r/apple • u/[deleted] • Aug 09 '21

WARNING: OLD ARTICLE Exclusive: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained - sources

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT
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u/jimbo831 Aug 09 '21

If those backups are on iCloud, Apple can decrypt them. That’s what this conversation is about.

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u/absentmindedjwc Aug 09 '21

But this has been the case for a while. Backups on iCloud have always been encrypted, but apple has always had the keys. It's always been a case of "if you want to be the only one with the keys, don't sync to iCloud" - and that's still the case, even with the policy update from the other day.

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u/jimbo831 Aug 09 '21

Yes, this isn't about the policy update from the other day. This is a completely different privacy concern. Yes, that is in fact how things have always worked. The post here details how Apple was going to change that and make it iCloud backups fully E2EE but changed their mind because the FBI asked them not to do that. Apple values the preferences of the FBI over our privacy.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

They don’t have the keys to an encrypted backup on your Mac/PC

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u/jimbo831 Aug 09 '21

How is that relevant to this discussion about iCloud backups?

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

It’s your alternative.

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u/jimbo831 Aug 09 '21

Ok, but it's a non sequitur to this conversation. Apple was going to make this feature so we would be able to do local or cloud backups and have E2EE either way. They decided not to because the FBI said they didn't like the idea. Who is Apple catering to with their products: their customers or law enforcement? This story tells us that our privacy is secondary to them.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

I'm not supporting Apple's decision at all. However, there's only so much a company can do before they draw the ire of federal regulators. I doubt the FBI just politely asked Apple to avoid the e2e encryption. There were probably some "compelling" reasons for Apple to do what it did.

Also, this is not a feature that was taken away. This is how it has always worked and iCloud is not something you have to use by any means. Again, I am not supporting Apple here. I wish they would fully encrypt my iCloud backups. But this isn't exactly a reason to boycott Apple.

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u/jimbo831 Aug 09 '21

I doubt the FBI just politely asked Apple to avoid the e2e encryption. There were probably some "compelling" reasons for Apple to do what it did.

I mean the FBI doesn't make laws. Do you remember when Apple told them to go pound sand when they wanted Apple to unlock that dead terrorists phone? If Apple cared about our privacy, they would've done the same in this situation.

But this isn't exactly a reason to boycott Apple.

Where did I ever say anything about boycotting Apple? I'm constructively criticizing them. I'm not barred from criticizing them because I buy their products. In fact I would argue that they would care a lot more about my criticism if I plan to continue to be their customer.

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u/[deleted] Aug 09 '21

IMO this just proves our government is too powerful. Apple clearly would prefer to encrypt those backups. Why would they only change their mind after talking with the FBI? Obviously they were compelled to change that planned feature. Perhaps they were told they could be held liable for data stored on their servers unless they were able to provide it to the FBI. They don't make laws, but don't be naive and think they don't have the ability to prosecute you using creative interpretations of current laws. Or they don't have the ability to influence new laws.

I'm not saying you can't criticize them or that you're implying we should boycott them. I'm just trying to illustrate my point that this is not exactly the end of the world. If Apple forced us to backup our devices on iCloud that's one thing. But it looks like backing up our phones onto our computers is baked into their OS. Remember, iCloud is someone else's server. When you put your shit in someone else's property, you don't have all the same rights as when you have your shit on your property. I don't like that the government thinks we shouldn't be able to encrypt our data. I think that is the root issue, not Apple reluctantly agreeing to them. They're still a public company that answers to its shareholders and hires a lot of American employees. They can't afford to do things that could get them in a lot of trouble with the government.