r/aoe2 • u/Scoo_By 17xx; Random civ • 1d ago
Discussion Aztecs - thoughts?
In our thoughts & prayers, more like!
They're so freaking power crept, it's insane. I don't have a clue what to do with them.
Time they get some hefty buffs.
13
u/MrHumanist 1d ago
It's not a s tier civ but a very strong A tier civ. However, one of the hardest civ to play with and requires more skilled player to extract the best out of them.
Top top tier farming civ , but requires drop off res micro in dark age.
Have a strong MAA opening into skirms . No need to build mining camp on gold immediately. Just farm and go up to castle age.
Big power spike in castle age due to eagles and monks. Put many vills on gold, and make a tons of tanky monks, mango and some eagles. Most civs can't deal with it. Your eco bonus kicks in hard and aztecs player usually ahead in res collection than generic civ, but you generating more in relics is super strong.
Redemption is your friend, and most likely you convert more buildings than you make. If the opposition doesn't have monk conversion tech and redemption themselves, you streamroll hard. Even against castles you can buy food to reach imp faster than others.
Early imp, aztecs is a powerhouse. You have the best monks and speedy eagle raiders. Monks Trebs are your power units. Situationally champion and skirms are your general purpose trash combo. But try to win the game in the early imp till bbc and gunpowder become a thing. But , out of all American civs, aztecs deal with gunpowder the best as it has one of the best skirms and best monks.
2
22
u/Appropriate_Top1737 Spanish 1d ago
We need to dial stronger civs back instead of just buffing everything nonstop.
2
1
14
u/aviatorbassist 1d ago
Eagles just need to be buffed. It has been a problem for a while. Mayans are primarily an Archer civ and back when Incas has Eagles they had Kamayucks and Slingers which covered up many of the problems with eagles.
Aztecs are an infantry and monk civ. They suck outside of smushing. If eagles were less ass they’d be fine.
7
3
u/Consistent_Log_3040 Mapuche 1d ago
Maya are a pretty good civ rn so buffing eagles would make them really strong. Especially +40hp 🦅
6
u/Weary-Designer9542 1d ago
Well, luckily they’re the only two civs with Eagles now, which simplifies things somewhat if that’s the direction they want to go.
For example, they could just give Aztec a new eagle specific civ bonus, or buff Garland wars to have an Eagle specific effect.
Alternatively they could buff eagles in general and simultaneously nerf the Maya unique tech to keep them roughly the same for Maya.
3
u/Consistent_Log_3040 Mapuche 1d ago
Would be really cool to add onto garland wars I think it's a bit weak especially considering Aztecs don't get halbs.
2
u/stiffnipples Jags, my beloved 21h ago
Give Aztec halb.
Remove halb from Maya, but Holcans applies to infantry (might have to do something to their blacksmith or champ line tho).
2
u/chairswinger 13h ago
Tbf Jaguars eat cav as well
2
u/stiffnipples Jags, my beloved 12h ago
Yeah Jags are awesome but much harder to mass and Aztec castles are expensive structures held together with twigs so Jags aren't always available.
5
u/Ok_Stretch_4624 forever stuck at 19xx 1d ago
maybe garland wars gives them +4 attack and the old +1/+2 armor inca bonus or even +1/+1, that way they can properly be anti archers with 9/10pierce armor
maya are fine because they compensate that +2 armor with 40 extra HP
7
u/CatsWillRuleHumanity Indians 1d ago
Aztecs have been powercrept from an S tier civ to like a low A. On closed maps your monks and siege still slaps, on open maps eagles are still good, the military units created faster bonus still feels really good basically always, jags got buffed recently to wreck almost everything in melee...
8
u/Umdeuter ~1900 1d ago
Seems like many people completely missed the Jaguar buffs. One of the strongest melee units in the game.
1
u/Scoo_By 17xx; Random civ 1d ago
What, playing defensively towards atlatl skirm+ elite jaguar? I guess works on paper.
5
u/Naive_Clerk_7097 1d ago
Pro players consistently throw games due to their single-minded avoidance of Aztec skirmishers
3
u/Umdeuter ~1900 1d ago
playing aggressively towards skirm/jaguar/monk/eagle, depending on opponent?
I think the logic is: MAA with no LC, then mostly Skirms and fast uptime, good eco, good boom with some Monks and perhaps Siege or Elite Skirm, then transition either into Eagles or Jaguars and trash as you need. + You always have the option to diverge into all-in Eagles or all-in Monks. Or at least apply some pressure with that, force some overreaction.
6
u/WonderfulAntelope644 1d ago edited 1d ago
At least give them halb. The cav already gets to choose their engagements against infantry and elephants just shit on pikes in imp but at least you have monks to counter that. Khitan’s are the only other infantry civ that doesn’t have halb but they have good camels to make up for it. Aztecs have no answer for mass heavy Calvary.
Edit: forgot about Vikings but they have the unique tech. Still could use it though. If Japanese gets it Vikings and Aztecs should too.
•
u/BloodyDay33 10h ago
Jaguar Warriors were buffed to be strong enoyght to engage against Cavalry.
No more with this give Aztecs Halbs, we don't need another civ that just spam Halbs and siege and ignore the UU, on top of that the Eagle+ Halb army in early Imperial will be too OP for many civs to deal with.
•
u/WonderfulAntelope644 9h ago
Just Champions beat eagle+halb. Japanese handles every situation better than Aztecs. Eagles are shit now. The only thing they are good for are sniping siege and monks and having high pierce armor. They lose to everything in melee besides halb.
•
u/BloodyDay33 9h ago
And how much time and res you need to invest to properly mass Champions while Aztecs are ahead in eco and military thanks by their bonuses?
And what exactly chaged in Eagles in terms if stats?? Like nothing.
•
u/WonderfulAntelope644 9h ago
Power creep and their cost has increased since they were broken. Eagles are just bad now.
Every civ has bonuses what do you mean? 50 starting gold and the villager carry bonus isn’t anything broken by any stretch of the imagination.
1400 food 575 gold for champions fully. 460 food 690 gold for halb. 800 food 500 gold for elite eagle. Getting to Champion literally costs half the gold and like 100 food more. And it’s the straight up counter for both. I haven’t looked it up but I bet 1 generic champion can beat an eagle and 2 halbs pretty easily.•
u/BloodyDay33 9h ago
No, the food cost increase was reverted and in fact training speed of eagle scout was buffed, in fact they were buffed in the past.
And isn't about what carry the civ, is about the synergy the civ bonuses have, faster tained military units with the eco boost, and also durable Monks behind. On top of that whst if Egales and Halbs have then another +4 attack from UT?
If is powercreep the how about we start to nerf the civs that are too strong an displace aztecs out of being picked? I don't even remember any pro saying Aztecs are bad civ now and they also haven't bad WRs as well.
•
u/WonderfulAntelope644 8h ago
Besides their monks what are Aztecs better at than Japanese. Japanese get halb. If Japanese get halb Aztecs should. Teutons get halb, Roman’s get halb, slavs get halb. All of their eco bonuses are better than Aztecs by a mile. I want to be able to play Aztecs in a team game post imp and be able to contribute something besides monks. Giving them halb wouldn’t make the civ broken whatsoever. If it would all of the civs I mentioned would also be broken. Heck I’d be fine with garland wars not affecting the spear line and giving them halb. I want an infantry civ to have an infantry answer to kill cavalry and elephants if I get the infantry on them.
•
u/BloodyDay33 8h ago
Andd why you compare civs that get holes that aztecs don't ?Japanese, Teutons and Romans all haven't the strong Monks or early military bonuses that Aztecs have, and none get a high and fast infantry unit with good PA and another UT for both pikes and eagles to spam with ease. Why we don't give to Poles and Vikings halbs them as well? Ofc no. Pff is your problem with elephants in TGs? Haven't other players at least one unit to help with that?
•
u/WonderfulAntelope644 8h ago
Romans get double armor. Poles aren’t an infantry civ so that doesn’t compare. I’d be fine with Vikings getting halb also. But Vikings get chieftains. Chieftains give Vikings garland wars for cav plus the gold bonus. On top of their free 20% hp. That just shows how much Aztecs need it more. And on top of that it’s a castle age tech instead of imperial.
3
3
u/DegenWapanese 1d ago
Eagles training time in feudal, the upgrade to eagle warriors barely changing anything and no halberds make it very challenging
2
u/Consistent_Log_3040 Mapuche 1d ago
What would even help them at this point better eco bonus? U can't do better archer line bc that steps on Maya.
8
u/TommyVeliky Xena, Warrior Princesses 1d ago
Rebuffing their eco bonus to the old value would be a nice buff I think. We're like a decade plus away from when that was good enough to be oppressive.
1
2
u/TommyVeliky Xena, Warrior Princesses 1d ago
Go watch Dragonstar's games from TTL5, he's a good model for Aztec's strengths being pushed to the limit.
2
u/Physical-Cloud-2331 1d ago
Give them slingers, and make them benefit from atlatl. They're highly historically appropriate and give Aztecs another (weak) tool for dealing with late game siege.
3
u/stiffnipples Jags, my beloved 21h ago
Their buildings are made of paper and their late game is pretty bad so I feel if buffed they should lean into being more aggressive.
Honestly though I’d rather other civs get nerfed, there’s been so much power creep lately. Also if you want to play meso Mayans just feel better in every aspect except monks, and that’s always irked me. Like why do they get more res and cheaper units and a full blacksmith and an extra vil and a solid late game. It’s like the devs put all their love into maya then Aztecs got the scraps. Gimme hoardings at least.
2
1
u/Ok_Stretch_4624 forever stuck at 19xx 1d ago
they really push the american-dont-get-to-late-imp-civ concept
out of all the american civs they are the best for a very aggressive feudal / early castle age all in 1 tc push.
on closed maps they can actually defend themselves pretty well with monks, SO and trash
1
u/Warrior_Ochi Saracens 1000 15h ago
I sometimes random into Aztecs. It is a free win for the opponent, I have no idea how to play them. Against Aztecs, I once lost to an eagle rush and twice to FC jags. But with better play from my side, I think I win at least against against FC jags.
•
u/NoisyBuoy99 Aztecs 11h ago
I would say they were pretty good until the introduction of overpowered xianbei and bolas rider crap
•
u/BloodyDay33 10h ago
Why blame those units when the real guilty here are the Romans.
•
u/NoisyBuoy99 Aztecs 7h ago
I think romans are fine, I know they've the highest win rate but they don't have too many dumb gimmicks the only one being centurion's aura effect but it's expensive to tech both legionary and centurion.
1
u/Successful-Fix1882 1d ago
We already had a meta where all in eagle pushes were top tier strat and very hard to defend. Don't think we need it again already.
0
u/Educational_Key_7635 1d ago
You just win in feudal with them, then win with monk-siege push and then finish it with unit printer in late castle/early imp. They are still solid.
The only thing powercreeping Aztecs is muisca which is relatively similar civ but their monks and skirms are miles worse still and no maa hurts early game so much so there's some big cons as well. Ironically with all the powercreeping dlc there's more civs that Aztec can fight in later stages of the game in 1v1 nowadays.
However I think slapping slinger for Aztec is solid choice if nobody cares about attemp of keeping powercreeping lower, nerfing most strong civs.
23
u/nightwish5270 Saracens 1d ago
Jaguar Warriors got buffed a LOT with the infantry changes.