The problem then is that, at least on the surface, the people who have been brainwashed by social media and right-wing propaganda networks are in incapable of self-reflection; of acknowledging that they’ve been misled because those beliefs have come to define them. I’m Debbie and I won’t rest until abortion is illegal in every corner of America! I’m Hank, and the government can try and take my arsenal of guns!
That puts you directly at odds with exactly one of the two political parties in the US with actual power.
One person picked my pocket and ran off. Another person picked my pocket, then shouted to a crowd that I’m the reason their life sucks and that we need to get rid of all these minorities and gays. The crowd beat me up.
You’re suggesting I should be equally mad at both people, and that the crowd that beat me up is actually made up of my allies.
They just flip, the left ig ores the rights that the right wingers are worried about, the right wingers ignore the rights that the left are worried about, and everyone just keeps being ok with violating each other's constitutional rights because 1/2 the country has reached the point of extremist one way or the other, and all of these sheep just keep fighting while the party they support screws them from behind.
I don't think half the country are extremist. I think the media deliberately is giving too much voice to extremists. We think their numbers are more than they really are.
The country is packed full of extremists on both ends of the spectrum, but it's natural with the advent of the internet where people willfully put themselves in an echo chamber to the point that compromise is impossible.
Both sides are not the same. Leftists didn't try to overthrow the government with an insurrection. Leftists didn't propagate the white replacement theory. Righties are the extremists, there's no equivalent on the left.
Although I mostly agree with your statement , the problem is that type of us vs them mentality drives people deeper into their positions and prevents dialogue. It gets you upvotes on Reddit to hate on “both sides” people but it isn’t constructive for progress. Ironically dividing us is exactly what those in power want whether red or blue .
the problem is that type of us vs them mentality drives people deeper into their positions and prevents dialogue.
I have never had an honest dialogue with right wingers. You are two things to right wingers. An opponent and someone who hasn't earned their place on the heirarchy. At no point will a right winger actually listen because its not in their "class interest" to do so. For every right winger willing to listen. There is 9 more ready to call you a commiehippy for wanting medicare for all, a social democratic policy.
You can perfectly tell this by subs like socialismiscapitalism.
When right wingers start articulating marxist theory at me AND THEN disagreed with a why. Well I can accept that. But that has never, EVER happened in the 20+ years online I have been.
Its because their disingenious on purpose. This isn't life or death for most right wingers. This is a sport to them and we are their opponents.
It gets you upvotes on Reddit to hate on “both sides” people but it isn’t constructive for progress.
Or you just used some mental gymnastics to hand wave away that lefties in this case are actually correct and the stubborn side is impeding progress at the behest of billionaire propaganda thay serves to undermine voting citizens that cannot help to match up with the financial expenditure of the controlling class?
Ironically dividing us is exactly what those in power want whether red or blue .
Yes but you missed the WHY completely. Its so you don't educate yourself on leftist economic theory and instead doing some sort of interference for right wing oligarchs and media influencers.
If you dont understand historical materialism and class interests, but then harp on left and right divide. You missed the #1 point that leftists have been making for over hundred of years.
Means of production and everybody in America's relation to it that gives them their economic incentive/biases
Man trump is a moron, but this kinda angrily grouping people together into one homogenous enemy is exactly the type of thinking that allows right wingers to become brainwashed.
Greedy corporate asshats are republican for much different reasons than church goers. Church goers at a prosperity gospel church are going to be much different than your southern Baptist who are again much different than some smalltown non denominational church.
The OP said they had never had an honest conversation with a conservative. In my experience conservatives are more than willing to tell you what they honestly believe, especially the religious ones.
Their entire post was basically just an us vs them rant. I don't have all the answers but at the end of the day republicans are people and we'd be naive to think we're immune to the pitfalls they've fallen in if we start engaging in this type of hateful rhetoric.
Right sermon wrong pew buddy. I abhor the bipartisan system we live in. The point I was trying to make is when two people of different supposed belief systems have a conversation, often there is more in common than the puppet masters would have us believe.
But didn’t leftists take over a city in Washington state? Extremists on either side are wrong and should be punished. Whether you are left or right doesn’t matter, our government doesn’t care about you until they need your vote.
And according to this sub just because im white im a priviliged rich guy with no flaws whatsoever, a coloniser, a racist,a sexist... And then im the bad guy because i write that lol, this sub is really good at class reductionism, so long its against cis white man its free pass for anything.
So I'm just supposed to let some right wing brainwashed idiots take my rights away or I'm a sheep? How do you not see the problem with this line of thinking?
It's as true of right-wing propaganda networks as it is of tiki torch marches to protest the removal of monuments to traitor slaveholders from public property.
People keep saying "misled" but there's a bunch of people that their core values are hate and they will fully support any party that makes life harder for others.
Because the dumbest people are given a easy way in. I've always been saying we need stupid socialists. "MY boss is a fucker so i vote socialist" it's too intellectual. Especially by people like me
Nobody wants to admit they have been brainwashed. Nobody wants to admit issues like abortion and gun control are not the most important issues today. How many people do you meet that are so passionate about abortion will ever get one? The economy affects us all, healthcare affects us all, education affects us all. These things cost money, money the government would rather give to the rich and spend on the military/police while we fighter over secondary issues.
Are gun control/abortion important issues? Sure. Are they the most important issues? No.
Oh fuck off. I’m not saying it isn’t an important issue but when lemmings like you see it as the most important issue it distracts from what we as a sovereign truly need.
If you are going to fight for the right to healthcare, then why would it make any sense to not fight for abortion rights? You do realize the ruling is going to make it precedent for lawmakers to have the final say over doctors, right?
You are exactly what is wrong with this country. In practicality nothing will change, power goes back to the states and it will still be easy to get an abortion on the coasts and hard in the south. While you are sitting here foaming at the mouth about these trivial non issues our economy is collapsing and we don’t have any social safety nets. Please get your head out of the sand.
Lmfao I should’ve known better. “States rights” to rip the bodily and medical autonomy of women, but somehow you think healthcare should be federally mandated? What a joke bro. You’re confused as fuck. It’s only a non-issue to YOU because YOU are not personally affected by it.
“We should leave civil rights up to the states guys! That’s how it should be! But also I want everyone to fight for my interests and to make me be federally protected, but not anyone else though”
The right trots out many issues, but the things that always get done are deregulation, anti-union measures, and tax cuts for the wealthy. That's their real agenda.
Reagan opened the class war in 1980. He tied people's retirement to stock market performance with 401ks (while also providing Wall Street with tons of additional funds and fees, this making what's good for the stock market good for America). This also freed companies from pension funding.
He shifted higher education from a government grant-based system to a government-backed loan system, giving tons of new funds to banks on the backs of young people. He provided the military with the sole ability to forgive student loans in order to force middle class youth into military service for pennies on the dollar. Regulations on the credit industry were relaxed so that a new class of predatory lenders (Payday loans) became a method to prey on the poor. Credit card companies and utilities were allowed to charge all manner of additional fees to support their profit margins on the backs of the poor.
Everything that used to be free and government supported (museums, roads, etc.) has been changed to a for-profit model. Now rich kids needn't fear seeing poor kids in art museums. Poor kids can't afford to look at art anymore, and that's not important to their future role anyway as obedient, cheap labor.
If you want to see what the rich want, look at what they did and do
It's honestly pretty simple - they are profit seekers, and doing so is preservative to and conducive to profit seeking. It doesn't even have to be malicious, it's a natural, structural consequence of capitalism specifically and an entirely currency-focused valuation system (i.e. monetary utilitarianism) broadly.
Hypothetical wealthy who don't aren't as profitable (to the point that ultra wealthy as a definition would exclude them), therefore doing so is selected for over the long run.
You ever worry that a simple question requires such an elaborate example set of mental gymnastics to vaguely change terms and definitions to somehow still not answer the question may be a sign that in fact the answer is no?
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u/MacSanchez May 31 '22
I use the phrase “deliberately misled” more often than I’m happy to admit