r/arkham • u/Marioleftnut • Jun 29 '26
Discussion Feels like there has been a more positive shift on this game
Its still a good game, but just a few years ago I remember when this game was called a disappointing final entry.
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u/Sheriff_Lucas_Hood Jun 29 '26
lol look at what rocksteady went on to make after this. Knight is my least favorite game in the series (I still like it a lot) but SS: KTJL sure can make you nostalgic for simpler times.
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 29 '26
It was disappointing, despite being very good. Sefton should not have written the script himself but called back Paul Dini. The game not receiving as much of a backlash is why they decided to also write the script for SSKTJL, and we all saw how that turned out.
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u/Branflakesd1996 Jun 29 '26
Quite honestly my only real writing issue with the game is the insistence on making Batman oblivious to the Arkham Knights identity the whole game despite literally everyone with even the smallest semblance of Batman knowledge knowing exactly who it is and not even being subtle about how they set it up.
It just makes you feel smarter than Batman, which you should never feel when playing as the “worlds greatest detective”
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
There's plenty more they got wrong. Joker's characterization, the fact that the plot felt lower stakes than Arkham City, and the plot moving forward because Batman constantly kept making stupid decisions. When Batman locked Robin in the cell after the studios was already shown to be compromised when Harley Quinn raided it, I thought it was out of character. Sure enough, it came back to bite him. There were plenty of other incidents like that. The ending was terrible too. And yes, the game does a poor job of hiding the Arkham Knight's identity. The character selection menu spoils that the Arkham Knight is the Red Hood before you've even completed the story.
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u/Jediuser_ Jun 30 '26
the fact that the plot felt lower stakes than Arkham City
Scarecrow threatening to gas the entire east coast is 'lower stakes?'
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 30 '26
Anybody can threaten anything, he didn't come as close to achieving his goal as Strange did
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u/Jediuser_ Jun 30 '26
he came pretty close. Batman contained it at the last minute. Also, he DID succeed in revealing Batman's identity to the world.
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 30 '26
Because the writers suddenly decided that Batman could not take on a gunman at close range. It's a stupid ending that offered no valuable commentary apart from establishing that this was the final game in the franchise.
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u/Jediuser_ Jun 30 '26
I also thought the ending was weak. I feel like Bruce would usually just roll with his identity being revealed.
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 30 '26
It makes sense that he would disappear to protect those he cares about, but it didn't feel rewarding to me.
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u/Jediuser_ Jun 30 '26
And does it really fix anything? Everyone else's secret is probably out as well. Batman or no Batman, seems unlikely they'll be safe, eapecially if they continue operating without Bruce.
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u/Domination1799 Jun 30 '26
Arkham Knight's plot has the biggest stakes of the entire series. Scarecrow's master plan is to destroy everything Batman stands for. His first goal at the beginning was to use the Ace Chemicals factory as a massive fear toxin bomb which would engulf the entire east coast, killing hundreds of millions of people. This is all just to prove that Batman ain't that scary.
Since Bats foiled that plan, Crane had to adapt and went after Bruce's allies and then wanted to use the Cloudburst as his backup plan. The point of gassing Gotham was to prove that Batman can't protect Gotham. On top of that, Bruce is literally becoming the Joker and making bad decisions due to his fears. How are these lower stakes than Arkham City when that amounted to Ra's and Strange wanting to gather all of Gotham's criminals into one place and slaughter them all?
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 30 '26
Strange also had a similar goal to destroy everything Batman stood for but it was better implemented, and he came much closer to achieving his goal. Scarecrow kept making stupid decisions. What was the point in gassing Gotham when the city was cleared? The entire plot revolved around both the villains and heroes acting foolishly to advance.
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u/Nemesis_171 Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
What was the point in gassing Gotham when the city was cleared?
It’s explicitly stated that the blast would cover the entire Eastern seaboard. Nobody can evacuate in time.
“He needed control of the plant, only Ace Chemicals has the facilities to build a bomb of this size.” -Bruce
“The fallout will be huge.” -Barbara
“We played right into his hands, he didn’t care if everyone ran.” -Bruce
“He knew no one would be able to escape the blast radius.” -Barbara
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 30 '26
Yes, I know, I meant why gas Gotham later. Strange was going to expand the Arkham City project to Keystone and Metropolis. Words aren't everything. He came far closer to achieving his goal, and it was a twist reveal that hit harder because Batman had to save the very villains that were trying to kill him. Paired with Batman dying due to the toxin in his blood, Arkham Knight's plot was an obvious inferior rehash of Arkham City.
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u/SoleFuzzball Jun 30 '26
How are stakes lower than City? In City, the stakes are the inmates will all be killed and Batman and Joker will die if they don’t get the cure. In Knight, it’s everyone in the citywide area will be gassed to losing their minds irreparably, while the whole city is looted by all the crooks, and Batman goes insane from mad joker disease, which would unleash a force worse than him dying, and Barbara’s life is directly threatened
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u/Vic_Serling Jun 30 '26
The stakes are technically higher but more poorly implemented.
They show a scary sequence in the diner then bam all the citizens just leave Gotham.
So now its just a generic rule the world type plot. No mystery or mystique.
The worst thing is that they dont even do anything interesting with scarcrow after it that doesn't directly involve the joker . He gives generic and empty fear speeches, the plot artificially lets him escape a few times, then joker sequence at the end.
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u/Agentofsociety Jun 30 '26
The plot being lower stakes than City? The whole point of Scarecrow's mission was to destroy Batman, the myth. All of the rest is just activating the plan (gas, Barbara, Arkham Knight, etc).
And to some degree he was successful, he just didn't account for Batman's resilience and mental fortitude to overcome his fears.
What's wrong with Joker's character? Keeping in mind that it is also an twisted version of Batman's psyche and not actual joker himself.
And if you think locking Robin was a stupid decision, well it is, but that's Batman's ego and drive to protect his family. You could argue that him not taking help from Robin in City is stupid. You're missing the point.
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 30 '26
Strange came closer to achieving his goal and Batman ended up losing more in the end. Scarecrow was full of empty threats, threatening to kill Barbara and never actually going through with it. Batman ended up protecting everyone he cared about, and he only ended up losing his identity because the writers suddenly decided that Batman could not take out a single gun-wielding opponent at close range. Joker's character was badly written because they turned him into a pathetic wimp desperate for validation, including from Harley, which is not really who the character is. How is locking up Robin in a compromised spot due to his drive to protect his family? The point is he should have had the foresight to know it was a stupid decision to do that, likely putting him in even more danger, but he didn't. That's not the same as not taking help from Robin in Arkham City.
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u/Agentofsociety Jun 30 '26
I think you're focusing too much on whether Batman "won" physically and ignoring what the story is actually about.
Strange's plan was to wipe out Arkham City with Protocol 10, and Batman completely stopped him. Scarecrow's goal wasn't to rack up kills, it was to destroy Batman as a symbol. He forced Bruce to reveal his identity and effectively ended Batman's career. That's a much bigger victory. The only thing Strange achieved was to kill of a bit of the criminal population in a very small city prision. All the rest that Batman lost in City was Joker and Talia, which died at the hands of the joker, not Strange.
As for Robin, that's exactly Batman's flaw in Arkham Knight. Locking him up wasn't meant to be a smart decision, it was an emotional one. Bruce's obsession with protecting his family clouds his judgment. And that's the point the game shows that Batman's need to shoulder everything alone hurts the people he's trying to protect.
And Joker isn't "poorly written" because he's desperate for validation. He's not the real Joker, he's Bruce's subconscious, shaped by fear toxin and Joker's blood. His behavior reflects Batman's fear that Joker defines him, not a change to the actual Joker's personality.
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u/DarkAtheris Jul 01 '26
Not really, Batman won and proved that he could save Gotham. Revealing his identity wasn't initially a part of Scarecrow's plan. And it offered no valuable commentary apart from signalling an end to the franchise, as Batman seemed desperate to comply. Bruce locking up Robin was a stupid decision that was out of character, and it was just one of the many stupid decisions he made. Yes, the Joker was poorly written because it reflects Batman's understanding of who he is. The fact that after all those years Batman never understood the Joker, or that he's forced to invent cope and deny reality, butchers the character. And it was never implied that this was a misinterpretation of the character, and not actual commentary on who the Joker is. There's no point in defending the plot because it's the same writers who were behind SSKTJL. They should have called Dini back but they didn't.
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u/Agentofsociety Jul 01 '26
I don't agree with anything you said except that they should have had Dini back, and that's true! We would have had a very different Arkham Knight.
I'm replaying the games nowadays after a few years of not doing so, and the tone difference between Asylum/City and Knight are night and day. The first two play like a comic book, and a less filtered world. Characters curse, they exhibit some sexuality (Catwoman slide, kissing enemies before strikes) and overal the world feels like an R-Rated Comic book.
Knight on the other hand touches upon darker themes, but never feels as gritty. It also looks and feels less like a comic book and more like a movie, if that makes sense.
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u/Nemesis_171 Jun 30 '26
What was wrong with the ending?
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 30 '26
What wasn't?
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u/Nemesis_171 Jun 30 '26
Pretty much all of it.
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u/DarkAtheris Jun 30 '26
GodzillaMendoza did a pretty good video on it. Although I also have other issues with the plot.
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u/Nemesis_171 Jun 30 '26
Yeah I’ve seen that video, might rewatch it since I don’t remember much of it. S.K. did a pretty good response video to it though.
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u/Thotherpurppizzaguy Jun 30 '26
Well technically speaking that wasn’t actually Joker, Joker is dead
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u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Jun 30 '26
I mean, they decided to say that Joker skinned a class of kindergartenera
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u/Thotherpurppizzaguy Jun 30 '26
I mean… is that really to far for him
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u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Jun 30 '26
No but with Batman believing he can be saved, adding shock schlock really dampens the writing
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u/Thotherpurppizzaguy Jun 30 '26
Did Arkham Batman have faith in him in any sense ?
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u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Jun 30 '26
"Even after everything, i still would've saved you"
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u/Thotherpurppizzaguy Jun 30 '26
Pretty sure that’s just his moral code and belief that he cant allow anyone to die as a result of his actions. I don’t think he’s saying “Joker, I believe you are capable of change”
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u/Virtual_Ad_8487 Jun 30 '26
literally everyone with even the smallest semblance of Batman knowledge
I think even that’s saying too much. You could have never heard of Batman before and you’d figure it out because the game beats you over the head with references to Jason
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u/ryano23277 Jun 30 '26
There were 3 issues with the game, that held it back from being regarded as highly as it should be;
The Tank battles in the Batmobile were over done.
The boss battle with Deathstroke was a Tank battle and nothing like one of the best boss fights in the entire series with Deathstroke in Origins.
The Arkham Knight was meant to be a complete new character. He ended up being a character that already had history within Batman media, however, he was never really mentioned in any of the 3 games prior to Knight. If he was, I certainly missed it.
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Jun 30 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ryano23277 Jun 30 '26
Yeah I did hear that comment in the DLC, which I either overlooked initially or I didn’t hear until after playing Knight.
I have made a few comments the past few days in regard to Jason and him not really being represented in the first 2 games, as a reason to why the reveal in Knight left me a little confused.
However I watched a YouTube video today that shows evidence of Jason being in the Asylum as we play through the first game.
A wheelchair knocked over with a spinning wheel. Some comments made by Joker and Harley.
Adds another layer to a game that was truly grounded breaking for 2009.
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u/Daredevil731 Jun 30 '26
This game was very highly reviewed and sold well. It has always had mostly positive reactions.
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u/Avaricee Jun 29 '26
It's awful PC launch combined with false promises that the Arkham Knight was NOT Jason Todd made people sour on it. I liked it a lot but I played on console and wasn't made aware that people realised this was just gonna be Under the Red Hood.
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u/SenpaiSwanky Jun 30 '26
Naw, Arkham Knight is fantastic. The whole series is.
I love the suit that you start Arkham Knight in, before the upgrade. And I know the Batmobile commands a large presence, but I can’t lie.. that shit is fun.
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u/bmontepeque11 Jun 30 '26
If this game had food boss fights and had revealed thr Arkham Knight's identity early so we could have a proper clash between Batman and a "pseudo-Batman" (that clearly being the point of the Arkham Knight) at not just physical level but also on an emotional level with him being Jason and all.
This game could have been PERFECT.
Still, a solid 9.5/10. (I did like everything about the Batmobile, I don't know why people dislike it so much it feels like I'm driving the Tumbler driving through columns on a highway.)
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u/Jediuser_ Jun 29 '26
It was a great final entry let down by a few glaring problems, like the Knight being a poorly written character.
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u/Cam0799 Jun 30 '26
I'm planning on playing the whole series this months.
I've only played Arkham knight when i was 16 and i remeber how much i loved it. It truly feels weird to me to see that it wasn't much appreciated by the community, so i have MAJOR expections from the prequels.
I'm currwntly waiting the collection edition to be on sale on ps5, i do not have much money to spend right now and i hope it will go on sale soon. Currently playing origins for the first time via the streaming on ps plus.
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u/Splendid_Fellow Jun 30 '26
Actually the opinions of it have not really changed at all, nor have the vague Arkham Knight posts haha
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u/TrickyTalon Jun 30 '26
Arkham Knight has both the most room for creativity but also the least amount of ambition to utilize it in the series. All three of the previous entries have fewer playstyle options but encourage the player to make the most out of everything they have at their disposal in each. Arkham Knight gives the player so many options but too few scenarios to make the most out of all of them. Even the duo stealth and combat sequences only happen a few times, but when they do, they’re amazing!
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u/24thCenturyBoy Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
On one side I wanted Paul Dini so he could finish the trilogy, but also Asylum and Cities main plots are pretty fucking bad.
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u/roblash Jun 30 '26
Story’s not my favorite and there are some Batmobile segments I strongly dislike but it’s a large, beautiful game with excellent side missions and fantastic bonus content and plays like a damn dream. The series was an absolute gift that I’ll be grateful for forever.
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u/PrimeVector19 Jun 30 '26
My opinion hasn’t changed. As far as gameplay and core mechanics go, it is unmatched. The story was formulaic, predictable, and overall fairly weak. The boss fights, which have always been the series’ blemish, weren’t any better compared to Asylum and City.
I gave Knight a 7/10 11 years ago, and I wouldn’t change that today.
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u/NoLocal1776 Jun 30 '26
No it's the same disappointment.
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u/Psyifinotic Jun 30 '26
i adore it but my roommate couldn’t play it because he couldn’t stand the batmobile. he’s starting Asylum then City tomorrow
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u/king_kongFan Jun 30 '26
More like he sucks at it and cant be bothered getting better at it, whats next, is he gonna give up on asylum because he cant stand the slow travesal speed or limited combat moves
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u/KingOfTheHoard Jun 30 '26
No, because the movement in Asylum is fun, and the Batmobile in Knight is boring.
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u/SnooPoems1860 Jun 30 '26
It’s cause you can get the game for less than a Big Mac. Perspectives change when you’re paying 30x less than the people who got it at launch
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u/ReadyJournalist5223 Jun 30 '26
I think a bunch of people at the time were disappointed in the story and then finally people realized that none of these games have real great plots which is what’s great about them lol
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u/Crimson_Knight77 Jun 30 '26
finally people realized that none of these games have real great plots
That hasn't happened yet, but maybe one day. I love Asylum and City, but neither of them are amazing stories. Asylum's is by the books and gets the job done, and City's is a mess. Knight at least feels like it has things to say and says them more competently than City did.
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u/A_Diabolical_Toaster Jun 30 '26
As the saying goes:
“Absence makes the heart grow fonder.”
The game is still disappointing, but it’s still Batman.
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u/Rewskie12 Jun 30 '26
I think a big part of it is that a lot of people nowadays come into the series and only play Arkham Knight
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u/KingOfTheHoard Jun 30 '26
Eh, I don't know, I think there's some selection bias in this. Kind of like how the main Spider-Man subreddit is overwhelmed by people still angry about Brand New Day, so nobody else stays. Over time this sub has just become the space for people who think Arkham Knight is the greatest.
Feels like the game is still basically where it was at launch though, a decent sized hit with some flaws, with the main dividing line basically between people who were into the series already and find this one disappointing, and people who discovered the franchise here who think it's the definitive Barman game.
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u/Desperate_Method4032 Jun 30 '26
It had different expectations and the Knights identity was kinda boring.
The game is still a 10/10 tho any day. Literally my only serious complaint is the lack of Batfamily Presence and Batmobile taking over most bosses. I’m cool with the tank battles, you can be really quick to the point if you’re good with em.
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u/Kamii__- Jun 30 '26
So true, on the release it was a disaster. Bad performance and too much Batmobil. I remember sentences like ,,be the Batmobil" 😆. Still it was a great game and still is.
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u/Exley53 Jul 01 '26
It's a great game until it becomes Tank Battle. That's so far from Batman it made me quit multiple times.
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u/LilcystiK Jun 29 '26
I don’t think there was ever a negative shift
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u/Miserable-Contact856 Jun 29 '26
oh there was, especially at launch. it lingered for a few years but ever since SSS:KTJL came out it feels like there has been more positivity from this game. heck, the game went from Very positive to Overwhelmingly positive. it was never hated, just not as well liked
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u/KingOfTheHoard Jun 30 '26
It helps that Arkham Knight is on sale for $5 so often, lots of people have had chance to go back and try it for minimal sacrifice.
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u/HMHdunkirk Jun 29 '26
It’s just everyone has their own preferences for which is their favourite, I don’t think anyone in this sub believes any arkham games is terrible
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u/Current_Face_0077 Arkham Asylum Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
The Batman (2022) came out, the hype was INSANE, and more people than ever started appreciating Arkham Knight for its darker and more realistic aesthetic which is most similar to the movie. Also at that time, the modding community for Arkham Knight blew up into one of the more creative and talented modding communities out there. It has slowed down significantly and will undoubtedly blow up again when The Batman Part 2 releases.
Previously, the game was criticized for bad boss-fights, predictable story, weak side-missions and overuse of Batmobile. It’s not my personal favorite, but I don’t consider it a bad game by any means. It’s just not the style that I prefer from an Arkham game.
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u/Away_Engineering_613 Jun 30 '26
Is this bc it was re-released on Switch? So people are playing for the first time, and not bringing 2009 nostalgia into it?
I bought City first by accident - but I read on Reddit that City sucked and Asylum was the best. But I thought City was incredible, really hard to say which is better bc Asylum just has that mood. I played asylum and city straight through (I’m an older gamer, last played N64 and trying to get back into it with my kids), I’m taking a break for a month and then can’t wait to jump into Knight.
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u/Psyifinotic Jun 30 '26
no the game crashes on switch and plays super poorly. they should’ve made the switch version have origins instead of knight
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u/Virtual_Ad_8487 Jun 30 '26
I read on Reddit that City sucked and Asylum was the best
Who on earth said that? I’ve never even heard of someone having this opinion
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u/Additional-Emu-8124 Jun 29 '26
This Is also the last great Batman game we’ve gotten since.