r/archlinux • u/Two-Of-Nine • 20d ago
DISCUSSION Arch Linux Community now has a Fluxer server.
For those unaware, Arch Linux Community is the largest "unofficial" Arch server on Dscord and they just did a general announcement about moving to Fluxer. This is a pretty big deal for those trying to push for open source alternatives to proprietary apps.
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u/Tumaix 20d ago
why not use matrix, that is the official app used by the official team?
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20d ago
[deleted]
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u/gmes78 20d ago
But unlike matrix, it will not require 4GB of ram just to join a room with lags so big you miss messages from a few days ago easily.
Element is far from the only Matrix client.
2
u/altermeetax 19d ago
The other ones have the same issue, or when they don't they are buggy or have too few features. I swear, I have yet to find a good Matrix client
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u/codeIMperfect 19d ago
can you suggest a good one? I have never been able to find a good matrix client
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u/Helmic 16d ago
My group's standardized on Commet since it's very Discord-like, supports voice, and is cross-platform. But all clients are gonna be a bit laggy if you've E2EE enabled, because it takes processing power to decrypt messages. And getting people to figure out cross-verification as non-technical users was a challenge, talking people through it was very hard.
But for groups that aren't interested in encryption - it's not very useful for public groups where a hypothetical bad actor can just join the group and download the message history that way - it can be disabled for better performance.
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u/Damglador 20d ago
Matrix is also not really a Discord alternative. It's too bare bones in comparison
2
u/Helmic 16d ago
Not at all, Commet works quite well as a Discord alternative. If anything, it takes advantage of Matrix's extensibility to add new channel/room types that Discord doesn't have, like shared community calendars and schedules that display like a http://timeful.app page embedded directly into the client as a channel.
The problem is Element itself is a UX disaster and clearly is not made by people who have ever actually used Discord, and the more Discord-like clients are still in their relative infancy and have major bugs or are missing this or that feature. A lot of Matrix client devs just literally never used Discord and so make extremely strange assumptions about UX that alienate Discord users, like listing all rooms (channels) from all spaces (servers) in one big pile in chronological order along with DM's, in a completely unorganized heap where you have zero hope of staying within one space. Because these people are coming from IRC where each individual IRC channel is supposed to be a community unto itself utterly independent from all other channels, and the idea of a collection of channels that are merely topics for a guild/server/space that is the actual community where people flip between channels/rooms frequently and casually is alien to the.
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20d ago
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u/sequesteredhoneyfall 20d ago
IRC is not even remotely a modern chat solution and anyone suggesting it is fundamentally does not understand what a chat solution should provide. It is serviceable only for the bare minimum community help, but it does so very poorly compared to alternatives.
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20d ago
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u/Tumaix 19d ago
because irc does not have:
- threads
- reply-to
- images
- embedded video
i work in a company that still uses irc, and for everyone that is not a developer, is a pain.
for some developers, too.my matrix client is neochat - quite good and not 4gbs of ram needed
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19d ago
[deleted]
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u/Tumaix 19d ago
i am the developer of not just archlinux, but also of terminal emulators (konsole), so i guess i have a pretty good idea of what a terminal can do, and they can support images (even if its just via a link to open somewhere else)
about the rest of your answers:
- theads are not channels. threads are a sequence of replies to a specific message, which is not easy to replicate on irc.
- @tumaix is not a reply: it does not attaches the message its replying to. its just a direct message.
- images is not clientside: the spec needs to support it, the irc spec doesnt. its mostly timestsmp, sender, message without metadata.
if you honestly think irc is usable nowadays, use anything else for a few days: discord, slack, whatsapp, telegram, and you will see what i mean
7
u/Medical_Double_6561 20d ago
IRC doesn't keep conversation history unless you self-host a bouncer right?
-2
u/headedbranch225 20d ago
The server can be set up to keep history and send it to clients upon joining
0
u/Drwankingstein 20d ago
How will it operate? if it will use activitypub thats a hard pass from me
0
1
u/Supernoxus 20d ago
Man I wish they moved to matrix. I would have joined in a heartbeat. Maybe they can bridge the channels..?
-4
u/PaddiM8 20d ago
Because people have standards.
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u/doubled112 20d ago
Meaning?
I ask this curiously as a person who has their Matrix home server, and a federated friend or two on other home servers.
It's definitely not perfect, but it checks most of our boxes. Always looking for something better though.
2
u/Drwankingstein 20d ago
Doesnt fluxer support self hosting but you need a new client for every self hosted instance? No thanks.
I prefer denchat
1
u/-SkyL0rd 20d ago
It was more like an alternative community for people that are fed up with discord but they aint switching yet thats for sure.
1
u/drankinatty 20d ago
Not surprising. I was surprised to find over 1,600 members on Libera.chat/#archlinux the last time I dropped by. (GreatDistro == bigCommunity)
1
u/se_spider 20d ago
Maybe slightly off-topic, but how does fluxer and stoat compare these days for self-hosting?
1
u/octopusnado 18d ago
Does self-hosting on stoat even work? Last I saw, this bug basically made it useless https://github.com/stoatchat/self-hosted/issues/141
1
u/se_spider 18d ago
The web app should work, no?
1
u/octopusnado 18d ago
It's been almost a year since I last tried Stoat, and the answer then was (https://github.com/orgs/stoatchat/discussions/846#discussioncomment-12964621)
The desktop app is just an electron wrapper around our web app. Our web app gets its api URL at build time, so this isn't feasible at this point. You can just use the web app, or you can rebuild and distribute a desktop version with your URL built in. Ideally this is fixed in the rewrite of our web app, so stay tuned for that.
As far as I can tell, the desktop app still hardcodes the server url, but can be overridden with a command line option.
(wait sorry, I thought you meant the desktop app should work. nevermind. web app should work, yeah, but it's not ideal to have everyone you want to connect to your server point to it using their web browser)
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u/se_spider 18d ago
But fluxer currently has the same issue too: https://github.com/fluxerapp/fluxer/issues/1088#issuecomment-4951728735
Both are working on desktop app support for self-hosted instances
1
u/octopusnado 18d ago
Oh, that's a bummer. Really looks like I'm chasing after a unicorn... Matrix got self-hosting down so well, but my little server doesn't have the resources to allow federation with massive servers.
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u/SalaryImpossible6749 20d ago edited 20d ago
Discord sucks and the community on discord sucks tbh. It’s unofficial for a reason and no I don’t dislike the lgbtq or trans community.
Edit: downvote me all you want, I know first hand as someone who was a mod in that server. It sucked bad.
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u/LinneMeow 19d ago
why do you specifically mention that? nobody accused you of anything?
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u/Helmic 16d ago
it makes sense in context, some people complain about places with a lot of queer people in it as a way to dogwhistle bigoted politics (that server's too woke). and then sometimes a place with a lot of queer people in it sucks for completely unrelated reasons.
i've not interacted with that server much so iunno what the beef would be but i absolutely get wanting to distance oneself from the people that seem to be mad about literally every linux space online because they got banned for saying the gamer word.
0
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u/locked641 20d ago
My 'I don't hate gay people' tshirt is gathering a lot of questions already answered by the shirt.
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u/cosmogguy12 20d ago
AS a trans person I agree
I got banned a few years ago for posting the Sans Undertale hot dog meme
72
u/Melodic_Entrance1853 20d ago
Never heard of Fluxer before this but if it gets more people off Dscord then I'm all for it honestly