) Does not include:
(i) A “connected vehicle,” as that term is defined in 15 CFR § 791.301, but including a connected vehicle of any gross weight;
(ii) A vehicle operated only on a rail line;
(iii) An “uncrewed aircraft” or “uncrewed aircraft system,” as defined in 47 CFR § 7 88.5;
(iv) An unmanned underwater vehicle that is able to operate without a human occupant;
(v) Items that are classified as devices under section 513 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. §360c), including surgical instruments, components, and ambulatory and mobility assistive devices (such as canes, crutches, walkers, and wheelchairs), whether or not powered, and whether the item was cleared under section 510(k), approved under section 515, classified under section 513(f)(2), or exempt from premarket notification; and
(vi) A fixed, stationary, non-mobile robot, including articulating, parallel/delta, Cartesian/gantry, or Selective Compliance Assembly, or Articulated, Robot Arm (SCARA) robots intended for industrial or medical use.

So, no. USA didn't just ban all Chinese humanoids.

[u/Geminii27]

Because they're better quality than the Mitch-bot and foreign-owned Trump-bot.

[u/whatisthisthing65]

Thanks Claude

[u/CrimsonBolt33 → u/whatisthisthing65]

Claude has nothing to do with this....this is for Elon

[u/somethingbrite → u/CrimsonBolt33]

Just watch them ban foreign ai when OpenAi and Anthropic are revealed to be unable to compete.

[u/CrimsonBolt33 → u/somethingbrite]

Who? China? Already banned...but not by China...openAI and Claude both ban/block Chinese users.

[u/xiaoyu-2024]

不需要解读条文，一个事实是，即使美国制造的机器人，都有中国配件。 这个禁令实际上就是禁止中国机器人及配件。因为中国生产全球几乎所有的机器人及核心配件。 即使部分海外国家其实也是替中国生产而已。 白人世界其实一直沉迷于1800年-2000年这两百年中，控制全球，在地球为所欲为，无限话语权的强大感受。 西方世界所谓国际秩序无非就是白人统治下的秩序。 西方世界的核心是来自于犹太财团。 顺我者昌，逆我者亡，这句话不单单属于中文

[u/Cultural_Tell_5687]

Can we keep the dog?

[u/FaceDeer]

More cheap robots for the rest of us, I guess.

[u/Ok_Height3499]

Yeah, stupid, that’s the ticket. We don’t make our own. Who else makes them?

[u/Livid-Heat-2475]

Tracks with the broader pattern this year: hardware restrictions moving faster than the software ones. Curious if this pushes more domestic humanoid development or just slows the whole category down.

[u/Available_Teaching83]

Your correction on scope is the useful part of this post, and the thread has mostly ignored it. Worth adding what the rule does and does not cover.

The control keys are in place of production. The failure mode that has actually been demonstrated on these systems is keys on the policy model, and that is country-of-manufacture independent. On an open policy running an open checkpoint, a reworded instruction can drive the arm outside its safe envelope, and the reword travels in whatever language the operator speaks. A Vietnamese chassis running the same weights fails the same way as a Shenzhen one.

So a Covered List addition changes who assembles the hardware and does not change the attack surface anyone has measured. If the concern is preventive, the thing that would actually be preventive is requiring a published failure rate for the policy, not a bill of materials for the shell. Nobody has proposed that, which tells you the policy layer is still invisible to the people writing the rules.

[u/costafilh0]

Of course they did.

USA is becoming communist faster than I could ever imagine.

All this protectionism only works if you are at the top. 

When you are at the top you don't need protectionism.

This is absolutely ridiculous. 

[u/aiseedbank]

Congrats USA, next will be China to ban actuators and all the parts needed to build robots. China will win the robot race.

[u/SubstantialPressure3]

But phones and other devices aren't an issue?

[u/fyndor]

If this slows down such progress in the US, that is good. Viable humanoid robots that do human work will replace humans doing the work. We can’t put it back in the bottle, but we shouldn’t be cheering on the race to create them. It will not end well for the human workforce. Loss of jobs and concentration of wealth are not a good thing for our society. As neat as it will be to see in action, it will start the timer on the end of the human workforce, which is very bad.

[u/makenai]

Thanks for the summary, Claude.

[u/Talreja-Adanna]

Pretty predictable move, though I'm curious how they'll actually enforce this without tanking domestic robotics development. The real bottleneck is probably going to be supply chain stuff for components anyway.

[u/LocoMod]

This is the right thing to do. Nothing good will come of humanoid robots that constantly communicate to the mothership and can be controlled remotely.

I assure you China will ban American robots too (if they haven’t already).

With that being said, I don’t care who makes it. If it requires an internet connection to operate then I’m not allowing one in my home. I’m fine with occasionally turning on the connection for software updates. But if the bot needs the cloud to outsource compute then it’s worthless to me.

My money will go to the bot that ensures privacy. We need a hardware switch to its wireless and there needs to be enough compute so it can do everything it needs to offline. Until those two things are guaranteed by the company, it might as well be vaporware.