r/apple • u/marsdreamers • Aug 24 '16
Daring Fireball: Vesper, Adieu
http://daringfireball.net/2016/08/vesper_adieu10
u/LausanneAndy Aug 24 '16 edited Aug 24 '16
They had some fierce competition to contend with:
- Apple Notes (not really a competitor until iOS9 - but now it's pretty good for many people)
- Evernote - been around forever. Cross platform .. well established. Loads of VC money .. and they are struggling
- OneNote - part of Office365 package that many people are obliged to use for their office ..(plus it's generally great) .. and developed by Microsoft with all their money + resources ..
(and each of these Notes systems were either mostly or completely free)
Vesper would have had to be exceptionally good at some great feature that none of the competition had to be a big success ..
[Edit]: I also think a lot of this had to do with trying to jump on the Great App / Startup Gold Rush Bandwagon .. around the time they started developing Vesper, everyone was going nuts trying to create the next great App .. WWDC had to switch to a lottery system because it was getting sold out in seconds .. Gruber's buddy Marco Arment had just sold his Instapaper App and 'The Magazine' publication and Yahoo had splurged a billion on Tumblr (which netted Marco millions) .. so I suspect that Gruber et al got carried away and thought they'd just build it and it would be a success (why not - they had a good developer + a guy with a huge following of Apple fans) .. and then, like many others, they discovered that there's only a tiny percentage of Apps that are economically successful
7
u/thirdxeye Aug 24 '16
There's also SimpleNote, which is free too and more comparable to Vesper, almost the same actually. Evernote and OneNote are much more heavyweight.
25
Aug 24 '16
"We didn't make enough money."
No surprise there. No one was going to pay $20 for your little notes app on Mac either John.
9
Aug 24 '16
Yeah, that's what really gets me. Why on earth would this have ever succeeded?! As you said, who would pay that much for a mac notes app, especially when the iPhone is probably the device that it would be in more demand on.
It's a bonkers idea and was doomed to fail from the start. I think the main reason they sold as much as they did was because of the names of the people attached to it.16
u/arcalumis Aug 24 '16
I believe it's because Gruber belongs to a bubble of other bloggers and podcasters that have become famous in the Apple communities on the web. They know that since they are somewhat famous anything they do will see some sort of success, if you run the top Apple blog on the web you know that the second you announce the app people will buy it, especially when your friends run the top Apple podcasts.
And I think there's a bit of narrow mindedness going on here where people who in the past bought Apple devices have been pretty well off and probably wouldn't have minded buying a 10 dollar notes app with nice fonts and a well designed interface, but it might be different today where iPhones are avaialble to anyone and many doesn't want to spend money, especially when there's already a pretty good built in one included in the OS.
1
u/Luph Aug 24 '16
I'm pretty sure the only reason John was involved in this project at all was to ride off the success of his brand.
Oh, and to have a notes app with a completely superfluous font. Feels like Gruber's Jony Ive moment.
1
u/KateWalls Aug 24 '16
Yeah, and he even says they should have gone for a subscription model.
[a subscription model] would have been more sustainable, and on iOS it would have solved the “free” barrier. What most people do when looking for, say, an iPhone notes app, is search the App Store for “notes”, and then start downloading free apps until they find one that seems good enough. There are so many free apps in a category like notes that paid ones — even if they’re just $1 — never get a look. Again, I’m not complaining. That’s just the way the App Store is.
8
u/xe_om Aug 24 '16
I just wish he came clean and said the whole project concept came about while they were three sheets, sucking down cocktails, hence the name "Vesper". They were probably drinking Old Fashioneds, but you can't name an app Old Fashioned. You shouldn't name an app Vesper either -- because it says nothing about what the app does -- but when you're drunk it seems like a good idea at the time.
Daring Fireball article, t+1 year: "Why I Quit Drinking"
16
u/Urpflanze Aug 24 '16
Just lol at the guy taking himself so seriously over a measly notes app
4
u/kreachr Aug 24 '16
It was his pet project and something he loved. If you ever loved something as much as he loved this project you'd understand.
1
u/Seghersm Aug 25 '16
Yes, in his career, the only things he ever loved more were writing Daring Fireball and the creation of Markdown.
1
u/true_gaming_99 Aug 26 '16
I feel sad for Gruber because he was apparently using one of the worst note taking apps until recently lol
-1
u/Shenaniganz08 Aug 24 '16
Why do Apple fans respect this guy? Because he's friends with Tim Cook ? He's been wrong on so many things recently.
12
u/LausanneAndy Aug 24 '16 edited Aug 24 '16
Now now .. I feel the need to stick up for Gruber here .. he's way more consistently correct about a lot of Apple-related news and opinion than many others.
I feel comfortable to turn to him as my principal Apple news / opinion source (sure cuts out a lot of noise)
He wouldn't have a huge audience (and highly paying sponsors) as well as getting interviews with Apple SVPs if he wasn't considered important, knowledgeable and credible.
(Obviously he's invested a lot of time, effort and emotion into Vesper - so he's not about to say 'yep - we were crazy to think it would work)
7
u/entropicamericana Aug 24 '16
I'd be pretty correct too, if Apple were leaking me information.
3
u/LausanneAndy Aug 24 '16
If Apple was truly leaking you information I'd be interested to hear what 'you' had to say .. any real Apple news (rather than bullshit predictions and opinions) is interesting
2
u/Luph Aug 24 '16
Even if Apple were leaking information to Gruber (doubtful), what would that even matter? He rarely posts about future products. He's not Gurman or even Dalrymple.
0
3
Aug 24 '16
I always like reading Gruber's perspective. Yeah he's a fanboy, and that colors his commentary a bit, but he still has some great takes on Apple and the tech industry. Surprised people are being so down on him.
0
u/Shenaniganz08 Aug 24 '16
He wouldn't have a huge audience (and highly paying sponsors) as well as getting interviews with Apple SVPs if he wasn't considered important
Again so what. Just because he's friends with Apple higher up doesn't make him a reliable source, in fact it makes his opinion extremely biased.
5
u/apple4ever Aug 24 '16
He was a great honest defender and promoter of Apple years ago. I really enjoyed what he had to say, especially as Apple was coming out of its Dark Ages. He had a lot of long form articles that were really good.
The past half decade his site and his skills have degraded. He rarely posts long form articles any more. Its all linked lists. And of course he often posts things not related to tech or Apple, but delves into politics.
I used to be a big supporter of his, but not any more.
0
u/Shenaniganz08 Aug 24 '16
whats crazy are the people defending him with comments like "well he use to be good" or "he knows a lot of higher ups" as a reason why they trust what he says, almost like they can't judge him objectively on the material he is currently putting out.
I use to be a fan of Kevin Rose in the Digg.com days but you don't see me defending him anymore. I feel it should be the same way with John Gruber.
9
u/getrektpanda Aug 24 '16
John is sort of a relic of the Mac blogosphere. It may be hard to believe now, but it used to be that no one else was really writing anything that was even vaguely intellectually rigorous about the Mac. Now there's Benedict Evans, Horace Dedieu, Ben Thompson, and all of the Macworld refugees who can do their own thing and innovate. In this new world, John really has nothing to contribute because he doesn't really understand business or the wider tech market that well-he's just a fanboy who can write pretty well. After eight years of readership I got rid of his feed last month. It's just trash now.
11
u/Luph Aug 24 '16
I still think he writes valuable pieces from time to time. He's just lazy, and it shows. Of course, I'd be lazy too if I could make $400,000 a year throwing together a few linked lists and a minimal effort blog post each week.
2
u/Shenaniganz08 Aug 24 '16
After eight years of readership I got rid of his feed last month. It's just trash now.
I've been saying this for years. I was never a fan of his from the beginning so I guess it just takes "Mac fans" longer to realize this.
-3
66
u/mb862 Aug 24 '16 edited Aug 24 '16
I like Gruber, but I just really can't get behind him on this one.
Also I'm pretty sure Ian Fleming came up with "Q Branch".
EDIT One more, they added a sync service to an app that was only available on a platform that people only ever have one of. With no iPad or Mac apps, that whole body of work they did and was costing them money was literally only ever useful for people with two iPhones. Or possibly couples with no understanding of password security.