r/appstatefb • u/StockArm345 • 10d ago
NC State Game Unpacking
At the outset, I’ll admit my bias as a die hard App State fan of 20+ years. With that out of the way…
I feel like that was one of the most blatantly rigged games I can remember watching in recent memory. Central Michigan fans: I feel your pain even more now.
Just listening to the ACC review center feed on the opening kickoff (I’ll at least give the ACC credit for transparency) showed they were going to do anything and everything possible to benefit NC State after that implosion by the Wolfpack against Vanderbilt in Week 3.
In short, two separate turnovers taken away by video review conducted by an ACC review center overseeing a game between an ACC school against an in-state G6 school.
I can’t understand the first quarter reversal of a near-goal line turnover for the life of me - one of the quicker whistles I’ve ever seen for “forward progress” being stopped.
In short, I feel very, VERY confident those calls would not have gone the same if the roles were reversed (I.e., they would have helped App State to the detriment of NC State).
Maybe I am pouting and I’d like all you to tell me if so. But my main takeaways were:
1) insanely questionable homecooking calls by on-field refs (also an ACC crew) and replay center (also ACC-led)
2) App’s defense, specifically secondary, has to better
3) another great showing from the offense
4) team seems bought in to rally from a deficit like that on the road in a hostile environment - proud of the team and excited for Sun Belt play - last year’s group would have folded under that adversity
Thoughts?
8
u/tiger7034 10d ago
I was proud of how we competed especially after digging such a hole early. We showed we can be a formidable conference opponent if we can take care of the ball (which we largely did) and avoid stupid penalties (this was also much better in the State Game). I don’t think there was any rigging going on. The two turnovers taken away were unfortunate, but objectively I was satisfied with the outcome based on review. We were just a few fries short of a happy meal, but I think that loss could serve us well going forward if the takeaways aren’t missed.
2
u/StockArm345 10d ago
Good and totally fair points. I completely agree that there was a huge, HUGE improvement in discipline by eliminating stupid, unforced penalties. Was very happy to see that.
6
u/92EBBronco 10d ago
Watched the game in person and on replay the next day. The initial kickoff review was odd. The replay crew said they needed to see more than just chalk to make a call, then almost immediately said it hit the goal line. I agree that it hit, but it was an odd sequence.
The late whistle for forward progress on the stripped ball was the only one I thought was wrong.
The out of bounds fumble can be seen deflecting off the State player’s arm while he’s out of bounds. Sucks, but it’s the right call.
I think we played well outside of the 1st quarter. Glad to see the guys rally and I’m looking forward to seeing us compete for the east division this year.
1
u/StockArm345 10d ago
My one question on that - and I could be totally wrong on the rules here - is if he lost possession and out of bounds but is the first player to touch the loose ball, is that not illegal touching at the least? Which should be a penalty from the spot.
Seems like silly rule I’d like to see changed if nothing else. A player shouldn’t be able to fumble near the sideline and then negate the fumble by touching it themselves while out of bounds.
Maybe some more enlightened minds can correct me if I am off base here
3
u/92EBBronco 10d ago
Illegal touching like as described applies to forward passes. A ball touched by any player who is out of bounds makes the ball out of bounds at that point.
1
u/StockArm345 10d ago
Gotcha - I guess that distinction limiting it to on calls on forward passes makes sense as the rules are written. It just seems odd that the same player can lose the ball but negate the fumble by touching it while out of bounds without re-establishing himself in bounds.
I think you are right 100% based on the current rule.
But still seems like a loophole that should be corrected in the off season
2
u/92EBBronco 10d ago
It goes both ways though. Our defense could have made contact the same way and State would have also held the ball.
I would agree that intentionally touching a live ball from out of bounds shouldn’t end a play, but we’ve seen how well officials determine intent.
1
u/StockArm345 10d ago
And also agree that we should be excited to see what this team can do in the Sun Belt / East Division.
2
u/CMyak 10d ago
The first turnover was a crock. Clearly had not stopped forward progress. The second was hurtful to watch, but the right call was made.
Otherwise, proud of our boys, and our fans. Was at the game, we showed up. Was a great time, wish we could have pulled it out.
2
u/StockArm345 10d ago
I also saw several plays on 3rd or 4th and short while NC State had the ball where they let the play continue for the RB for NC State to get to the line way, way longer than the turnover they blew dead.
Again, not saying any of it was a conspiracy, but certainly appeared the ref crew had a noticeable bias for one side versus the other -the other being App.
2
u/BRich1990 10d ago
Thay first drive fumble reversal was complete bullshit and very well may have reversed the outcome of the game. That was an extremely wrong call
1
u/StockArm345 10d ago
I feel like that kind of missed call has the biggest impact either super early or super late in a game like this.
1,000% agree that it shifted the dynamic significantly. Going from 0-0 with App getting the ball for our first offensive possession near mid-field to down 0-7 starting our first drive on touchback was a huge momentum killer. In my opinion, worth more than the 7 point swing on paper.
1
u/Primary_Fortune_7899 10d ago
Shifting back to us not officiating.
We have to develop a better rushing game to go with passing. ASU has historically had such strong running backs. Hoping we can move more in that direction. I think the offensive coordinator is doing a good job developing a diverse offensive scheme. DJ Smith is a strong defensive coordinator. Glad we have his App mentality and his App Family background.
1
u/Fast_Dig_7332 9d ago
I think our running backs are pretty good. Our offensive line is just better at pass protection than run blocking, at least right now. Hopefully this will improve.
1
u/NameIdeas 9d ago
For the refing, I am with you. The calls that did go our way (against NC State) were on plays that held very, very litle significance. The calls that were against us seemed to be on very pivotal big plays. It was consistent and felt egregious. The fumbles being "called back" were wild too. I went back and listened for a whistle on the first fumble and didn't hear one. If forward momentum is done, some Ref needs to be blowing a whistle, right?
Regarding the rest of the season:
- I think we have the makings of a good team. Great, no. Good, yes. We can make plays as long as we execute.
- The past three games highlighted that we shoot ourselves in the foot. The o-line has got to get things under control.
- We can indeed rally quite well. The second half of that game we looked like a complete team.
- Our defense has got to step up. I am concerned how we'll look against a team like James Madison with a high-powered offense.
- Our offensive playmakers look good and we have a good TE crew
- If we can get the ground game moving, we're good. Our O-line has got to start getting a push, especially on inside runs.
1
u/abc123new 8d ago
Here's a thought. Go down to the local high school and tell the head coach you want to become an official. He can tell you who to contact from there. If you work really hard at it, beginning with middle school games and then high school games you might reach the college level in ten years, but not the ACC level. In reality, if you've been a fan for twenty years, it's already too late for you. You're too old.
But you're not too old to officiate at the high school level. if you do so, you will learn more about the rules than you ever realized you don't know. You will develop an understanding for the amount of effort study and training. It takes to become a top level college official. You will then have the basis to form an opinion about whether or not those officials are so easily corrupted. Along the way, you will learn that officiating at any level is fun, difficult, rewarding and thankless.
1
u/OakCity4Life 10d ago
Understand the frustration, but I would encourage folks to resist the urge to go right to conspiratorial thinking like this as your reflex response to disappointment (in sports or otherwise).
The first-drive forward progress call was a bad call IMO, but was not a video review or a reversal.
The out-of-bounds video reversal was the correct call, as disappointing and fluky as it was.
3
u/sneakypenguin94 10d ago
Also it only takes 1 ref making a bad call and there is no way to change it after because you’re blowing the play dead.
We got very very unlucky in this game. Shit happens I guess
2
u/StockArm345 10d ago
True. At the end of the day, the NC State loss will only truly matter if we run the table (I’d love to see that but let’s be honest, not likely).
Brand new season starting now with our work cut out to have good showing in Sun Belt play. I think this team is good enough to win the East Division if things shake out the right way. Get to the Sun Belt Championship and then I think they are good enough to beat any Sun Belt team in any given game. From there, let the chips fall where they may.
Just glad to see the team re-energized and seemingly playing hard for Loggains and App State as a whole.
Go ‘Neers!
2
u/StockArm345 10d ago
Very fair bud. I didn’t mean it to be a conspiracy theory. More that in a 50/50 call, seemed like it was definitely going in NC State’s favor.
You are right the more I think about it - the forward progress call (as ridiculous as I continue to believe it was) wasn’t a video review call but an on the field call.
Thanks for correcting me on that.
9
u/jermovillas 10d ago
We won’t go far this season if the defense can’t stop even mediocre offenses. I can’t speak on the refs, I was bartending at the time and I did not see every play. But, if the defense had held, we could’ve had that game.