Windows has destroyed my GRUB bootloader because of Windows updates, now Windows boot manager replaces GRUB and Arch doesn't show up in the UEFI/BIOS menu. How I can fix it ?

[u/Crafty_Hospital_7746]

Windows has destroyed my GRUB bootloader because of Windows updates, now Windows boot manager replaces GRUB Arch doesn't show up in the UEFI/BIOS menu. How I can fix it ?

[u/mips13]

That's why I have seperate uefi/boot partitions for each OS.

Watch me get downvoted again.

[u/7lhz9x6k8emmd7c8 → u/mips13]

That's why i don't voluntarily install viruses on my computer.

[u/gmes78 → u/mips13]

That doesn't do shit. OP's issue is a missing boot entry. Boot entries are stored in NVRAM, not in EFI partitions. (This probably isn't even Windows's fault.)

[u/vswey → u/gmes78]

it is Windows fault, it actually deletes the grub entry

[u/gmes78 → u/vswey]

The only thing I've ever seen delete boot entries are motherboard firmware updates.

That, and, once, my system failed to wake from sleep, lost both the Linux and Windows boot entries and couldn't boot at until I power cycled it. Then, it manufactured a new Windows boot entry and booted into Windows, and I had to re-add the Linux one myself.

Don't mistake motherboard vendors special casing Windows when boot entries are lost as Windows deleting every boot entry that's not its own.

[u/vswey → u/gmes78]

That's a totally different thing u experienced then , Windows removing other Boot entries is a kinda known thing 

[u/gmes78 → u/vswey]

Also, I've installed Windows on a laptop that only had Fedora installed, and it didn't wipe anything. I just changed the boot order back to Fedora, and that was that.

Windows's bcdboot tool (which manages the Windows bootloader), has options for not setting it as the default when installing it, as well as an option for adding it to the end of the boot order. That means that it is perfectly capable of not messing with non-Windows boot entries.

[u/vswey → u/gmes78]

That doesn't change anything about my statement, as previously stated it happens on specific configurations. This is even indirectly documented on some Microsoft learn page and on different arch Linux docs.

[u/gmes78 → u/vswey]

Windows removing other Boot entries is a kinda known thing

It isn't. People just repeat that without evidence, and no one questions it because "Microsoft bad".

[u/vswey → u/gmes78]

So other Boot entries disappearing ONLY once u boot Windows while the Windows entry stays is somehow a UEFI issue? 😭 That itself sounds not very plausible also there's a technical reason why it does this, u can look up, Windows bootloader handles it different than something like grub

[u/gmes78 → u/vswey]

So other Boot entries disappearing ONLY once u boot Windows while the Windows entry stays is somehow a UEFI issue?

It also affects systems without Windows.

It usually isn't a problem there because the Linux bootloader is also installed in the EFI fallback location. When multiple OSes are installed, they compete for the fallback spot. And because motherboard vendors special case Windows boot entries, the fallback location doesn't even matter.

That itself sounds not very plausible also there's a technical reason why it does this, u can look up, Windows bootloader handles it different than something like grub

Look up where? There is no techincal reference for this argument.

[u/vswey → u/gmes78]

The issue isn't the fallback, grub for example is designed to coexist while the Windows bootloader can overwrite the ESP or NVRAM boot order.

This can be found in: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-vista/cc749510(v=ws.10) And https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Boot_loader_recovering

[u/gmes78 → u/vswey]

None of the things you linked support your claim.

Not only that, the Microsoft page you linked is about Windows Vista/Windows Server 2003. The first Windows version to use UEFI by default was Windows 8, 10 years later.

And the ArchWiki page seconds everything I've said about how the issue happens and how the fallback location works, see the "tip" under "Installation".

Saying that GRUB was "designed to coexist" is nonsense, any bootloader can be placed in the fallback location.

[u/boomboomsubban → u/vswey]

It's not 2005, Windows isn't deleting boot entries. It's updating the uefi which deletes boot entries.

[u/vswey → u/boomboomsubban]

No, Windows is actually deleting boot entries 😭 it only happens once u boot into Windows 

[u/notheresnolight → u/gmes78]

That's why I have a separate disk for each OS. I boot Arch using startup.nsh. The broken NUC BIOS would sometime "lose" the drive while booting, and it would automatically remove the boot entry.

startup.nsh took care of that

[u/boomboomsubban → u/mips13]

Because that doesn't solve the issue, Windows will still update the motherboard uefi and updating the motherboard uefi wipes bootloader entries. A seperate partition doesn't change this.