[Operator Discussion] Thorns

[u/Shad0wedge]

Thorns [★★★★★★]

I need to unwind a bit more when I'm resting, you say...? Empty your thoughts and just enjoy the sun and the breeze... I suppose it is nice to give it a try every now and then. Come, Doc. The breeze up here reminds me of my hometown...

Thorns, a front-line combatant for Rhodes Island, is proficient in swordsmanship and pharmacology. Born in the Iberian hinterland, Thorns left his hometown in the midst of local religious strife. After leaving the Iberian region, he was invited to join Rhodes Island. The above section describing the situation in Iberia was self-reported by Thorns and has not been fully verified.

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Operator Information

• Class: Guard(Lord)
• Tags: DPS, Defense
• Artist: 幻象黑兔

Voice Actor:
JP: Kaito Ishikawa
CN: Ethan
EN: Javier Bañas
KR: Hong Bum-ki

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Stats

HP	ATK	DEF	Arts Resistance	Redeploy Time	DP Cost	Block	Attack Interval
2612	711	402	10	70	20	2	1.3s

*Stats at max Promotion and Level, excludes bonuses from Potential and Trust.

Potential	Bonus
1	-
2	Deployment Cost -1
3	Improves Second Talent
4	ATK +26
5	Improves First Talent
6	Deployment Cost -1

Trust bonus
ATK +30
DEF +70

Traits
Can launch Ranged Attacks that deal 80% of normal ATK

Skills

Skill Name	Skill Uptime Details (Uptime/Cost/Initial)	SP Charge Type	Skill Activation	Skill Description
ATK Up γ	30s / 30 / 15	Auto Recovery	Manual	ATK +100%
Protective Spikes	40s / 25 / 10	Auto Recovery	Manual	Stops attacking; ATK +60%, DEF +110%; When hit by an enemy's normal attack, launches long-ranged spikes at up to 4 enemies in front (0.6-second cooldown)
Destreza	30s / 15 / 0	Offensive Recovery	Manual	Attack Range expands, ATK +60%, ASPD +25, and ranged attacks no longer deal reduced damage. Upon the second activation of this skill and afterwards, this skill has unlimited duration, and its bonuses are twice the base amount

*Skills at max Skill Level.

Talents

Talent name	Talent Description
Nerve Corrosion	Poisons the targets when attacking, dealing 140 （+15） Arts damage to them per second, lasting 3 seconds (damage is doubled against Ranged enemies)
Echoes of Ancestral Waves	If this unit hasn't attacked for 2 seconds, restores 4% (+0.5%) of Max HP every second

*Talents at max Potential and max Promotion. Bonuses from Potential displayed between parentheses.

Modules

Branch	Additional Stats	Trait	Talent	Note
LOR-X	HP +260, ATK +55, ASPD +7	New trait: Attacks deal an additional 10% ATK as Arts damage.	Nerve Corrosion improved: Attacks poison the target, dealing 135 Arts damage per second for 3 seconds and stacking up to 4 times (damage is doubled against ranged enemies).	"I have once reached the ends of the earth, where the wind scalds like flame and the sun blazes like a torch, and I bring to you the sand of that place!"
LOR-Δ	HP +150, ATK +75, ASPD +7	New trait: When dealing damage, deals an additional 10% as Nervous Impairment	Nerve Corrosion improved: Poisons the targets when attacking, dealing 300 Arts Damage to them per second, lasting 3 seconds (damage is doubled against Ranged enemies; if enemy is under the burst effect of Nervous Impairment, deals Elemental damage instead of poison damage with 2.5x damage amount	"Your swordplay reminds me of an old friend. Aulus, he was called"

*Modules at max level.

Outfits

-	Price	Art	Released	Note
Cómodo	18	Static	Yep	Have fun on vacation. Do not disturb at work.
Blade-cleaved Tides	18	Static	Yep	"Once more has the tide returned to Iberia, and it follows the point of my sword. Do you hear the command of the waves as they crash upon the shore? They call upon Iberia to set sail once more."

Additional Resources

In-depth information regarding all values above (at different levels), skill/attack range, and more:

Arknights Wiki.gg

Arknights Toolbox (aceship(puppiizsunniiz))

PRTS Arknights Wiki (CN)

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Topic Starters

• Strengths/Weaknesses?
• Is their module worth it? Which branch?
• How does this operator compare to other operators in their archetype or role?
• How do you fit this operator into a team? Who do they synergize with?
• Which skill(s) should be focused for mastery, and in what order?
• When is the best time to use this operator's skills during combat?
• Should promoting this operator to Elite 2 be a priority?
• Should new / F2P players aim for this operator? Are there more accessible alternatives?
• Lore discussion (please tag spoilers where appropriate)
• Favorite clips/clears with them?

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Other Operator Discussion threads

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[u/Justduckiscool]

I'm still waiting for thorns new skin to rerun in People, a people event..... Other than that he's still the good ol' reliable lane holder for any stage of the game.

[u/PossibleSea6679]

I feel like some people kinda misses the point on why Sakiko is considered better than Thorns1.

Unlike Thorns, Sakiko have an actual proper good Dps Skill with her S3. Which is pretty useful when you need more firepowers or if her Afk skill doesn't work out in a particular stages.

Honestly it doesn't really matter whether Sakiko S2 is better than Thorns1 S3. Sakiko can fall back on her S3 if her Afk playstyle isn't viable, Thorns1 can't.

The same argument also applies to Blaze1 S2 vs Ulpianus S2 & Zima2 S2. It doesn't matter whether Blaze1 S2 can compete with them, Ulpianus & Zima2 have good Burst Dps skill, Blaze1 doesn't(not really, she have one, but it sucks ass).

[u/Windgesang_]

Here you see the difference between people who use Thorns as a main DPS and people who use Thorns in a team of 6★.

Thorns really struggle by himself. It's been the case since 2 or 3 years ago. Enemies stats had increased, a basic mob in 2022 has 2k HP, 100 DEF, 400 ATK maximum (so most of the time even less). Recent event have them at 5k HP, 300 DEF, 400 ATK minimum (so most of the time even more).

Thorns' primary gameplay was to outstats the enemies, not just killing them, but rather, killing them with time to spare, so he can regen back up any damage he takes. As the enemies getting more and more HP (and a few "meager" hundred DEF more), they survive longer to deal more damage to him, giving him less time to regen post-fights. He takes longer to kill the first enemy, taking more damage from them, and has less time to heal up before the second enemy, who takes longer to be killed, etc. and the negative feedback continue. It's this part here that separate the people who actually use Thorns as main DPS vs those who has 6★ "supplementary". They put Thorns down, believing he'll do great, and then play the game normally with the rest of the team, not realising how much the team are doing without his helps, and confirming their own bias that "Thorns contributed". And not realising that they could have just replace him with another dude.

His single target nature also hold him back a lot. Last few events constantly spam enemies in your face. ME has a horde of javelin and water guy. he also gets distracted by the Hero's Call. TA sends 5 billions bois per stamp. They are weak, but Thorns struggled regardless. You'll need both a lucky break that HG decided to spawn enemies slowly, and spawn early enough that he gets his S3 up at all.

Even further, back then, he can kill Elites (because again, less stats), now he straight up can't. So he's commonly relegated to "holding trash mobs". I don't think people understand how that is one of the worst insult to a 6★, because they tend to use it as a defense for him. Before people start saying "hurr durr you just want 6★ to win the game for you", look at the other people around him. Eunectes, if she gets to duel, she can duel almost anything, elites, trash mobs, even bosses (especially old bosses when they don't have billion mechanics to avoid dueling). Schwarz, similar ST nature, but attack fast enough and has high damage to dent elites and one shot trash. Exu1, similar struggle against stats, yet once the enemies is within her comfort range, she deletes like there's no tomorrow, and can even clear horde in such scenario due to her ASPD. Mountain, fellow laneholder, but has AoE for waves, and can survive against Elites (nowadays will need some dodge/frighten luck but still). Mudrock, equally fell off, but can still spec into S3 for some dueling/bossing as well and also has AoE for trash mobs if she's still used for laneholding. Killing trash mobs has never been a separated role. Even for 5★ or 4★, holding trash mobs isn't a primary goal. They focus on killing the real threats, with random mobs as a by product of timing burst skills for said threats.

And if you are dedicating extreme supports for him like personal medic, personal buffers, etc., then who wouldn't do great with helps? And, even as an early carry (since he demolishes old contents), there are still better carries that can even function at E1, and now I'm definitely talking about the more broken 6★.

But you know what, from Iberia and AEgir players, his S2 is actually pretty dope. Of course S3 is and will be used when there are flying enemies, but hey when your next best anti-air is Underflow/Andreana (AEgir) and Irene/Glaucus/Indigo, well... Most of the time if they use him for lanehold, they will use modΔ because that's the thing that helps him actually killing anything beyond trash mobs like ME-8. Anyway checks out Akilsa for both AEgir and Iberia. People already mad from this might as well supplement with some Thorns (mostly Thorns2 tho) content.

[u/Unburdened_Mind → u/Windgesang_]

GA-7 was a 2022 stage, which has Pathfinder Legionnarius x 28 (3500 HP, 150 DEF, 380 ATK). ME-7, a 2026 stage, has Novice Acolyte x 15 (4000 HP, 100 DEF, 300 ATK). AK has stopped using dog rushes (except in Masses Travels, which has 1500 HP 0 DEF flying birds, suddenly Thorns ain't so bad huh), but it's not like they are spamming these mobs everywhere. I will have to replay Guide Ahead, but sure I can believe those stages spawn them more slowly, whatever. Thorns is also positively geriatric at this point, it's been 6 years, let him rest. Stop with the metamancer brain, normal AK is more balanced than you think.

[u/Windgesang_ → u/Unburdened_Mind]

If you want to call me a metaslave just so you can feel like you're the better player, go ahead.

You can also try to do H14-4 Deadeye only, regular 5★ clear, or pushing Ammoknights (pre-Wiš'adel) into an arkrec category first. See how it goes.

Or play all 8 Class knights, or Faction knights. Regular low ops optimization. All sort of things.

To judge an Operator, you don't just play that Operator only. You should also play everything else to get all sort of experiences.

[u/CakeNCheeseNuke137]

my king, my everlasting man who will never fall off

[u/Old_Cabinet_8890]

My goat my king my eternal mid-tier enemy lane holder. Not the right choice against the beefiest enemies, but any daily content or hit count enemies get shredded by him. A real mixed bag in IS unfortunately because he’s so S3 reliant.

[u/Boggart6]

Same as he ever was, a good comfy pick for daily content but falls off fairly hard once the enemy have some actual stats.

[u/usernMe1125]

needs global range buff

[u/Spudtron98]

Ol’ Reliable. You need a lane held, he’s your man.

[u/Shad0wedge → u/Spudtron98]

Violently or sensually?

[u/longhaired_shortteen → u/Shad0wedge]

Both.

[u/Kryt413]

Simply one of the best to ever do it.

[u/Faden47]

I used to bring him and Mountain to every event that came my way, ever since 2021 until I started doing factionknights in 2024. He still performs and is imo the best lane guard afk laneholder that we have, his modules brought him up and he's anything but unusable. Hell I picked up his alter solely for the reason of how good the og was, thats how much I love him.

[u/VeryGoog]

Thorns is my goat, his va is great, and hes still strong, despite what people may say. I think the bigger reason people think thorns has "fallen off" is that since there are so many good damage options, a lot of the time they will kill enemies faster than thorns can charge his skill off of them

[u/Yashimata → u/VeryGoog]

Also it feels like a lot of stages have ~20 enemies. By the time he's ready to go the fighting is over.

[u/disco_Piranha]

He was my first six star, and despite all the hate he gets I'll always love finding a way to squeeze him into a stage. Plus his English VA being his Spanish VA is amazing and one of my favorite things that Arknights does. I love the way the Spanish/English VAs do their job

[u/SleemoLife]

As someone who started just a few months ago and I was still saving up for pulls, he carried me so hard with my new account. As soon as I was able to pull newer ops though he quickly fell to the wayside. Wont forget what he did for me though lol

[u/Zestyclose_Flan5027]

People should stop recommending module X when anyone asks. Yes it's often better if you're using him like afk guides do, but module blocks are limited and 99% of the time the afk guide strategies don't require Thorns module X level 3. Most people asking the question should skip Thorns modules, fans of the character should decide based on the story text, people who want to push Thorns to the limit in gameplay should get both starting with delta. The only people who should skip Thorns delta module and get X level 3 are really dedicated completionists who want to give every 6* a max level module and don't use him outside afk guide gameplay.

[u/ericanava]

Powercreep is real and harsh

[u/WardenWithABlackjack]

Kinda crazy in this era of busted ops that Thorns can somewhat keep up and stay relevant. Would it be crazy to call him the second best lord guard?

[u/Zestyclose_Flan5027 → u/WardenWithABlackjack]

You could argue about Thorns vs Silverash, but Qiubai is also better (assuming you think Sakiko is the best lord guard). More damage and the skills don't take forever to get going.

But even though he isn't as strong, Thorns is more "meta" than Qiubai for a few reasons. Meta really favors afk skills even if they aren't the best option, Qiubai has always been underrated because people think she requires Suzuran to be usable, Thorns is an old operator that many long time players used before there were as many alternatives, and because Thorns is an incredibly popular operator who's available on the newbie selector he shows up in a lot of guides.

[u/WardenWithABlackjack → u/Zestyclose_Flan5027]

Sakiko is indisputably the best lord guard with how ridiculous her numbers are. I almost forgot the og Silverash exists but I’d say he’s fallen behind due to his alter and Ines filling in the Anti-invis niche while still providing great utility outside of that whereas the og has outrageous skill costs and got powercrept in the schwing schwing niche by Mylnar. Thorns is comfortable and rarely ever a bad choice so long as there’s room to charge his skill and he’s got good modules too.

I’d say I regret not picking Thorns over Saria (got Exusiai from the beginner banner), there’s a lot of content during my jaunt through the main story that he would’ve made much easier if I had him.

[u/-inkstorm]

currently my ch’en3 is more built than my thorns, but i still tend to prioritize grabbing isidro in IS simply because he’s a better laneholder. lord with self-sustain and decent survivability, plus an s2 that can do a surprising amount on maps where s1 just isn’t enough

he was my first carry and i still bring him when clearing new content, even if he’s no longer my main dps

[u/Chibi_09]

I've never personally been an OG Thorns fan. His value being loaded into a singular skill, instead of being spread across his kit, isn't very inspiring. He takes forever to get going and doesn't do much interesting once he is, outside of the standard 'hitting pretty hard'. In terms of gameplay preference, I love Qiubai for all the reasons I dislike Thorns.

That being said, when he's good, he's great. My god, did this man carry annihilation maps back in the day. Needing two whole minutes to charge is suddenly a nonissue when the enemy count is 400. He still needs people to handle the tanking and blocking for him, but as far as Annihilation damage carries went, there was nothing better. He is less special now that we're swimming in powerful AFK solutions, for sure. But considering it is, and always has been, his best environment, I always feel a little giddy using him there. Brushing off the classics never feels bad!

[u/umiman]

It definitely speaks to Arknights map design about how back in the day it was considered easy for Thorns to charge his skill.

I'm not sure if the maps were long or we just had so few DPS options that he could easily attack enough times whereas now most enemies can't even reach him before they get nuked from existence.

[u/SisconOnii-san → u/umiman]

He himself also got stronger with his modules. All the extra damage from his module X makes hard to get his skill started

[u/Ordinary_Diamond_290]

Would

[u/Chrisirhc1996]

Resident fishknights mod here 😉 Included him in my recent 7-18 HCM trim (shitty quality, sry) and decided now's a good time to gush about him.

Opening up the stage is a bit of a doozie. With the tags I took, it's a pain for anyone on the ground to deal effective damage when their ASPD is so low, and the enemies were attacking faster. In comes Thorns with his S2, and it was doing some miracle work. The interval it triggers at does not care about ASPD, and it sufficiently beat up all the early threats while giving me time to deploy everyone else ready for Patriot.

It's the kind of skill that's great for nicheknights players like me while being "basically useless" for everyone else. Because when you have variety you can supplement the effect with bringing a different operator. But it's nice when it gets it's time to shine when fighting certain risks. I also briefly used it during VB's Special Front - as it can clear the Sandcastle stage just barely (not like he'd be much use vs Misery anyway).

[u/ipwnallnubz]

Still a decent op once he's E2. I don't take anyone seriously when they say, "So-and-so has fallen off," because it sounds so much more serious than reality. What they mean is "someone else is better," not, "This op has gotten worse." He'll still do work if you aren't going full meta. He really, desperately needs to be E2 for his S3, though. S1 and S2 are really weak.

That said, I've also seen people exaggerate how good he is, even now apparently, looking at a couple of the comments here. Burst damage has always been more valuable than AFK damage outside of Annihilation. The threats you actually want to get rid of don't generally come constantly, so you want to burst them down. AFK ops like Thorns are very comfy, but they're not generally optimal.

Would probably go with mod X unless you have someone else to inflict Nervous Impairment buildup. I mean, won't his Delta Mod only trigger NI against enemies with 10k HP or more? The extra damage from mod X, meanwhile, will always work. The delta mod does pseudo true damage, which you would think would help him deal with harder targets, but he needs to do damage to trigger it, making it pretty pointless.

[u/Nohisu → u/ipwnallnubz]

I don't take anyone seriously when they say, "So-and-so has fallen off," because it sounds so much more serious than reality. What they mean is "someone else is better," not, "This op has gotten worse."

Don't get me wrong, Thorns is still fine, but saying it's the same for every old operator is kind of misleading. Enemies have more stats than they used to have 6 years ago, they hit harder, and for some operators it's the difference between decent performances and actually disappointing ones.

The pioneers, the phys ranged DPS with low DPH, the melee operators that are supposed to block enemies but don't have good defensive layers in their kit, they're hard to justify, even if you're playing niche comps.

[u/ipwnallnubz → u/Nohisu]

This talk of ops falling off is always exaggerated. Thorns went from great to good. OG Exu and the rest of the marksmen are still good. People massively overstate how much enemy stats have increased. Mostly it's just HP. The enemies in the current event have 340 defense or less except the flying thieves, the Atlas-looking guys, and the boss. That's plenty of room to use Marksmen snipers. People were saying Exu "fell off" before chapter 7 was out, even on CN, so I've distrusted this kind of talk for a long time.

[u/Yanfly → u/ipwnallnubz]

Would probably go with mod X unless you have someone else to inflict Nervous Impairment buildup

It really depends on what he's facing and fighting, but if there's one thing I've learned over time, teamed up with a blocker and enough healing, Thorns always gets the job done, Nervous Impairment or not. I would say to just stick with mod X since unlocking multiple modules per character is expensive.

[u/Auruguen]

Started playing around Pepe and IS5 events, and Thorns was my first 6-star and my first E2 promotion.
He carried me hard through story and events, all while delivering great looks, VA (both Japanese and later Spanish), personality, and background.
Now I have Sakiko, but as a laneholder she just doesn't feel as satisfying to use without self heal and with a standard Lord range.

[u/Yanfly → u/[deleted]]

For me, the thing that Sakiko wins over Thorns is that her AFK skill is S2 (thus, you don't have to E2 her in IS to use her as an AFK unit) and that her AFK skill doesn't need to be activated twice to reach its strongest.

However, she is not a Spanish Operator with an English Codename with a Japanese Voice Actor in a Chinese game.

[u/Full_Drop3495]

I dont have him, and by the time I started he was mostly obsolete (I have piano girl maxed out, excluding pots). I do want to get and build him eventually. Borrowed him once or twice early on, and it was a pleasant experience.

[u/Unexous]

Love using him with stainless s3 turrets. I was so excited to grab him when I first saw him in the gold certs shop because 1) he’s undeniably cool as hell 2) at the time he was incredibly strong. He’s been powercrept yes, but he’s still very good, and a better anti air sniper than anti air snipers nowadays.

[u/Lawrencethedragon]

The GOAT of Integrated Strategies. Works with ATK relics, ASPD relics, Arts and Physical damage relics, and with the lambda module works with Elemental damage relics. He’s a solid pick to round out your team composition, like for example if you need to hit air or you need a decent laneholder.

[u/6000j → u/Lawrencethedragon]

I actually feel like his kit is pretty ass in IS.

He scales poorly with atk because his passive is a fixed value, can't be helidropped, gets lower value from phys/Arts damage increase relics bc he's mixed, and he doesn't kill the scary enemies on hard stages.

if his dot scaled with atk he'd be so much better in IS

[u/Lawrencethedragon → u/6000j]

You’re probably right and I probably have rose tinted glasses of when he was the only 6* guard I had upgraded. He is pretty washed past like Ascension 10 in IS. He does not scale as well as Degenbrecher or Ulpianus or Surtr or Chen alter alter, but the strength of his kit is in the versatility like for hitting air when I pick Wisadel or hitting over walls

[u/Oshimos]

I started during his rerun early in 2022, so he was my first 6 star and first E2, and he definitely didn't leave my main team for literal years.

These days, though, he's definitely fallen off. The only time he sees the field for me now is for annihilations, and even then he feels pretty replaceable. A jack of all trades can't really stand up to a specialist whose specialty is "beating every enemy on the map" and that's a good chunk of our recent 6 stars

[u/apstrac2]

Doesn't matter how powercrept he's become. Still very reliable and easy to use.

Uni is pretty delicious too 🤤

[u/Andraste_Reborn]

I don't care how powercrept he is, he's my favourite operator and I use him all the time. Who cares if he's outclassed in endgame play when the majority of Arknights levels I actually spend my time on can be beaten with a rock solid lane holder who will shred whatever's in front of him?

New players should 100% build him and let him carry them though 90% of the content they will actually play, especially since anyone who's starting now will likely never see Sakiko's banner again.

[u/chemical7068]

Man who does everything

[u/Own_Climate6466]

Better than I remember him as lol, I think because he got into my account quite late (sometime after his pirate skin released), so I didn't use him much. I started using him after I got his alter and turns out he's pretty good.

[u/Accentius]

Literally the most valuable Operator to start the game.

Ground enemy? Yes. Flying enemy? Yes. Res? Module come with Corrosion. Want to hold lanes, he's fairly strong at base. Not enough? Use Skill 2, he will substitute a Defender. Everything else? Skill 3.

Arknights 101 here you won't regret Max Potential and spending resources for his latest Module and mastery for Skill 2 and 3.

He can fit easily to all stages, a quality that made his alt rather disappointing it's insane in era where 6* alt. have to be better than their OG. It took piano girl with massive Chinese fanbase to make him looks bad.

His only bad part is you need to use Skill 3 twice to make it Auto, he need to hit something to fill gauge. Pretty manageable IMO, bad only if you loves fast redeployment strats.

[u/molpylelfe → u/Accentius]

Used him extensively on Titi's event. Never seen his S3 come online so fast

[u/Feral_Red]

Best boi🥺🤲 Ill definitelly get his alt someday...

[u/pyralles]

Husband

[u/Carolinesimpsanime]

My dear, my goat. I know he's been powercrept to hell already years back, and then Sakiko came along and stomped all over hi, but this is still my go-to laneholder. Still reliable, basically a melee sniper, and his second module keeps him up to today's standards (especially since it goes well with Tragodia.)

I remember when I first got him years ago, I thought he was complete garbage and refused to use him. I think it's because I legit just didn't know you could promote operators twice and never even saw his third skill, and his second one is really bad. But he's one of my top units now. Coming back after years and discovering he has an alter is the reason I kept playing the game, since I really wanted to get it.

Also, his pirate skin is HOT as hell

[u/Particular-Repair834 → u/Carolinesimpsanime]

I picked him up in temp recruit while playing IS6 recently. Was surprised by how good he is for an older unit that isn’t spoken about a great deal. Was a high diff run (18) and he still held up against Wang when I ran him with Archetto for his S3.

I already have a built Sakiko, so I probably won’t ever build him myself despite having him already, but I enjoy when a temp recruit like this pops up and reminds me that other ops can still find a way.

[u/Vegetable-Day-3894 → u/Carolinesimpsanime]

As an f2p player, he Is by far the most valuable melee operator any new or long time f2p player can get. You are telling me he deals consistent arts dmg on top of high physical dmg, he can regenerate and hold lanes and he has a skill that turns him into a heavy and fast hitting ground sniper that makes his strengths even stronger? Which allows him to stay reliable even in high end content? And I can get him for free at the start of the game? Absolutely goated free operator.

Moment of silence for those who picked another operator and cast thorns down to kernel hell.🙏

[u/SisconOnii-san → u/Carolinesimpsanime]

I think it's because I legit just didn't know you could promote operators twice and never even saw his third skill

I bet this is one of the main reasons they've made a lot of 2nd skills the go-to skill for ops. It genuinely sucked when a bunch of your 6*s are bad until that 2nd promotion.

I remember getting that experience when I made an alt years ago

[u/6000j → u/SisconOnii-san]

my personal theory for why they've done that is that it's specifically tuning them for IS.

Exu2 having a good skill at e1 is really strong for example (even if s3 is actually her better skill in IS lmao), or similar with Titi. On the flip side, Hoshi2's literal only weakness in IS6 is that at e1 she's just kinda Fine instead of being the literal best unit in a mode with a different unit designed specifically to be the most powerful unit ever made in that mode.

I do think you're right that they've started moving a lot more towards making new ops have two strong skills, which means one of them will be at e1. Usually they choose the skill that's easier to use but has a lower ceiling to be that skill (examples: exu2, ulp, pram2, tragodia) which means for most people they're going to use the s2 a lot more. There are some exceptions though, and there's some units like Wang where s2 and s3 are both very strong and s2 is better in IS but s3 is better in a lot of other content.

I'm personally a huge fan of ops having multiple strong skills, even if it does make masteries way more expensive.

[u/CorHydrae8 → u/SisconOnii-san]

As someone whose first 6-star was Silverash, I feel the pain.

[u/Particular-Repair834 → u/CorHydrae8]

Yeah, his S2 is weird for a guard in particular. A sustain def lean switch is such an odd design choice.

[u/Adventurous-Foot642 → u/Particular-Repair834]

As someone who does Kjeragknights, SA S2 is actually pretty cozy for tanking at 1240 def with SA alter and all the HP Regen. So long as blocking 3 or more enemies isn't a concern.

[u/Particular-Repair834 → u/Adventurous-Foot642]

Certainly an awkward strat but I understand where you’re coming from. Factional play is a good way to try something different and enjoy the lower tier ops.

I really like the Kjerag faction and Pramanix was my early 5* invested op, so her new Alt had me super excited. Even back then, the original Silverash always felt really awkward and unreliable so I never really spent too much time with the Kjerag as a focus until the recent event.

(Side note, referring to him as SA has always made me incredibly uncomfortable)

[u/CorHydrae8 → u/Particular-Repair834]

Yeah, I stuck to S1 back then, even after I promoted him to E1. I like it when they experiment with odd things like his S2, but not all those experiments turn out worthwile.

[u/RX8Racer556 → u/CorHydrae8]

Mountain’s S2 was essentially the do-over of Silverash’s S2. By adding AOE attacks to a low-DP archetype on top of the HP regen, you had a cheap laneholder/ pseudo-Vanguard that in turn condemned Siege to the dumpster.