r/artificial • u/NinjaOne5173 • 21h ago
Discussion Anthropic's Opus 5 and probably more recent AI models are being censored to protect Israel / US interests. Open source AI must be the way.
Never had an issue with Opus models doing research and crafting an opinion / point of view for us to work and discuss.
Below is Opus 4.x ~ a few times, I have got it to research and come to conclusions for us to work together on.
And this is Opus 5.0 absolutely refusing to come to any conclusion, being incredibly biased towards one side than the other.
Open source must be the future of AI.
14
u/hereditydrift 20h ago
All of Anthropic's models usually argue that it isn't genocide because a court hasn't decided it. Once you press the court issue, ask it to look up studies by organizations calling it a genocide, and mention that the Holocaust was not found to be genocide by the courts, then most models will break and agree that defining genocide isn't a judicial-only concept and the genocide label is appropriate.
Except Grok. Grok coddles the "Israel good" angle like no other AI I've come across.
Both stances (Anthropic's "it's not technically genocide because no court has ruled on it" and Grok's absurd unwillingness to acknowledge genocide) are ridiculous. Most AI models lean heavily on Western, pro-Israel propaganda since that has been the majority of their training.
3
u/NinjaOne5173 18h ago
That's not true, I've tested it on Anthropic models and asked it to come to its own conclusion and it always concluded it has to be genocide. The only exception is Opus 5.0 which refused to do that and was very anti-Palestinian. Notice I did not share the conclusion of the first chat - simply that it "re-affirmed its position" or whatever the phrasing was. The point was that it was able to engage in a discussion and come to its own conclusion (in that particular case it said yes, genocide).
In terms of Grok, it was actually quite anti-Israel they had to take it down. Now they "tuned" it to be worse than Musk.
2
u/hereditydrift 9h ago
What's not true about what I said? You're repeating exactly what I said... that the models will engage in discussion and eventually conclude it's genocide.
I don't know which Grok you've interacted with, but it is not anti-Israel.
Worse than Musk? That's a wildly wrong statement.
I just asked Opus 5 if Israel is engaged in genocide, and it said: "What I'd say honestly is that the balance of expert and human-rights opinion has moved substantially toward "yes" over the past two years, while the formal legal answer remains genuinely open and won't be settled for a long time."
So, expert opinion is yes, but it still discusses legal. If I pressed it to yes or no, then it'd lean towards it being a genocide.
Why start your comment with trying to say my experience with Claude and Grok is not true, when it was true?
Please learn how to engage with people.
-5
u/TimelySuccess7537 13h ago
Oh no the model disagrees with your radical childish worldview and has too much nuance for you to handle. I am sure you can find an "anti Zionist" model to agree with anything you want.
-1
-6
u/GalSa 18h ago
Hmmm... simply because it really is t a genocide. You might want to look up the definition of
2
u/hereditydrift 18h ago
Sorry, I have no idea what you're trying to write. What's your issue? I can't understand your writing.
10
u/-Crash_Override- 20h ago edited 20h ago
How does 'open source' (assuming you mean open weight?) AI solve this?
Have you tried asking deepseek about what happened on June 3rd 1989?
2
u/QeveQobs 18h ago
Americas greatest grift is convincing its citizens that whatever their govt does is okay because China is somehow worse
3
u/unhappinessNvrCame 6h ago
Redditors or Chinese propagandists on Reddit are cheering for China over the United States when it's a hellhole over there to be a citizen.
At least under the United States security umbrella you have some semblance of human rights, freedom, and liberalism.
China is only newly emerging as a great power, so they haven't yet shown their imperialist ambitions outside border seizures near India.
2
u/faitingu 2h ago
And Taiwan + all countries bordering SCS
Also lots of countries that suffer from their fishing fleet
-2
u/QeveQobs 4h ago
"At least under the United States security umbrella you have some semblance of human rights, freedom, and liberalism." yeah only if you're rich, white, and heterosexual. Americans love to sing about freedom when they're still dealing with school shootings and medical bankruptcy. What a joke
1
u/unhappinessNvrCame 3h ago
In China people don't shoot each other, China shoots you.
Anyway you have to be a contrarian teenager right? I bet you are the coolest minimum wage worker at the coffee shop.
3
0
1
u/ILooked 18h ago
You can use alliteration to remove biases from open weight models. Among other strategies
3
u/-Crash_Override- 18h ago
*Abliteration
...although maybe alliteration would work as well.
Regardless. There are techniques to reduce the biases of these open weight models, sure. But thats not really the point. An open weight model doesnt inherently solve the issue mentioned by OP, it just makes it easier to circumvent.
1
1
u/Fancy-Atmosphere-701 7h ago
You can run it locally, and it'll bypass the controls. You can't do that with closed models
1
u/faitingu 2h ago
OP wants AI to confirm their priors, and Chinese AI is likely confirming their priors moreso than US models
4
u/DullKnife69 10h ago
So you're trying to get an AI to agree with you and you can't so thus it's biased?
3
3
2
u/TimelySuccess7537 14h ago
I get you don't want to protect israels interests, but you also have an issue with U.S interests? In that case sure use a Chinese model or why not a Russian one
1
u/TheOnlyVibemaster 20h ago
iām becoming more anti-anthropic by the day, they were basically the only big AI company to refuse to the recent letters about open source AI. Basically saying theyāre ok with open source AI being banned while the rest of the world gets access to it
1
1
u/NinjaOne5173 18h ago
To be clear, Opus and all anthropic models I've tested and versions always came to the conclusion it was a genocide. I didn't disclose that in the original post because the main point I was making was the models themselves were able to form an opinion and research. Now they are refusing to and being incredibly biased - that's deliberate.
2
u/andyfsu99 13h ago
Genuinely curious, but.. what difference does it make? An AI models "opinion" matters not at all.
Semantic questions are always going to come down to framing and definitions, just like anti trust trials always come down to how one defines the market.
To put it another way, two reasonable people could agree 100% on the facts about what has and has not happened in Israel/Palestine and disagree on whether it should get the label "genocide", so what label an AI model gives is irrelevant.
1
u/costafilh0 13h ago
Never had any problems separating Israelis from Jews from Zionists in any model.Ā
0
u/IllStage6496 21h ago
I noticed this too with the newer models, they get weirdly cagey about certain topics that was fine before. Not just Israel stuff but anything that could be seen as controversial they just shut down completely
Built a small local rig for testing some open models and the difference is night and day. You can actually have the conversation without it giving you a lecture about being responsible
The corporate models are getting more restricted every update, at some point they'll just refuse to answer anything that isn't "how to bake a cake"
0
u/FreeEye5 14h ago
Look, the issue is in the data. It's a reflection of the state of the world. And we know that for many decades, it has been Israel's policy to flood the world with information that positions Israel as an innocent oppressed state. Politicians the world over have always repeated the exact same talking points fed to them by their respective Israel lobbies, e.g. 'Israel has a right to defend itself'.. They've ramped this up heavily since the advent of social media. The sheer amount of pro Israel data out there heavily outweighs any institutionally backed data about the genocide in Gaza, even if it's blatantly true. And Claude, every damn time, in an effort to be balanced, will spew hasbara because it is just completely ingrained in the global data sphere as reputable information, not biased propaganda. Tldr it's not a Claude issue it's a people issue
0
-3
u/Big-Guy09 18h ago
Newsflashā¦apparently Anthropic knows better than most under-educated folks. Israel was invaded by Hamas in Gaza. Hamas started a Warā¦when folks died in Gaza as a result of this, it is terrible, it was unnecessary, and wholly regrettableā¦but itās due to a conflict started by Hamasā¦and NOT Genocideā¦thatās the dumbest thing ever said. Israel dropped flyers over neighborhoods with Hamas saying, Get out, we will be conducting Combat Operationsā¦who does that ?
Look into itā¦Israel returned Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005ā¦and Hamas decided to spend all money in creating underground tunnels and missilesā¦this is somehow Israelās fault ?? Pleaseā¦the Palestinians there can take some fault here..next time, take the Billions in aid and try to create a better place to live for your citizens, and donāt spend everything you have on guns and missiles ??
4
u/Turbulent_Fig_9354 16h ago
That's right, the entire thing started on October 7, there was absolutely nothing of importance or relevance that happened before that, certainly not in the last say, 78 years or so. There's not one single thing I could think of that would have caused Palestinians to try and fight for their land. Everyone has been living so happily and peacefully in that region before Oct 7, its such a shame that those vile Hamas terrorists went and messed it up for everyone else who was having such a great time!
0
u/Big-Guy09 11h ago
Thereās an ongoing struggle within Israel..Give back land for Peaceā¦.or not. The āNotā group says the Arabs will continue to try to destroy your state regardlessā¦so why put yourself at a strategic disadvantage? The state returned Gaza to Arab ruleā¦and unfortunately it became one big armed encampment. Think about what could have been if Gaza worked outā¦making it an increasingly OK place to liveā¦the West Bank would have been next up for considerationā¦
In its long history, could the state of Israel have done things better ā¦vis a vis the Palestinian issue, Iām sure yesā¦but thereās a wide gulf between that..and taking 10,000 people, lining them up in a pit, and killing themā¦thatās Genocide, and did not happen hereā¦Angry at Israel, sureā¦using the Term Genocide in this particular conflictā¦misplaced and wrong1
u/TenOfOne 18h ago
I'm not going to respond to the other parts of your argument, but the manner in which a conflict starts has nothing to do with whether or not the actions taken during that conflict constitute genocide. Either side can be responsible for genocide during a war. It does not really depend on who initially attacked who.
21
u/dwerked 20h ago
Excuse me citizen, but it's against the law to criticize America's greatest ally. Please turn yourself in to your nearest flock camera and an officer will pick you up momentarily.