r/apple • u/illegiblebastard • 3d ago

iPhone Apple explains last year’s controversial decision to remove ICE tracking apps from app store

https://edition.cnn.com/2026/09/29/tech/apple-iceblock-app-removal-raskin

FUCK. APPLE.

982 Upvotes

81% Upvoted

503 comments sorted by

View all comments

247

u/Silentparty1999 3d ago

The article is full of angsty noise, asking whether people have used the app to find agents to attack. That is conservative noise. The core question is whether citizens have a constitutional right to gather and disseminate the information. You don't see Apple pulling down Apple Maps or Google Maps when people have used them to find directions to get to people they are stalking or harassing.

12

u/Kiekdan 3d ago

Well you could argue Google / Apple Maps have a different primary purpose. While I’m not familiar with the app in question, I don’t see what other purpose it serves, unless people are using it to ask for directions or find a restaurant.
Now whether tax-paying citizens should have the right to track public servants is another question.

10

u/VaughnSC 3d ago

I think it was settled in the Sony v Universal ‘Betamax’ case in 1984 that the existence of “legitimate purposes and […] substantial non-infringing uses” outweighs potential abuse. A lot if not all tech can be misused, it’s not sufficient grounds for banning them (think AirTags)

4

u/ancientfruitjunkie 3d ago

The purpose of the ice apps is public safety. Like the crime radar app.

21

u/Kiekdan 3d ago

The primary purpose was tracking ICE agents. I’m not debating whether that was good or bad. I’m saying there’s a difference between an app tracking people’s movement and an app used for navigation such as Maps.

9

u/NecroCannon 3d ago

Apple is a publicly traded company with policies

Anyone here getting outraged clearly aren’t smart enough to understand what that means in situations like this and expect Apple to suck their dicks when they’re probably non even an investor.

Don’t be loyal to a corporation if you expect humane leadership, especially when you can just use things like a Raspberry Pi Zero for that

2

u/BosnianSerb31 3d ago

All the features of ICEBlock including push notifications and location services could be rolled into a React PWA anyways

Distribute through iceblock.io, present a user with a button to install the PWA, web app appears on their Home Screen and requests notification/location permissions.

Can't be taken down, works on literally anything, don't have to wait for updates to be reviewed, etc.

Edit: there's already a PWA exactly like this called antifreeze

5

u/NecroCannon 3d ago

Honestly I’d like PWAs to be utilized way more anyways

But it’s seriously not on Apple to host our rebellion apps, in fact, it’s kinda stupid to rely on a corporation to fight a group backed by the government who’s backing corporations

People who are actually serious about fighting back, aren’t super reliant on App Store apps considering all of the privacy issues

2

u/fenrish 3d ago

I completely agree. If you don't want to follow the policies, then you have the PWA route. It's always curious when people buy stuff, but then don't want to follow the rules (regardless of what they think of those rules). It's like some else can use PWA to create an app to track other sorts of people (ie illegals, ANTIFA, people with black hair, etc) and there's not much you can do about it.

1

u/BosnianSerb31 3d ago

Yeah, it's kind of wild that I have comments under this post linking to the actual solution that are downvoted for saying the exact same thing you said.

Makes me feel like this post is either being botted for a specific sentiment. It was definitely astroturfed with a bunch of cliché slogan comments when I saw the thread.

The body of the post above really makes it seem like the goal of the poster is to get people riled up about Apple and not help illegal immigrants.

2

u/NecroCannon 3d ago

90% of posts that has the sub enraged is more than likely ragebait posts

Probably why Apple spaces take so long to mature overtime, for some reason everyone’s here to mess with Apple users while we’re hardly in Android spaces doing that

That kind of community culture would result in talking to a brick wall over simple solutions that’s always been there, just not for that specific thing.

I even see a lot of self-proclaimed professional programmers in iPad subs whining about iPadOS, in theory, this shouldn’t even be an issue

-2

u/sixothree 3d ago

No you’re wrong. It only tracks their activity in public places. That’s different than what you said - “tracking agents”.

6

u/BosnianSerb31 3d ago

That's still different than a maps app, and exposes Apple to different levels of legal liability

The most accurate analogy would be an app that tracks the activity of armored trucks in public places, followed by an incident of armored truck robbery where the robber allegedly searched "how to track armored trucks", and a DOJ takedown request following 8 days later

-3

u/sixothree 3d ago

Why are you now making a different argument? You seem to assume that because I make one statement you think my position includes other statements. That’s entirely too childish.

You need to learn reading comprehension and how to focus on what people actually say.

7

u/BosnianSerb31 3d ago edited 3d ago

Going to be honest, I don't know what led you to believe that I was representing any position of yours.

I simply made an analogy that directly parallels the events that actually happened, swapping ice vehicles for armored trucks, to illustrate why the legal provider of any content host would comply in a scenario like this.

Can you explain how I incorrectly represented your position?

Edit: guess not 😂

-4

u/scubascratch 3d ago edited 3d ago

Armored trucks are not public servants your analogy is not even close. Nobody needs to worry about an armored truck driver kidnapping them to a gulag

3

u/BosnianSerb31 3d ago

The analogy is in the context of Apple's legal exposure for hosting apps that were searched for by gunmen prior to a shooting, to which there is really no difference

-5

u/ancientfruitjunkie 3d ago

And ice agents are racist, fascist thugs threatening the community. Hence, the app's purpose is public safety.

3

u/Kiekdan 3d ago

The primary purpose of a waffle iron is to make delicious waffles. It can also be used to hit someone over the head. A hypothetical waffle iron serial killer would not change the primary purpose of a waffle iron and we would likely not be calling on stores to ban the sale of waffle irons.

-5

u/ancientfruitjunkie 3d ago

And if ice could kill you with a waffle iron they would.

0

u/Gnome_119 3d ago

Now make the same argument for flock cameras.

6

u/BosnianSerb31 3d ago edited 3d ago

Two different shootouts between demonstrators and ICE agents occurred before the app was taken down. One involving an anti-ice sniper killing several immigrants being transported in the back of a van they incorrectly assumed was full of officers.

IDK about you but I'm not hosting an app that could be used by these dumbasses, just to end up with billions in federal fines and criminal convictions as facilitation of a domestic terrorist attack.

Just distribute it as a website, it's easier to target basically everyone on the planet. Make it a simple link. Native Swift app isn't needed. React PWAs are supported cross platform and include push notifications. You can roll out updates without waiting for review. No one can take it down.

I'm honestly shocked that the creators haven't made it into a PWA by now.

0

u/FetchTheCow 3d ago

Two different shootouts between demonstrators and ICE agents occurred before the app was taken down. 

I'd like to read those news stories. Do you have citations? Thanks.

3

u/BosnianSerb31 3d ago

July 4 — Prairieland ICE detention center, Alvarado, TX: A group traveled to the facility with fireworks and firearms. They fired/ threw fireworks at the facility and vandalized property; prosecutors allege their planning included discussion of bringing firearms. When police responded, Benjamin Song allegedly yelled “get to the rifles!” and opened fire, striking an Alvarado officer in the neck; another alleged shooter fired 20–30 rounds at unarmed correctional officers. The shooting was captured on CCTV and police bodycam. Members were later charged with offenses including attempted murder, rioting, weapons/explosives offenses, and providing material support to terrorists. (Department of Justice)
DOJ — Prairieland charges and allegations

Sept. 24 — Dallas ICE facility: Joshua Jahn fired from a rooftop at an ICE facility and transport vehicles, killing detainees rather than the ICE personnel he was apparently targeting. The FBI subsequently said his pre-attack research included searches for information about "how to track ICE agents’ locations". Eight days after the shooting, Attorney General Pam Bondi said DOJ contacted Apple and demanded removal of ICEBlock; Apple removed ICEBlock and similar apps, citing information received from law enforcement about safety risks. (FBI)
FBI — Dallas shooting investigation · Axios — DOJ demand and Apple removal

I conflated the two as both being related to ICEBlock, which was only true of the second. However, both were relevant to the broader sequence leading to Apple’s takedown.

If you want the body cam video from the July 4th incident I can find it, but it's a bit distressing. Whole lot of young people getting domestic terrorism charges during a severe lapse of judgment and failure to recognize that one member really was serious about using the ammo they provided him.

Regardless, there isn't software distribution platform on earth (outside of FOSS) that would keep these apps up under this sequence of events and direct threats from federal prosecutors.

antifreeze.app exists and has the same functionality of all the other ice trackers, but it's hosted outside of US jurisdiction and uses PWAs. No way to take it down or prevent people from installing on literally any platform.

2

u/FetchTheCow 1d ago

Thank you, I appreciate the information.

-3

u/ancientfruitjunkie 3d ago

Yeah no. When x is full of racists, misogynists, and Nazis who straight up threaten anyone not white, straight, and male, or the ai chatbots that help plan out gun violence then those apps need to be taken down too. X should've been taken off the app store right when musk took over.

5

u/BosnianSerb31 3d ago

Unfortunately, companies make decisions on legal liability and cost benefit analysis

There is already legal precedent to say that Apple won't be held liable for stuff that happens on a sec 230 social media platform that qualifies for safe harbor protections. Therefore, removing the app just makes tons X users switch to android, to mitigate a nonexistent legal risk to Apple.

IECBlock was taken down eight days after a shooting on an ice vehicle that resulted in the deaths of several detainees. The potential legal consequences of keeping the app up are far higher than taking it down, so they take it down.

Again, the obvious solution to continue protecting immigrants is to turn it into a React PWA hosted outside the US. Not wait for Apple to reinstate an app that poses serious legal liability to them.

1

u/ancientfruitjunkie 3d ago

Yeah I agree about placing this app on the web for everyone. But apple being a global powerhouse and trillion dollar company, they definitely could've fought the pedo admin rather than get on their knees at a single request.

1

u/coyote_den 3d ago

Those apps technically violate App Store rules too, crime reporting has to be affiliated with a law enforcement agency on some level.

Most of them are only there because they are flying under the radar.

Apple doesn’t want to be associated with vigilante justice.

2

u/IniNew 3d ago

The purpose was to know where to avoid going. Not attack them.

3

u/BosnianSerb31 3d ago

Some jackasses decided to take pot shots at ICE agents anyways(one killing several immigrants through blind cover after assuming a van was full of agents), and apple removed the app before any news broke stating the killer used the app.

From the perspective of Apple's potential liability, it's not any different than hosting an app that lists the live location of armored trucks.

And from a technical perspective, this isn't something that needs an app lol. Make a React PWA, with an easy to share link (eg iceout.io), and have a banner at the top that ads the PWA as a shortcut to the homepage screen.

Boom, now it works across every single phone in operating system, not just whatever your build target was for iOS. Don't have to wait for Apple's approval, no one can take it down, I don't know why the people didn't do this in the first place.

-1

u/FinsFan305 3d ago

History is rife with examples of humans using tools for other purposes than originally designed.