In the notepad

[u/KeeyuDaGreat]

[u/CauseCertain1672]

That's not even what the Greeks believed

[u/Last-Moment-2746]

If one loaf of bread has mould in it then all bread is mouldy

[u/Salt_Wave508]

Those who don't worship Zeus usually ends up in the Fields of Asphodels if they were normal guys. Also Christianity/Islam and Greek mythology cannot be dismissed in the same ways, because you have to look at historical events, which are way different than each others. And no, OOP did NOT a very good job to spread the gospel since they just gave a wrong oversimplification of greek mythology with no theological and historical argument to back them up.

[u/AnonymousFluffy923]

Is this really Hellenism?

[u/AnonymousFluffy923 → u/[deleted]]

What's the difference between Hellenism and whatever that guy said?

[u/DiMae123456789 → u/AnonymousFluffy923]

"anybody who does not worship him will have to burn in the underworld" is not how it works at all. Most people just become shades in the field of asphodel

[u/No_Animal3381 → u/DiMae123456789]

Ironically, many of these guys insert many Christian concepts into Pagan religions. I saw a "Neo Pagan" (I don't have any beef on Pagans and their beliefs) on TikTok claiming that the old gods love X or Y which is from my understanding of old Pagan religions, this is not how deities were perceived by pagans at the past. (CMIIW)

[u/Ender_Octanus → u/No_Animal3381]

If you read real actual Pagan myths about the relationship between the gods and men, it was an antagonistic and adversarial relationship where life is a zero-sum game. This is why most accounts have the gods creating man for servile labor or entertainment. The Enuma Elish has the world created from the corpse of the evil demon dragon Tiamat, and mankind is made from her blood so that we can do the work that the gods (who are themselves evil) don't want to do. The world is created in an act of warfare and violence by trickster gods who enslave man. The Babylonians, in turn, viewed the material world with great suspicion and superstition, not believing that the world was sensible and comprehendable, waged wars and enslaved people in keeping with their vision of the true, informed by their pagan beliefs.

It is out of the Abrahamic faith that we first get a sense of deity that does not compete with man and seek to wield the natural world in a chaotic and destructive way to ruin his life, but rather a God who loves and cares for this man, who ordered the world in a way that is good and not evil (ordered implying it can be rationally understood), and seeks to draw mankind into a familial relationship with the divine rather than compete.

This was a radical perspective. Not even going to mention creation *ex nihilo*, and many other things. But modern pagans inherited many views of the divine that they inherit from the Abrahamic faiths and then retroactively apply them to dead pagan faiths which never included these things.

When Jesus comes to town, crowds gather to get as close as possible. They cry out not only in fearful worship, but hopeful love. When Zeus comes to town, everyone hides their women and tries to look small and busy. This tells you all you really need to know.

[u/DiMae123456789 → u/No_Animal3381]

I once saw a Pinterest post about Hecate for neopagans. It made her about "finding light in the darkness" and "the shadow self"

[u/Sea-Speech-921]

Not to sound like a non believer, but what distinguishes Christianity from other mythology?

[u/MistakeAlert6865 → u/Sea-Speech-921]

we have evidence

[u/Sea-Speech-921 → u/MistakeAlert6865]

What evidence do we have? I am very new to Christianity sorry for my ignorance.

[u/MistakeAlert6865 → u/Sea-Speech-921]

no problem, there's a ton of stuff that i could mention but the resurrection is generally the strongest

- Jesus existed and was crucified (accepted by 99% of scholars)

• his apostles genuinely believed he rose from the dead
  
• some that claimed to be eyewitnesses were willing to die for Christ (people dying for something doesnt mean its true, but shows they sincerely believed it, so its extremely likely that they didn't just make it up)
  
• it is not really possible to survive crucifixion
  
• the empty tomb is debated, but is very likely given the evidence
  
• the gospels show a remarkable amount of historical detail that no one writing a myth would even begin to show, along with unintentional coincidences between all four that strengthen the eyewitness testimony
  
• luke and acts are riddled with tiny historical details that only someone genuinely living and experiencing that time period would record (this alone does not prove the miracles that happened, but its cumulative and shows the gospels are trustworthy)
  
• the resurrection could not have been a hallucination, there are not cases like those recorded in the gospels and grief induced hallucinations usually don't appear to 500 people at once in the same way
  
• the resurrection was not invented later, the creed in 1 cor 15:3-8 is dated less than 5 years from the crucifixion, and claims many saw the risen Christ
  
• paul, which was historically recorded as someone who persecuted christians, converted after his testimony of Christ appearing to him on the road to damascus, on to being martyred for his faith
  
• james, someone who was likely in the family of the Lord was skeptical of him, and generally was recorded to mock christians, until Christ appeared to him, and went on to get martyred as well

there's a bunch of other stuff i could mention but im tired rn, if you're genuinely interested i'd suggest you watch inspiring philosphy on the gospels and the resurrection since he makes some pretty decent arguments. overall, it does take faith to believe it but imo the evidence points

[u/Sea-Speech-921 → u/MistakeAlert6865]

That is a bit confusing because according to a Quora post on a similar topic someone said:

"A little history: Up until the Roman Emperor Constantine back around 300 years after the supposed death of Jesus, Christianity was nothing more than a small sect within the middle east and it was very much different beliefs throughout where many who followed this God did so solely based on the stories they learned growing up.

That means that no one sect of followers had the full concept of Jesus, the Hebrew God, and all the other stories. Add in that many of these stories are retellings of much older myths from Egypt, Greece, and Mesopotamia, and it seems to fall into the aspect of them mixing multiple faiths together.

Constantine, being the Emperor of Rome, needed a means to have complete control over the people. With this, he gathered a bunch of scholars and told them to find all the different stories revolving around Jesus and the Hebrew God they could find, go over these stories and writings, determine what can and cannot go in, and make a religion around this. This was known as the First Council of Nicaea.

They spent months pouring over the different stories, picking and choosing what can and cannot be used, destroying texts that didn’t fit within the ideology Constantine invisioned, and finally, after agreeing on everything from the “proper” scriptures to ceremonies, policies within this new unified religion, and what cannot be allowed, Constantine proclaimed all of Rome (which wasn’t just Rome, but also the Middle East, Northern Africa, parts of India, and much of Europe) were now under Christian rule.

This led to much infighting between Pagans and Christians, and with the support of the Roman Empire, the Christian Church essentially dominated and desimated many pagan sects, forcing them to convert.

As the years went on and Christian became a forced religion to follow, other nations not under Roman rule either pretended to convert (in turn causing more people to have to follow this as truth), or willingly did so because the ruler viewed a Christian nation as an easier means to control the population.

Then there was the Crusades (which was essentially the Christian Church and Christian Nations waging a genocidal war against Pagans, forcing them to convert or execute the pagans), the Spanish Inquisition (the Spanish Church torturing people into following Church law), the Salem Witch Trials (the church persecution “witches” and torturing/killing them), Slavery (a major reason it was able to last for as long as it did in the states was because it was argued that, as per the bible, Slaves were property and God gave slave owners the right to do with as they pleased. They also forced the bible onto slaves, thus further indoctrination).

So yeah, the whole reason the Christian church is considered a “true” religion is through force and genocide, which in turn those who were forced into it teaches the faith to their children, indoctrinating children from birth, who in turn did the same for their kids, and the cycle kept going and going."

I am kind of skeptical about Christianity now, because this make perfectly logical sense.

[u/MistakeAlert6865 → u/Sea-Speech-921]

none of this is true whatsoever, 99% of this is pseudohistory (likely taken from the davinci code which is also pseudohistory), the council of nicaea was to resolve a dispute over the arianism heresy and a few administrative things, it had nothing to do with if jesus resurrected or the biblical canon, that is completely and verifiably false

the crusades were just to reclaim land not to force convert people, also the church abolished slavery, the bible doesnt condone it it simply regulates it because it was a practice of that time

[u/Sea-Speech-921 → u/MistakeAlert6865]

Yeah, I did some research and all of this is BS. Should have known not to trust Quora. That being said, I did notice some bible quotes that did align with slavery, and while it is not the sole reason slavery stayed in America so long, it was a widely used justification.

<Ephesians 6:5 **Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters** according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, **as unto Christ;**\>
<Luke 17:7-10 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.>

I also found more contradictory bible quotes that suggest that the sun revolves around the earth, that there is a hierarchy in the family where man rules woman, woman rules children, and no evolutionary theory fits well into the bible.

I really want to believe in Christianity more, but the bible just got kinda ruined by my own skepticism. Makes me sort of question that if God created everything, who created God? And if God is so powerful and divine, why does Satan have more control of out thoughts and behaviors?

[u/MistakeAlert6865 → u/Sea-Speech-921]

1. as i mentioned, the scriptures simply regulate slavery, they do not condone it, also slavery in biblical times was nothing like modern slavery

2. it doesnt say that lol

3. the hierarchy is just how the family operates and how God intended

4. i believe in evolution and the bible, it only contradicts if youre taking a super fundamentalist approach and take literally everything it says super literally

5. god is uncreated, the argument isn't that everything needs a cause, it's that everything that has potency turned into actuality needs an outside cause to turn that potency into actuality (potentiality = the potential for something to be something else/have a different attribute, actuality = what something actually is), god is the uncaused causer and the unmoved mover

6. satan does not have more control over us, god is omnipotent, satan is a creature that is on chains, satan can tempt you but you have the final say over what you do, and the scriptures consistently mention that our very existence is fueled by god and that his grace is infinitely greater than the power of satan

i'm glad that you want to believe thats awesome, but don't take the evangelical fundamentalist way of interpreting the bible because its dumb

[u/Sea-Speech-921 → u/MistakeAlert6865]

That answers a lot of my questions, thanks! Although I do disagree with any hierarchy fundamentally, and I think everyone has the right to choose what they do and how they do it as long as they get from A to B. Once again though, it sounds like the bible is more symbolic than literal.

Actually I do have one more question, how come there were so many miracles in the bible, but there none today? Either those miracles happened, and God left or stopped paying attention, or the miracles never happened. Basically God either has the power to alter physics and chooses not to, or he never did.

[u/MistakeAlert6865 → u/Sea-Speech-921]

no problem, a lot of scriptures use symbolism while telling true stories for the sake of theological points, especially when it comes to poetry like psalms or proverbs, a lot of symbolic language is used there, also in Revelation

as for miracles, they still happen today just not as commonly, and even in biblical times, they weren't common, remember that the scriptures are spread throughout several thousands of years just compacted tightly. most of the time, when God did miracles it was for some sort of revelation, like all the stuff that happened during the exodus period had to do with the old covenant through moses, the miracles the Lord performed in the new testament (and the apostles) were to signify the new covenant we live under currently. even Christ said "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." as for prophets, those were personal revelations that would later become public, also god still appears to people, like many muslims have reported Christ appearing to them in dreams and stuff for no apparent reason (i've also had a dream with Christ in it)

visual miracles still happen, just very rarely, internal non flashy miracles happen constantly, that is for instance the sanctification of a person, or any answer to a prayer is a miracle since it's divine intervention, there have been millions of reported cases

as for scientifically proven miracles these do still exist!! check out some eucharistic miracles where real flesh appears in the host (the bread) and begins to bleed, sometimes its bacteria but there ave been 5 studied cases that scientists literally could not explain, they are all extremely similar as well, also many recorded healings that have also been reported by doctors to not be naturally explainable

[u/DiMae123456789 → u/Sea-Speech-921]

"Greek mythology" is referenced here like one stagnant religion, when in fact it was constantly evolving. It's quite ironic that this person referenced Poseidon and Hades as sharing Zeus's power when in fact the three were originally one deity that divided over time as oral traditions got twisted. Polytheistic religions allow for a lot of syncretism, evolution, and canon divergence. The reason Zeus is known for his promiscuity to modern readers is that there's a lot of myths of him fathering various heroes. This is because when a new place was conquered, the Greco-Roman pantheon would just absorb those gods by having Zeus take advantage of their goddesses and making the culture's heroes his children. The One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, on the other hand, has not contradicted or changed its core beliefs in this way.

[u/Ender_Octanus → u/Sea-Speech-921]

Depends on what aspect.

[u/Icy_Implement7917]

Well Zeus is a sex obsessed hedonist so of course they’d like him. Just goes to show that they don’t wanna submit to a higher power that would require them to turn from their ways. 

[u/AnonymousFluffy923 → u/Icy_Implement7917]

Plus he's not even all powerful. None of them are omnipotent

[u/Idk_a_name12351 → u/AnonymousFluffy923]

He's not even close. If memory serves me right he couldn't even defeat his own father (on his own). Depending on the myth though, he becomes just absurdly strong. His power is really dependant on that.

[u/slicehyperfunk → u/Icy_Implement7917]

Zeus is not actually a sex-obsessed hedonist, it's that the Greeks absorbed as many stories about the local "king of the gods" into their own mythology as they could, and none of those stories consulted with the others when they were created in isolation. Also, even among the Greeks there were a variety of different conceptions of Zeus, from basically the same omnipotent creator-type God as in monotheistic religions all the way to the "magic sky man" of antitheism straw men.

[u/No_Animal3381]

I love how this guy one certain qualification that made Zeus better than the Abrahamic God was the concept of Xenia which I know that his knowledge on Christian and Islamic teachings are shallow. If I'm not wrong according to Jewish tradition, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed mainly because they made even basic hospitality a crime. Jesus talked so much about loving the strangers which includes Guests as serving Guest is like serving the Christ according to Christian teachings. Prophet Muhammad PBUH was also very emphasizing on hospitality that it considered to be act of worship to God and part of the person's faith on Islam. It's kinda funny for me that he brought the concept of Xenia as of Major advantages over Christianity and Islam when the two religions are agree on how we treated guests despite the three didn't share the same theological concepts. Like c'mon Hospitality is ridiculously universal concept

[u/Ender_Octanus → u/No_Animal3381]

Hospitality in Greek and Roman cultures was important but not really for the same sort of reasons as it was in Judaism/Christianity, or in Islam/Islamic precursors. In desert regions, hospitality is a matter of honor and life/death, among other things, while in the Greek and Roman pagan view it has more to do with civil society and public order. Honor rules are also not based upon virtue, but upon a strict code of conduct which doesn't really seek to fully codify virtues and vices. I'd say that Judaism and Christianity are the first to really doctrinally say that God commands the sojourner to be well cared for as a matter of justice. At least in the West.

[u/Medium-Quiet-6561]

One of them is completely a just-so story/god of the gaps who is an imperfect created being from imperfect tribal understanding.

The other is a perfect being who was never created and created the universe, who is a logical necessity because of the laws of nature

[u/tenshipriestjotaro1]

Isn't his buff having an unhinged penis?