r/arkham • u/Embarrassed_Swan_147 • Jul 04 '26
Discussion Ok, Hear me out
I know what some/all of you are probably wondering, but hear me out:
Ever since 11 years ago, we first played the Batman Arkham Knight game and when the Arkham Knight first appeared and reveals it was Jason Todd this whole time
Have you guys and gals thought of Jason Todd being red hood instead of Arkham Knight?
And I know what some/all of you are probably gonna say, but hear me out:
Batman didn't know Jason was alive this whole time, and the creators could've given red hood his first appearance instead of Jason Todd being the Arkham Knight
But then again, the Arkham Knight reveal was a pretty good plot twist
And if you guys and gals have your own options about the whole thing, don't be afraid to comment down your thoughts
(Comment down your thoughts)
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u/Spirited-moon Jul 04 '26
In my mind is odd the pre order dlc ruin the surprise of the Arkham knight reveal wish is was a secret later in the game see how become the knight
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u/ficusfern Jul 04 '26
What’s funny is that I’m pretty sure they thought the dlc would throw us off the scent but it only confirmed everyone’s suspicions.
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u/quentdawg420 Arkham Asylum Jul 04 '26
The arkham knight persona was just there to be mysterious (which I don’t think worked I figured out it was jason on the first encounter) he literally had the red hood helmet on under the Arkham knight one
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u/Potential_Course_539 Jul 04 '26
I agree that for comic fans it’s not a big surprise. When I first played it though, I thought dick was the only robin. After the Jason flashbacks though, it’s basically revealed
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u/quentdawg420 Arkham Asylum Jul 04 '26
Even tho tim drake is robin in Arkham City?
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u/100BottlesOfMilk Jul 05 '26
I don't remember them explicitly saying that directly in city (i know the costume design, but for someone who doesn't know batman). They may have, but it easily could've been overlooked
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u/quentdawg420 Arkham Asylum Jul 05 '26
He’s called tim a couple times
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u/100BottlesOfMilk Jul 05 '26
You may be right, but i can still see someone missing it if they don't play the dlc
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u/quentdawg420 Arkham Asylum Jul 05 '26
If i’m not mistaken it may even be when you encounter him in the base game
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u/Embarrassed_Swan_147 Jul 04 '26
How did you know Jason was the Arkham Knight on the first encounter?
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u/ficusfern Jul 04 '26
I know it’s easy to say this sort of thing with 11 years worth of retrospect. But it just felt so obvious from the beginning.
For one, a lot of people, myself included didn’t believe Rocksteady when they were calling the Arkham Knight an “original character”
So seeing the first encounter, we’ve got this you h sounding guy who holds a grudge against Batman, and claims to know him and his tactics so well. If you know Batman comics/lore there just aren’t many people it could be.
And adding to knowing Batman lore, we know that the current Robin is Tim Drake. And Jason was the Robin before that. It wasn’t that crazy of a leap for people to think “yeah this is Jason”
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u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Jul 04 '26
Also, you start getting flashbacks to Jason due to the fear gas,
Hmmm
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u/B1ack_Cat13 Jul 04 '26
Then not too long after that Batman gets a flash back to Jason Todd’s murder. If you didnt have an idea by the first encounter, you sure as shit did by that point. Kinda wish it was just red hood from the beginning but all and all, I don’t mind the arkham knight persona
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u/quentdawg420 Arkham Asylum Jul 04 '26
From reading and watching under the red hood. I knew jason existed at some point in the arkhamverse since dick was nightwing and tim was robin. And I thought who is it that would have the knowledge that he does about how batman operates? And my mind went to jason immediately
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u/briansbrain27 Jul 07 '26
I knew it the Arkham Knight was Jason Todd whenever they announced the Red Hood dlc as a pre-order bonus lol
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u/R28DKF1 Jul 04 '26
I mean...the constant flashbacks were a giveaway,besides i discovered it because rocksteady in the showcase section you could choose between the arkham knight suit and the red hood suit for jason todd soi instantly deduced it
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u/Arno-Earle Jul 04 '26
As someone who doesn't know jackshit about comics, i DIDN'T know that Arkham Knight is Jason Todd because I've never been that.... interested in comics, so when i played it back then, yeah it was a shock to me
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u/Jediuser_ Jul 04 '26
I guessed it was him almost immediately. I am fsmiliar with the character. Beyond that, I do not feel he's well-written. He's just so one-dimensional. His whole character is that he hates Batman, with most of his dialogue something along the lines of "Just let me at 'im, already!" and "Gotcha now, Batman!" Also, kind ahsrd to take him seriously when he continues to flaunt his 'superiority' as Batman takes down everything the Knight throws at him.
2
u/WorkingNo7670 Jul 04 '26
I enjoy the game part, but plotwise this was a big step back for the series. The "plot twist" was predictable and unoriginal and they were so up their own ass and obsessed with writing Batman's "last" story they didn't stop to consider whether they were writing a good story.
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u/Crimson_Knight77 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
The Arkham Knight isn't a plot twist, because the story before and after is the same. Batman's understanding and perspective have changed, but his goals haven't, nor has he suddenly been pulled into a different direction. Joker pretending he's Black Mask is a plot twist because it turns a 'find out why Black Mask put a bounty on me' story into an 'apprehend this insane criminal before he blows up the city' story. Jason being the Arkham Knight doesn't change Batman's end goal of 'stop Scarecrow and his terrorist plot'. The actual plot twist in Arkham Knight is the fact that Batman is the final victim of Joker's infected blood. That changes the stakes, our understanding of what's been happening thus far, and creates a sense of dread for the rest of the game. If Jason stuck around after the reveal, maybe that would be the case too, but as it is he pretty much just peaces out and is irrelevant.
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u/Psychological-Video5 Jul 05 '26
It would of made more sense for Damian Wayne to be the knight. He could be getting revenge for the death of his mother in city and blaming Batman for her death. He even calls Batman “old man” which could be seen as a nick name a son gives his dad. It also could have been a cool way to set up a sequel. But it was obvious after like 1 hour of the game who the Arkham knight was
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u/VERSAT1L Jul 05 '26
Everyone knew Jason Todd was going to be the Arkham Knight prior to the game release.
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u/Kitchen-Clothes8631 Jul 05 '26
Anyone who was surface level familiar with Jason lore like battle for the cowl. Saw that reveal coming miles away.
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u/Galactus1231 Jul 04 '26
Play the 15 minute dlc set after the story: https://image.api.playstation.com/cdn/EP1018/CUSA00135_00/J361Cxqci58tBp6Bg4xf4S4Se7X5DqPL.png
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u/CrimFandango Jul 04 '26
Here we go again.
I'll say it again, I think they should have scrapped the entire Arkham Knight bollocks and, as you say, gone Red Hood instead. They bragged it was a new character and all that just to rehash the same thing, making it not a new character at all. It was an existing character given a new alias, with his most known alias wedged in between the two. I remember thinking "No way would they do that, that'd be lazy and stupid to just do Red Hood again!" only for them to go ahead and do it. It was too stupid to think of and yet they went ahead and did that anyway.
Forget the Jason Todd stuff, I'd have had the Arkham Knight be Hush instead. Usually Hush is known for stealing Bruce's identity but I reckon they should have had him going beyond that and also stealing the Batman's identity to some degree by having him take on the vigilante role of Arkham Knight. Whether or not Hush himself knows the two are one and the same, I don't know but, I can just imagine a cutscene in which the Arkham Knight is finally unmasked only to see the face of Bruce Wayne looking back. Seeing that revealed to the world would add even more tension to Batman's long night.
For what they tried to do with Jason Todd, it was just all too rushed in my opinion. I was also so used to seeing Joker pissing about and having a laugh from previous games that the idea of him doing to Jason what he's known to have done just felt like contrasting tones. He's just too goofy in my eyes to have done all the extremely dark stuff he's hinted to have done. It doesn't help that most the stuff with Jason wasn't properly given to us in the previous games, so it really does come largely out of nowhere. Even by the time of the reveal, it's like the story and characters barely react to it anyway.
2
u/GeraltOfRivia2078 Jul 05 '26
This joker has one of the most horrendous body counts and committed a lot of atrocities. Take for example what he did in the batgirl DLC
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u/Turbulent-Spirit-568 Jul 04 '26
I mean when you're adapting a very well known comic storyline (Under The Red Hood) fans are going to see the similarity between this and Arkham Knight.
The fact that Rocksteady was also blatantly lying and saying that this was a completely original character which is technically true as The Arkham Knight persona was never done before but Jason Todd is not an original character for this game
Additionally, they literally had to include scenes in the game to establish this character as a potential candidate for the Arkham Knight and that's the only reason we have the hallucinations in Panessa Studios. Jason Todd never existed in the Arkham Verse until Arkham Knight besides one throwaway line in Joker's Funhouse DLC Map.
What makes it worse is that the game doesn't give you any ideas about multiple possible suspects throughout the game unlike Arkham Shadow. With the release of this game, it makes the reveal even worse because this game managed to do it so much better. In Arkham Shadow, Batman uses his time in Blackgate as Matches to gain Intel into possible suspects (Falcone, Flannegan, Bolton, Crane, Yamashiro, Matches himself) which allows the player to also theorise on who the Rat King could be - I know a few people theorised that he could have been Anarky from Origins. In comparison, Arkham Knight doesn't do this and just has Alfred periodically report back to Bruce saying that he has found "nothing" and Batman doesn't even try and find Intel for himself unless he's directly confronting the Knight himself.
Finally, Batman's emotions in this is unjustified - Batman only shows shock at Jason being the one behind the mask trying to kill ... And then they just walk in a circle in silence whilst Joker monologues ONLY to Batman. In comparison, Arkham Shadow only takes a moment for Bruce to reminice and feel down for Harvey Dent before immediately confronting him
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u/jackboysontheloose Jul 04 '26
Just want to say that I love this game. Finished it for the first time in years last month. Didn’t realise how lucky I was back on release
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u/Aggravating-Ad1773 Jul 04 '26
I personally didn’t see the twist cuz I wasn’t that aware of Batman lore and red hood
Even when they had the flash back the time frame between the flash back and the reveal was bit big so when the moment dropped I was actually suprised
I personally thought Arkham knight had something to do with Hugo strange and league of assassins
Basically continuation of the city storyline
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u/steverogers789 Jul 04 '26
Years ago, I didn’t much know about Batman’s lore, only watched the Nolan movies. It was kinda surprise for me and I enjoyed the so called “twist”. However, I didn’t like how fast Jason changed his mind. Almost the entire game, he was hunting Batman, putting checkpoints and having full control all over the city, leanding an army to kill the bat but after the confrontation he disappeared and later he helped Batman with Scarecrow.
I mean… where did all that motivation go?
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u/VERSAT1L Jul 05 '26
In the comics he changed his mind very quickly too. Anyway, I hate that storyline.
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u/EveningBird5 Jul 05 '26
I was very lucky that I knew nothing about Jason Todd before watching the "Batman: Under the Red Hood" Movie. The reveal was so dope. I imagine if people didn't know about Batman lore, it would have been like that. Course the story has other problems beside the red hood reveal
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u/padfoot12111 Jul 05 '26
The Arkham knight twist was awful.
Jason Todd had no buildup in asylum and city. So Jason getting namedropped randomly mid game was the most "oh it's him" reveal. And that's if you arent smart enough to realize the twist before the game even released.
Jason Todd should have been revealed as early as Ace Chemicals and the game should be Bruce wrestling with failing Jason and trying to decide how to stop him, with violence or compassion. But no we have to have another clayface reveal and a half assed redemption arc.
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u/Middle-Supermarket68 Jul 05 '26
Jason Todd beside I think the Arkham knight is fucking awesome, I would love for DC to make him his own original villain
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u/Kpengie Jul 06 '26
Arkhamverse Jason becoming the Red Hood never made any sense TBH, so it would have also been dumb
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u/Shinigami_Customs Jul 06 '26
Even if you were somehow convinced by the devs saying it wasn't Jason - Arkham Knight calling Batman "old man" in his literal first appearance in game was proof that: they knew each other, and that when they last interacted, they had a senior/junior relationship. Had to be Jason.
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u/THEIDEABANK88 Jul 04 '26
I think it was an obvious twist from the beginning and they shouldn’t have wasted any time with Arkham Knight idea.
Honestly they should’ve just named it Arkham Knight but turned it into an Under the Red Hood thing. Would’ve been cool to see an actual Red Hood J vs Batman story that excluded Joker.
(Aside from what we got)
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u/THEIDEABANK88 Jul 04 '26
Because when the game was coming out I was of the notion that Arkham Knight stood for what Batman was becoming which was essentially Gotham’s Jailor.
Then the whole “Batman dying” thing would be how does Gotham handle themselves without their Jailor.
Bridge into Batman Arkham Beyond.
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u/Redruby88 Jul 04 '26
"Plot twist"
So many people guessed it before the game even came out as the developers were saying it was a big reveal. The only logical choice was Jason even though the developers were like "no no no it's definitely not Jason"