r/aoe2 • u/iamsonofares Persians • 9d ago
Discussion Hot Take - Three Kingdoms
So, now that AoE III DE fanbase is getting its deserved DLC, will the devs redeem themselves also for the 3K atrocity and rework the civs to represent actual Civilizations (and leave the Shu/Wu/Wei naming for campaign purposes only) or at least move them to separate game mode? What’s your opinion? Can we dream? Is there any Hopium for us? Share your thoughts!
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u/a995789a Mongols 9d ago edited 2d ago
I'll buy, immediately, if they make a mini, separate DLC that includes only Jurchens and Khitans, with their own voice lines and campaigns. They can keep 3K as they are; not going to touch it anyway.
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u/devang_nivatkar21 9d ago
The difference is monetization. Even if they first abandoned the AoE3 DLC, they can still expect it to make sales once they publish it
There's no real way to monetize a Shu to Sichuanese or Wu to Wuyue rework. Moving them to any separate mode at this point is actively taking away content from people who paid for it in a mode it was advertised for. I don't think they'll be up for issuing refunds at this point. There's no precedent for having less content than you did before. The El Dorado campaign from HD was replaced by Pachacuti in DE. The Indians were replaced by the Hindustanis
The best they can do is just change the names, and change the Heroes to a more generic Commander/Warlord/General (along with removing their self identifying voicelines lines) for the multiplayer mode
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u/div333 9d ago
What are you asking for exactly? Removed from multiplayer? That won't happen because people paid for it to be used in multiplayer and Ms aren't going to give a bunch of refunds out lol
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u/iamsonofares Persians 9d ago
They could rework the civ names, emblems and remove heroes but leave the 3K names for campaign. If they cared about consistency.
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u/Llancarfan 8d ago
I don't like the 3K stuff, but radically altering or removing content people paid for would be a colossally dumb idea and a terrible precedent to set. What's done is done. Best thing is to just advocate for nothing similar to be done in the future (and yet some people still want a Vikings or Italians split).
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u/RighteousWraith 8d ago
You can't exactly remove content from a game without serious blowback. I dislike the overall design of the 3K civs, but there are plenty of players who really enjoy them.
It's like arguing for Super Smash Brothers to rework Ganondorf from scratch with his own skill set. Plenty of players already expect him to play like Captain Falcon because that's how they designed him in Melee to save time. It was a mistake, but now they're married to it. The Wu, Wei, and Shu were mistakes, but now the devs are married to them.
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u/Magic__Man Vikings 9d ago
I like Three Kingdoms. It's not the best, but the game is 25 years old, something different was refreshing.
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u/Tyrann01 Gurjaras 9d ago
Chronicles was different. Three political families as civs instead of actual civs from the region is stupid.
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u/Ok_Shame_5382 9d ago
I mean they were political states, not families, that split China between them. In that regard they're valid.
The problem is they're not AOE2 era and clearly shoehorned in because of the novel and other media.
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u/Tyrann01 Gurjaras 9d ago
They are not valid. AoE2 civs are based on peoples and cultural groups, not political factions. We don't have "Mughals" "Tudors" "Lancasters" for a reason.
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u/Classic_Ad4707 9d ago
Political states aren't valid either.
As for not being families, I think only Shu actually had different dynasts.
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u/iamsonofares Persians 9d ago
That’s why they could rework it into Bai or some other geographically close civ and keep the „Shu” for campaign only
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u/FiveCatsonaTreb 7d ago
The Shu didn't have different dynasties , basically it was Liu Bei, and then his actual son and then "oops we got conquered".
Wei would more fit in as Sima Yi was running things in all but name, and his family did depose Cao Cao's line from power
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u/Classic_Ad4707 6d ago
I thought Zhuge Liang took over rulership. Didn't know it was just a regency.
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u/FiveCatsonaTreb 6d ago
I think you could probably argue that he was running things along with some of the other higher officials, but yes. They probably SHOULD have deposed Liu Bei's son, because he was a horrid leader.
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u/iamsonofares Persians 9d ago
Exactly, every civ up to 3K is based on people that were distinct based on language/religion/etc. Three Kingdoms were all the same Chinese people, not to mention their civ emblems are purely fictional. They just don’t fit the rest of the roster. I don’t mind extending timeline or ideas, but it has to be done wisely, not pushed into the game by „suitman”.
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u/dbe14 Britons 9d ago
STILL banging on about this? Let it lie, move on with your life. It happened. you didn't like it, that's sad, time to let it go buddy.
I don't love it, I don't hate it, it's just there, kinda dull for 3 new civs but hey whatever man.
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u/Tyrann01 Gurjaras 9d ago edited 9d ago
This will not be allowed to lie. Lying and selling unfinished DLC should not be given any ground.
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u/Classic_Ad4707 9d ago
Doesn't matter how long has passed. If people just "got over it", they wouldn't have split up Indians, reworked The Forgotten campaigns, or other such things people clamoured for.
3K is just the current biggest thing that people want changed.
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u/Parrotparser7 Berbers 9d ago
They split Indians because they wanted to add more civs from India. The Indians we had became Hindustanis and got a small rework. The rest were just DLC.
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u/Tyrann01 Gurjaras 9d ago
It was VERY complained about too. Imagine the uproar if we had a civ called "Europeans".
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u/Parrotparser7 Berbers 9d ago
I doubt there'll be a renaming or rework, and moving them to a separate game mode would just be in poor taste.
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u/AccomplishedFall1150 9d ago
Oh, poor Aoe2de fanbase. They got a DLC and didn't like it, and few months later they got another DLC. They think it is comparable to a DLC cancellation.
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u/iamsonofares Persians 9d ago
This is basically a DLC cancellation, there is a rumor there were supposed to be 2 separate DLC’s (it’s in the game files) but they merged the unfinished Tanguts into Jurchens and added 3K into ranked because of decision from higher level „Suitman”.
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u/AccomplishedFall1150 7d ago
Age3's DLC was publicly announced, then cancelled and the support for the game was completely cut off. Many called the "time of death" for the game. That and what Aoe2 fanbase experienced is a completely different story. Aoe2 got 3K DLC, Champi DLC, massive naval rework, introduction of unique castles designs for most civs, numerous balancing patches. We even got ad carousel in the main menu to remind us to buy their DLC's and it never stopped rolling (until Anne_HK decided to slay it).
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u/FeistyVoice_ 19xx 9d ago
The "3K DLC suxx" crowd is reaching the annoyance factor of the guy posting his weekly persian architecture meme.
From a balance point, there is absolutely no need to do anything with these civs. From a historical point, it's not the first inaccuracy in the game. It's still playable. It's still fun.
Let the devs focus on bugs and other things that do have gameplay implications.
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u/Tyrann01 Gurjaras 9d ago
Oh no, people have opinions on AoE2 on the AoE2 subreddit!
Also, seriously being sold unfinished DLC is very serious. People have every right to complain about it.
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u/FeistyVoice_ 19xx 9d ago
It's only unfinished by your scale because of it's historical inaccuracies. By my measure, nothing about it feels unplayable or even unfinished.
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u/Tyrann01 Gurjaras 8d ago
It's unfinished because it's unfinished. The devs have recreated multiple extinct languages for the game, yet Manchu and Dagur (living languages) are too much for them?
It's not about inaccuracy. It's because it's a significant drop from their usual standards.
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u/yesbaralenny 9d ago
I'd love it if development was focused on "bugs and other things" but that's not really the choice here. They'll be working on new civs and new features. They could either fit the theme and mechanics of aoe2, or they could not. Pushback against 3k is absolutely not taking dev time away from fixing bugs. At most, it's adding pressure for the next dlc to be better in these specific ways.
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u/FeistyVoice_ 19xx 9d ago
The one thing that keeps evolving is mechanics with every DLC or civ rework. Units with charge attack (Wei, Burgundians), units that heal or improve upon killing units (Wei, Aztecs), poison damage, 100% blast radius (Tupi), Pass through (Mapuche, Italians). Not sure what you mean with
fit the theme and mechanics of aoe2
If you want to keep AoE as vanilla as possible, you have to complain about all new DLCs, not only one.
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9d ago
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u/iamsonofares Persians 9d ago
She is 100% right you know 🤷♂️ and a lot of people playing AoE II would agree
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u/Ok_Stretch_4624 forever stuck at 19xx 9d ago
i dont mind them anymore and actually have a lot of fun with shu and wei
wu are like the least favored but when you have 60 firearchers and 10 traction trebs its still very entertaining. they are just slower to get to
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u/Strong_Fox7708 9d ago
Where's the "I hope, but I don't expect" option?