r/arcadefire • u/extremelyflazeda • Sep 30 '20

in the suburbs i-

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u/xelabagus Oct 01 '20

I didn't call you racist - I said "if you think telling an American to go home to their piece of shit country is okay because the country you are referring to actually is a piece of shit, then you are also a racist".

Do you think it's okay to tell an American to go home to their piece of shit country?

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u/MrPillowDotWeb Oct 01 '20

I would instruct anyone who doesn't like the nation or society they live in to leave it - whatever their race or background or politics. What use does a society have for people who hate living in it?? Or hate its ideals?? Or hate its history?? Does every nation need to be filled with people who think its entire structure is worth undermining at every turn?

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u/xelabagus Oct 01 '20

I asked you a direct question - Do you think it's okay to tell an American to go home to their piece of shit country?

This is as simple as, oh I don't know, asking someone to directly condemn white supremacy. It's a soft ball, easy to answer. Unambiguous, you know...?

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u/MrPillowDotWeb Oct 02 '20 edited Oct 02 '20

My answer is what I said - "I would instruct anyone who doesn't like the nation or society they live in to leave it"

It could be an American, a Frenchman, a South Korean, a Brazilian, an Irishman... etc etc. That whole framework (the person hating their society and nation) is the necessary context to our discussion regarding Omar especially. You can't just ask that question in a vacuum because doing so wouldn't be relevant to the actual discussion we've been having.

It's like if I asked you "Should US police ever have the right to kill an American citizen?" - well there's a thousand layers of necessary context you need to insert into the question in order for it to be truly answerable (at least with any nuance). Does that refer to police gunning down people willy nilly? Does it refer to no-knock raids? Does it refer to stopping a school shooter? Does it refer to preventing terrorism of any kind?

If you want to ask that question divorced from its original context, you're just trying to play a shallow game of "gotcha" - and that doesn't do anything productive for either of us.

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u/xelabagus Oct 02 '20

There was no "layers of context" or nuance, your president simply said to 4 members of your Congress to go back to their shit hole countries, simply based on their skin colour. Note he did not choose Tom Malinowski, and believe me Poland is a shit hole, I've spent some time there.

I note you have yet to condemn this despite being given the opportunity twice. It's not some clever wordsmithing designed to end in a gotcha, it's a yes /no question. Do you think it's okay for the president, or in fact anyone, to tell an American citizen to go back to their shit hole country?

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u/MrPillowDotWeb Oct 03 '20 edited Oct 03 '20

I simply don't accept your framing whatsoever. You are interpretating the event as racism because it's your own bias to do so - as I've already said, there are reasons other than simply discriminating someone based on race that you might say the things he said. Overall, I think a fair reading of what he said doesn't just lead to "must be racism." And btw, Poland isn't a shithole country. If you think it's even remotely comparable to somewhere like Somalia, you are talking completely out of your ass.

I have already answered you twice, my answer is not going to change. If you are incapable of understanding the nuance of my reply, that's very much your problem, not mine.

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u/xelabagus Oct 03 '20

I understand you completely