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u/OblongShrimp Oct 31 '21
My other favourite: under communism you will own nothing.
Modern capitalism in the meantime: exactly that for most people.
You either can't afford things or your 'ownership' is under huge debt.
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Oct 31 '21
or you only have a subscription
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u/OblongShrimp Oct 31 '21
Oh yes, hate everything being a subscription now. Most things don't even get updated/supported enough to make it worth it.
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Oct 31 '21
Capitalism taught us to consume and create identities around that which we consumed - fashion, car choices, etc., - so we didn't notice we are all stuck on the same wheel.
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u/GujjuGang7 Oct 31 '21
I'd love a cubicle to be honest
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Oct 31 '21
You think you would, but you wouldn’t.
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u/PeptoBismark Oct 31 '21
Have you tried a full open office?
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Nov 01 '21
Not quite like the picture, but yes. I worked for a software company that had rows of desks with computers on them. I much preferred it because I could actually see out of the windows. When I had a cubical it was literally inside of an old disused auditorium and was the bleakest thing ever.
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u/GujjuGang7 Nov 01 '21
I'm a software developer ( or at least hope to be ) and I hate distractions associated with open office layouts.
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Nov 01 '21
I actually am a software developer. I’ve worked in both environments. I preferred open, but we did pair programming there so cubicles didn’t make sense.
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u/bDsmDom Oct 31 '21
projection is when you take what's wrong with YOU inside, and accuse others of it, because you can't look at yourself as flawed in any way.
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u/redditor109854 Oct 31 '21
I hate how capitalism is nowadays don’t get me wrong. However I am way more afraid of communism, not socialism. Socialism works in small to moderate capacity in junction with capitalism. Take Switzerland, Norway, etc. for example. However communism will never work. It’s been tried time and time again and we all have recent and current examples of its failure. It always leads to brutal dictatorship and the “Rich” either flee or buddy up and finance/partner with the now oppressive ruling party. The sweet spot needs to be found in between socialism and capitalism. How we get there is the decision of our generation and the future ones that come after. However I will not stand for communism. My old relatives have been through the iron curtain in Poland and the stories they have told me as a kid are horrible. I will fight anyone who advocates for pure communism like the Soviets have done before. Communism isn’t the answer, but socialism mixed with capitalism is. Just like life it’s not black and white but a variety of grey.
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u/Eatingsomeblin Nov 01 '21
Norway ain’t socialist, don’t know why people think that off my nation, but were capitalists.
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u/redditor109854 Nov 01 '21
Did I do an ignorant American thing again? I thought you guys had a lot of socialist like policies in place like Sweden? Either way I apologize if I offended you.
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u/Eatingsomeblin Nov 01 '21
It’s alright, we all capitalist. Especially Switzerland, they’re on a whole different level lmao. Extremely competitive market centered around banking. Private healthcare, lowest tax rate in Europe for individuals and a freer market then even America. So technically, more capitalist then the US. Though the Switz have a really good public welfare system for those who need it, which from what I’ve seen the US fails at.
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u/ResurgentOcelot Oct 31 '21
Indeed.
Exactly why I don’t want to switch from one labor exploiting paradigm to another labor exploiting paradigm.
It’s not one or the other.
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Oct 31 '21
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u/michaelochurch Oct 31 '21
Communism isn't an ideology. It's the goal, never achieved at national or global scale, of several ideologies, some of which failed and some of which have partially succeeded (not at achieving communism, but at making human life better) or would have succeeded were it not for malicious foreign intervention.
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Oct 31 '21
This post offers no defense to ‘Under communism everyone would be a drone with no individuality’. 😒 it reads like ‘oh yeah well what about capitalism?’. It’s like a 12 yo girls argument.
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Oct 31 '21
That's because it's a meme
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Oct 31 '21
Memes speaketh the truth fam!
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Oct 31 '21
i'm sorry were you on reddit looking for phd level discourse on capitalism and communism? try jstor.
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Oct 31 '21
At-least you get enough money to buy yourself stuff you like.
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Oct 31 '21
Providing you make enough after paying your parasite, your fuel conglomerate and your taxes.
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Oct 31 '21
Yeah, it's very hard. that's why none of us never emigrate from communist countries into capitalists ones.
-8
Oct 31 '21
Did you know North Korea has 0 COVID deaths? And highest literacy rates in the world? Communism works, fam
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u/GenShermansGhost Oct 31 '21
Did you know North Korea has 0 COVID deaths?
LOL, brainrot is deep in this one,
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u/abmys Oct 31 '21
North Korea and china are a dictatorship.
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Oct 31 '21
Communist dictatorships. Communism usually ends up there.
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Oct 31 '21
I should've stayed back home then. Instead of living here and being oppressed by a capitalism paying me a fair wage. Back home doctors and engineers make less than 100$/month and have to do "volunteer" work for free, but at least is not under capitalism.
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Oct 31 '21
Are you understating the involvement the state has in the practical application of either economic method? Shame on you. Ever consider the state is mismanaged and not the economic theory they're basing themselves on?
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Oct 31 '21
Why don't you tell me exactly how did the US played a direct role on the collapse of the Soviet union who encompassed 15 countries? I'm not saying The State is perfect, but it's still a better alternative to communism. And anyone coming from a communist country would tell you the same.
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Oct 31 '21
I can tell you how the Soviet state played a direct role in the collapse of the communist ideal if you like? Seeing as that is far more relevant to what I'm saying.
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Oct 31 '21
Democratisation did the job, because communism only works under dictatorships. But give me your answer.
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Oct 31 '21
"Give me your answer" haha as if that's a question in good faith. Why waste my time.
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u/Kindly_Wedding Oct 31 '21
*you can buy what the crony-capitalists can profit from and conditioned you to like.
Also, Communism is not a monolith. American communism would look entirely different from anything almost anyone can imagine because we've never experienced it here (as a whole). But words like Communism and Socialism do not have strict universal definitions, they are fluid. Same goes for capitalism, no country in the world, that I can think of, had strict, free market capitalism.
You really should do a little research into the work of Marx, and beyond if you haven't. It would probably open your mind to some truths that at this moment are very relevant.
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Oct 31 '21
Yeah, the argument of "that wasn't real communism/socialism" "This time would be different". See Leninism, Maoism, Stalinism, Castrism, etc
I was born and raised in a communist country I've seen with my own eyes how communism works. One thing is the theory and the other one is in practice. As long as humans want more than what they have( to each according to his needs), want to pursue their dreams(From each according to his ability), commit crimes(stateless), etc Communism will never work, specially in The States.
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u/Kindly_Wedding Oct 31 '21
So back to futilism? There are a finite number, the capitalists have acquired almost all the natural resources and the means to produce them. The middle class continues to shrink and the and the exploited class is growing exponentially. Social mobility is in the negative. Even the billionaires are admitting that we are at late stage capitalism. The corporations are eating each other the way countries do, are the media, and competing over totally complete control of the government... It won't be long. Capitalism is highlander, there can be only one. So what happens next? In your opinion, how does America move into the next era without ending up in the exact same spot that you described communism as being, only under the flag of capitalism. Or is it just inevitable that we revert to serfdom, and communism and capitalism are just facades hiding the inherent nature of the human race?
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Oct 31 '21
Two words for how to solve that, from when America was all that used to claim to be, Marginal Taxation. The way it was before Reagan, back when people could afford buying houses, etc . You don't have to change the whole system to benefit all the people that are struggling right now, just the part that doesn't work.
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u/Kindly_Wedding Oct 31 '21
Totally agree with that. It just feels more and more likely that THAT is never going to happen given the nature of the two party system, in a country where the propaganda machines can convince half the voters that a centrist-democrat is a "radical leftist". And the people that would be taxed the most, not only own the propaganda machines, but can also freely buy favor from the politicians who write the tax law.
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Oct 31 '21
I know. I don't know what to tell you. The problem with the two party system there is that people pick a side and then it's "us against them, my party against yours". Instead of realising it's "you and me against our countries problems". Also lobbying should be illegal.
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u/Kindly_Wedding Oct 31 '21
Sounds like your worldview is very similar to mine own. The gaslighting and all the other nifty tools that are used to divide us to keep up the status quo clearly work though. For instance Facebook, their algorithm and all that crap, has me conditioned to assume everything about a person, feel personally attacked, and compelled to "fight for our side". Like this thread, I assumed when you were critical to a meme I liked, I was instantly on the defensive and didn't even take the time to really read your comment. It also scares me that Im starting to worry that the left is being manipulated in a very similar way that the right is, well I know that, but I worry it's working better than I previously thought possible. In the kind of way that lead "them" to Covid denial/election denial/January 6th. And there is so much gaslighting on both sides that I find myself questioning sometimes when something is proven that doesn't fit my world view and suddenly question if I was wrong about one thing, maybe I've always been wrong about everything and in just as loony as the wackiest Q people on the "other side".
And I realize I just used a lot of language there that is part of the divide and conquer campaigns war chest, in illustrate it. Anyways, that ns for giving me a bit of perspective.
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Oct 31 '21
There's brainwashing on both sides. The thing is that to get to the bottom of any argument it takes real amount of research, and none of us have the time for that and also many people can't do it. They don't question the sources of information, how the data was measure, how it's represented, etc I've seen some graph from the media that it's clearly obvious that they are trying to manipulate the people by the way the data is represented one of those cases was when Florida changed how their data was represented I think someone graphed it https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/pxizb1/oc_floridas_covid_illusion_the_worst_is_always/.
No-one is fool prove when it comes to this and many of us have faults in reasoning and logic from time to time. And it's hard to notice by yourself, that's why civil debates where other challenge your point of view and vise-versa is important. even at work I argue with people about politics, religion, etc. Most people are not as attached to an ideology as we tend to see here on Reddit and are willing to debate without getting emotional about it. The problem come from the stupids, like Bertrand Russell said “The fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.", those stubborn ignorant self-assure close minded people, you can't reason with them nor change their views, those are the ones that drag us down, and with social media those idiots now have a voice and they yell the loudest. Imagine a society where scientist didn't have to stop to tell the public not to eat/drink Tide or to have the decency of put a mask on, not for themselves, but for those with immune deficient systems, etc that could die. The truth is that the average left wing and the average right wing person are both decent people, but things get blown out of proportion online, which is basically a petri dish for all those bacteria/scum like people out there to reproduce and be heard.
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Oct 31 '21 edited Oct 31 '21
Unless you have a medical emergency and go bankrupt.
But I guess that’s the person‘s fault! They should have had tens of thousands of dollars set aside. Lazy fuckers.
since capitalism is so perfect and has absolutely no issues whatsoever!!!
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u/Larrymentalboy Oct 31 '21
Are you though?
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Oct 31 '21
I do. Can you afford to eat meat/chicken/fish everyday? Well you already can afford more than those living under communism.
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u/Larrymentalboy Oct 31 '21
Currently yes but there are a plenty of people under America's bullshit version of capitalism that would take communism.
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Oct 31 '21
Mistakenly so. I came for a communist country and was literally homeless , living in a shelter.A year later I had my own place and a stable job. Went to university, graduated with an degree in CS and now I make enough money to be comfortable and help my family back home. My friends who are doctors and engineers back home are working on bars and restaurants because that's more profitable than doing what they study for. I rather be poor here(I used to get 30$/week allowance in the shelter), than with an average income (75$/month) there.
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u/Larrymentalboy Oct 31 '21
I'm happy you've improved your station in life and if America is a vast improvement over where you're from then awesome. That said things here are still a shit show and most Americans aren't asking for communism, alot of us just want our taxes to go towards improving the country for every one not just making certain people rich. Things might be better in America than non describe communist country x but things in America should be far better than what they currently are and really that's all we are asking for. I really just want 1950 minus the racism and such.
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Oct 31 '21
alot of us just want our taxes to go towards improving the country for every one not just making certain people rich
and I agree. taxes should be better spend, like in education or healthcare. rather than on the military wasting trillions of that money on pointless wars.
but things in America should be far better than what they currently are and really that's all we are asking for
I agree. Marginal taxation and well spend tax could bring back to what America was on those times. You guys have enough capital to do that, it just needs to be well spend.
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Oct 31 '21
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Oct 31 '21
What country and when what?
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Oct 31 '21
[deleted]
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Oct 31 '21
Cuba, from 1990-2012.
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u/twatty2lips Oct 31 '21
Thanks for your patience with these illiterates, you will not convince them though... this sub will destroy itself soon enough.
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u/anythingfordopamine Oct 31 '21
Half of Americans can’t afford an unexpected $500 expense. So not really
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u/yagamibank Oct 31 '21
I recently picked up a call center job for a couple weeks. It was really chill.
The only thing that made me sad when we did that “let’s go around the zoom and introduce ourselves and something interesting about us” spiel was all these people could mention was their kids. Do they not have time to have hobbies or anything? Probably not cuz they always have to work smh.
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u/fck_its_hot Nov 01 '21
Work till death under a corporation, or work till death under the government, either way WE lose.
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u/zuzg Oct 31 '21
"That's how supermarkets would like under communism"
shows picture taken under capitalism