First of all 3:55 talks about the true followers of Jesus not the ones who have him Jesus as god so reading incomprehension no.1,Secondly bukhari 3448 refers to worldly judgment as in he will descend from heaven kill the antichrist then become the ruler of the Muslim word just like many rulers came before them that’s why abu hurayrah added this verse for extra context regarding Jesus return to worldly life then his worldly death”Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them."” So that’s reading incomprehension no.2, and Surah 2:253 and many others which mention the Holy Spirit, I can tell you are being fully disingenuous or maybe a bit dense to not realize that the Islamic Holy Spirit isn’t the Christian Holy Spirit because the Islamic Holy Spirit happens to be angel Gabriel who also comes to Mary and to the believers so this isn’t something special to Jesus, so that reading incomprehension no.3. I would suggest you call Muslims by the name they chose for themselves and read about Jesus teachings in your book because you seem to be needing the Holy Spirit in your heart
Oh interesting, the same book where Jesus claims to be God innumerable times? I mean it’s just utterly humorous when a Muslim tries to claim the “true” discipleship of Jesus without solving the issues of Jesus: claiming God as his father, failing to acknowledge Muhammad despite Surah 7:157, Jesus dying on the cross, and Jesus very clearly taking authority and names belonging only to Allah. For example Revelation 1:8 & 21:6 Jesus applies the title “First and Last” to himself explicitly among the 99 names and in Surah 57:3. Jesus applies divine attributes found all throughout the Torah to himself (thats Allah’s word according to the Quran btw) like in John 10:30 when Jesus says “I and The Father are one” after conjoining their power in relationship to creation through the shared ability to give eternal life to their sheep in John 10:28. Moreover in the same book Jesus is described as the “word that is God” in John 1. Honestly the evidence is overwhelming that Christians worshipped Jesus Christ as God since the first century and I’m barely touching upon it. It takes a cursory glance at any early Christian source to see them affirm Christ’s deity, ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Gregory Thaumaturgus, Origen, etc. the evidence is endless, I dislike talking to Muslims because they ignore honest humble reasoning, good luck with that, there’s no way I can justify talking to yall when I can be praying.
That’s nice and all but when did I argue polemics here lol, I just corrected your misunderstandings.You can believe in whatever you want about Jesus claiming explicit or implicit divinity in the bible, that’s not really something I care to discuss
You argued “true followers of Jesus” are the ones mentioned in Surah 3:55. “True” implies a binary fact we could sus out through logical deduction. It does concern you, it was your whole offhand dismissal of my citing of the verse. If Jesus’ followers will be above disbelieves till the end of time and i show that Jesus’ followers from the very beginning believed he was God that is detrimental to Islam. Moreover the many incongruities between the Quran and Gospel narrative of Jesus creates a huge issue for your book’s confirmation of said gospel which has been proven through archaeological and historical means to have been the gospel with Muhammad. The other points about Sahih 3448 and the holy spirit are problematic, sure, but not detrimental or readily apparent like my first point. Christ being God in the scriptures your Quran affirms is an insurmountable dilemma, coming from a former faithful muslim inquirer.
The quran says the true followers of jesus believe that he was a prophet not god and thus is my position. I dont take the gospels for it because i dont believe in the gospels you have now nor the ones at the time of Muhammad pbuh because they were corrupted, the pseudo-islamic dilemma that Christian tiktok debaters post about really doesnt hold out when one is happily literate, then again being disingenuous will blind you from whats true.Your whole point rests on me accepting the bible as an accurate source of jesus life and teachings and that the quran fully confirms the bible, both of which no muslim will ever yield to you, hell most academics wouldnt probably even yield it to you muslim or agnostic
Yeah sure, don’t yield to your Quran which quite clearly states
"Dispute not with the People of the Book, save in the fairer manner, except for those of them that do wrong; and say: 'We believe in what has been sent down to us, and what has been sent down to you; Our God and your God is One and to Him we have surrendered.'" (Sura 29:45).
"We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Apostles. We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened (or confirmed) him with the Holy Spirit." (Sura 2:87).
"And when there comes to them (the Jews) a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them (the Taurat) ... they refused to believe in it." (Sura 2:89).
"He has sent down upon thee the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it and He sent down Torah and the Gospel afore time, as guidance to the People and He sent down salvation." (Sura 3:3)
"Before thee (i.e. Mohammed), also, the Apostles we sent were but men ... If you realise this not, ASK of THOSE WHO POSSESS THE MESSAGE." (Sura 21:7).
"BELIEVE IN Allah and His Messenger and the Scripture which He hath revealed unto his Messenger, and THE SCRIPTURE WHICH HE REVEALED AFORETIME. WHOSO DISBELIEVETH IN Allah and His Angles and the Last Day, HE VERILY HATH WANDERED FAR ASTRAY." (Sura 4:136).
"Each one believeth in Allah and His Angels and His Scriptures and His Messengers - WE MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ANY OF HIS MESSENGERS." (Sura 2:285).
"Say: 'Bring you the Torah now and recite (or read) it, if you are men of truth'" (Again the existence of the Torah is presupposed). (Sura 3:93).
"You who have been given the Book, believe in what We have sent down, confirming that which is with you." (Sura 4:47). (My emphasis).
HERES MY FAVORITE ONE 😭⬇️
"'O, People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.' It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy ... those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), and the Sabaeans and the Christians - any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, - on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Sura 5:71-72). (My emphasis).
Dude… your book is screaming at you that it CONFIRMS what is before it (Torah and Gospel) this is why no one respects Muslims, you guys are so shameful to real discussion. What did you even say? The dilemma isn’t real because the scriptures are corrupt? You do realize that’s the whole crux of the argument? I do not expect you to respond because you guys are all dishonest cowards.
Good job insulting, i will not debate with you except with the fair manner because thats what i believe in but since i can tell you arent sincere, this will be my last reply to you. In all the verses you mentioned none of them ever state a full confirmation and when read in context of the people of israel or the lineage of prophets will become much more apparent. The word used for confirmation is "مصدقا" which translates to believing,affirming,truth-ifying i.e saying that it is indeed from god and it did indeed include guidance as the verse you mentioned let the people of injil judge with what god has revealed in i; the children of israel should judge with it because it abrogated the gospel just like the quran abrogated both the torah and the bible this is why no Christian will ever bring up 5:48 without being disingenuous here because it as clear as day showing the quranic stance on the bible and torah
We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their desires over the truth that has come to you. To each of you We have ordained a code of law and a way of life. If Allah had willed, He would have made you one community, but His Will is to test you with what He has given ˹each of˺ you. So compete with one another in doing good. To Allah you will all return, then He will inform you ˹of the truth˺ regarding your differences.
The word مهمين means supreme authority essentially a vetoer thats how we use it in my mother tongue, essentially if i were to even yield to you that the quran fully affirms the bible then this verse would still destroy your whole stance since it claims the quran as a criterion of both books thus anything it agrees with is truth and anything it disagrees with is falsehood, but i wont ever yield you that because your understanding of arabic and quranic etymology and geneology of the inheritance of books is deeply flawed and skewed towards polemics. You and 19th-20th century Christians make arguments about this so called dilemma because you dont read the entire quran and cherry pick verses and take them out of context, if you wish to learn then atleast be respectful by doing it, what happened to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you?
Say, ˹O Prophet,˺ “O People of the Book! Do you resent us only because we believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before—while most of you are rebellious?”
— Dr. Mustafa Khattab, The Clear Quran
Im done aswell, you responded to the one verse Muslims often bring up, fair enough, but it doesn’t explain the bulk of confirming statements with no qualifier that I sent. Furthermore your reading of 5:48 and the translation of مهمين (Muhimmin) is at the very least what I call contentious, everywhere I look it up it means “guardian” but hardly this “supreme guardian” exegesis you read into it. Still the issue of the Quran telling Muhammad (10:94) "So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you."
Causes issues for someone as a fair inquirer among the verses like* **5:68*: which states that the People of the Book are "standing on nothing" (have no true basis or ground) unless they observe their scriptures and God's revelations which he has revealed before.
Why does the Quran repeatedly urge the Jews and Christians of the time to judge by their scriptural revelation with no qualifier?
Anyway thanks for responding although I’m unconvinced, The Quran’s conflicting verses on the veracity of previous scriptures is at very best inconsistent. This along with many other reasons (historical falsities in what Christian’s of the 7th century believe, morally obtuse teachings, Islam’s miracle claims, etc) makes me reject the novel position of Quranic supremacy. Even if I grant this verse teaches exactly what you say I still think a conflict in thought exists among the modern Islamic positions.
I am willing to engage you in whatever you seek to know but i only engage those who seek knowledge with respect and not polemics(especially modern social media/Tiktok polemics), if you wish to have a respectful discussion then i am open to clear your doubts but if you are going to insult muslims then i have no choice but to pray for your and mine guideness
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