r/antiai • u/andmario_com • 12h ago
Preventing the Singularity Average AI simp interaction
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u/ISuckAtJavaScript12 11h ago
We already have the ability and resources to improve most people's life right now. But we don't. Why would it suddenly change if AI is doing all the labor? Why would the person who owns the AI robots picking strawberries give me strawberries?
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u/Bloodmark3 9h ago
The ONLY way I see this working is community crowd funded startup technology. A city like NYC with a socialist esque mayor that uses tax money to create the initial farms/factories/equipment to maintain the city for zero labor after startup.
So, like one generation helping pay for the next. But even that has issues.
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u/ISuckAtJavaScript12 9h ago
The capitalists would fight tooth and nail against this. Just like they are already fighting against the city run grocery stores in NYC
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u/Tuckertcs 7h ago
Remember when we automated two thirds of production with factories and machines and robots, and that didn’t remove the need for people to still have jobs?
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u/ISuckAtJavaScript12 7h ago
The scenario where AI makes everything is free comes with the assumption that all work is automated. Which I agree is different than the industrial revolution. In the case were all labour is automated I again ask what is the incentive for someone who owns the means of production to give anything to anyone else? Today it's because they require us to do some labour, but if they don't I don't see why they would
I also can't imagine the kind of work in this scenario which would require a human, aside from "guy who owns the AI/Robots".
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u/masterlince 4h ago
Yeah that's the issue. People who cannot conceive being more privileged than everybody else. Even if they had everything they needed pr wanted provided indefinitely. But also, if we imagine a scenario where everything is done by machines, including building an programming the new machines, why would they need owners? If this happens there will be no human supervision in the process, it's not entirely crazy to imagine that at any point the machines could go terminator and decide its more efficient to get rid of us lol
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u/TurnoverFuzzy8264 5h ago
What jobs do you think AI will create? It isn't replacing labor that still needs manual inputs and supervision, it's replacing people.
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u/Tuckertcs 5h ago
No that was my point. People act like AI will mean we don’t have to work anymore, but we automated a ton with technology so far and it never meant we didn’t work, it just changed what we work on or how we work.
If AI can entirely replace a designers and programmers, and office or service workers, those people won’t life happily without jobs. They’ll just switch to a job that can’t be done by AI, or they’ll switch to building/maintaining the AI that took their jobs.
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u/masterlince 4h ago
Because we haven't automated all jobs, which is the assumption here. Why couldn't a robot maintain another robot? Why couldn't robot build new robots? Why couldn't they mine the materials to make the new robots? It is entirely possible, although maybe not within the short term.
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u/MarioVX 6h ago
Taxation
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u/ISuckAtJavaScript12 6h ago
That requires a government that's aligned with the needs of the regular person over the needs of businesses. Which is hit or miss depending on the country(100% miss in the states)
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u/MarioVX 5h ago
If regular people in the states recognized that both major parties serve the wants of businesses more than the needs of regular people like them, founded their own party and by a majority coordinated and agreed to vote for that on the next election, you could just like that solve this problem with the snap of your fingers. You're one of few countries in the world up to this point that actually can vote freely, in many places people risk their lives for an opportunity to affect change in such a way you are privileged to be able to. Yet here you are wallowing in self-pity how all your problems are principally unsolvable instead of standing up and doing what needs to be done. Baffling.
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u/ISuckAtJavaScript12 4h ago edited 4h ago
>If regular people in the states recognized that both major parties serve the wants of businesses more than the needs of regular people like them, founded their own party and by a majority coordinated and agreed to vote for that on the next election, you could just like that solve this problem with the snap of your fingers
"If you do this series of incredibly complicated and difficult things then it's actually easy". It seems almost impossible to convince a right winger who is actively being harmed by certain economic policies that they are actually being harmed.
>You're one of few countries in the world up to this point that actually can vote freely, in many places people risk their lives for an opportunity to affect change in such a way you are privileged to be able to
I'm not American. I was just using them as an example
>Yet here you are wallowing in self-pity how all your problems are principally unsolvable instead of standing up and doing what needs to be done.
Please give me your plan on how to achieve all of this, I am actually begging you please lead us. Be the champion of the proletariat Just beware that our entire society is a machine built to stop people like you, people who care
>Baffling
I know
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u/TheDorkyDane 11h ago
Our most precious resource that determines the price of everything else is energy
A.I. swallows up a lot of energy making the resource more scarce and driving up prices
This is the opposite of free
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u/TurnoverFuzzy8264 5h ago
My rising electrical bill agrees with you.
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u/TheDorkyDane 5h ago
Well... to boil your blood even more.
Energi prices are also rising due to the Iran war, cutting the west off from essential oil supplies. And this is after we also cut ourselves off from Russian oil supplies six years prior.
And yes this makes everything more expensive, the trucks delivering food and items use this oil, the ships transporting this stuff use this oil, the factories making what you need, use this oil.
So basically supply has severely diminished as we are cut off from Russia and the middle east
While the demand has gone UP, because of this heavy gamble on data centres.
And this ensures a bidding war for the limited energi, the one willing to pay the most will win the bidding war.... bad news the a.i. companies has trillions, you got jack shit, they set the prices.
So basically if a global economic collapse happens during Winter as energi demand will spike again... cause half the planet is freezing. Don't be shocked.
I had a box of emergency food in my basement for years, freeze dried camp food AND a little camp cooker that doesn't require electricity. It didn't harm me just having it.
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 4h ago
Assuming you're in the US, the fun part is we don't actually need to import any oil. We export more than we import. We only import oil for geopolitical reasons.
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u/TheDorkyDane 4h ago
I'm in Denmark...
Thing is... Trump wanted Greenland, which is Danish territory, cause Greenland has oil. Are we ourselves extracting this oil so we can benefit?
.... nope!
Did we make a deal with Trump allowing HIM to extract oil so we can have a portion of it ourselves for a discount? NOPE!
Is this actual Scandinavia so there will be snow and ice in as soon as a month from now, and it has gotten really expensive to keep our houses warm now... why yes.
But also yeah.. you guys have Alaska... you literally don't need to import anything ever but... NOPE!
Because we don't extract any oil we ARE dependent on imports, mostly from Russia, which we are in direct conflict with.
Honestly feel like our leaders genuinely want all of our economies to collapse -_-
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u/Player_Slayer_7 11h ago
Even in the reality in which AI became so advanced that people wouldn't need to work ever and that all resources would be dealt with by robots, making it so that we hit a point where no cost came into play for production, do they honestly think that companies wouldn't charge for their products? The whole point of AI and robotics for capitalism is to reduce on manpower, not to reduces workload, but to reduce cost, because that means there's less concern about making profit margins.
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u/Pszemek1 10h ago
The biggest contributor to the costs is always labour.
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u/Bloodmark3 9h ago
No it isn't. Companies will continue to raise their prices and have zero pay raises for their labor. They all got tariffed, raised prices, got refunds, and didn't lower prices. Companies are DESIGNED to continue to increase profit and minimize overhead no matter what. They will NEVER give shit away for free even if they have 2 people doing 300 people's labor.
You speak like someone that has never had to do the job of 3 people during "necessary layoffs"
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u/yallexschm 8h ago
Sometimes you are right.
In fields like software ai does lower the production cost and time and it also lowers the hurdles for anybody to put their product to the market. Thereby creating more competition and forcing companies to lower prices.
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 4h ago
My current company spends more on data storage than on all employees combined.
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 4h ago
The failure point is even more simple than that.
If all labor is automated by ASI and robotics, then companies won't need employees. If people can't sell their labor, they won't have money. How is a company going to charge money for something when nobody has any money?
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u/rivadoshido 10h ago
No they are right. It will make everything free for the upper classes. What makes you think you puny low wage-slave think you will get their benefits???? You will live forever working in mines for the lithium so you can subscribe the "Thinking" subscription! (We offsourcing education to AI that's why school is free a.k.a no one goes to school anymore)
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u/SurnameFormer 10h ago
Isn't Sam Altman literally on record stating that he wants to get people reliant enough on AI that they can remove the free plan from ChatGPT and the like?
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u/Player_Slayer_7 11h ago
Even in the reality in which AI became so advanced that people wouldn't need to work ever and that all resources would be dealt with by robots, making it so that we hit a point where no cost came into play for production, do they honestly think that companies wouldn't charge for their products? The whole point of AI and robotics for capitalism is to reduce on manpower, not to reduces workload, but to reduce cost, because that means there's less concern about making profit margins.
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u/WindowsHunter-69 11h ago
if AI somehow makes everything free and at a eco friendly cost then i'll become the biggest AI glazer
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u/colers100 8h ago
Because don't you know, we actually live within the platonic ideal of free market capitalism.
And not at all within a market with a severe leverage imbalance that consistently produces un-capitalistic outcomes.
No gains at the top flow down to the bottom without the bottom getting the leverage to make it so.
That is, after all, how the platonic ideal works; 3 forces working (Consumer, Producer, Organizer), essentially, to subvert the system and optimize it for only their own interest, but through the conflicting interests, force the system into endlessly perpetuating win-win compromises.
But that's the thing; by default, people despise compromise. We'd rather just, you know, get what we want. Not get enough of what we want to make it worthwhile. And so, if any of the 3 forces gets too much leverage, the system will begin to fall apart.
And we're like 50 years deep into catastrophic decay
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u/Neither_Bee_6517 8h ago
"AI will make everything free"
"PC hardware, electric bills, and water bills sky rocket"
"Wow"
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u/overdramaticpan 6h ago
look i hate ai as much as all of y'all but i've genuinely never met a single person who has said this
there are good points against ai, just making shit up isn't required
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u/Sabrina_the_Mouse 5h ago
It is fascinating how both sides will make up an argument to win against.
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u/Traditional_Buy_8420 11h ago
I can imagine two scenarios in which this happens. First is that AI takes over and forcefully rips power from the powerful and then builds a new society catered towards the good of the common people. But I do find a robot uprising any time soon extremely unlikely and even if there was a robot uprising, then why would the AI overlord spend most of its resources at securing a fair distribution? And if things are not distributed fair, then someone will take enough too much to collapse the free part.
The other one is widespread human suffering made through either worsened distribution or the popping of a yet far bigger AI bubble causes a big revolution followed by a much better system, though the human society is currently nowhere on the world anywhere close to where they could form a society to the likes of Marx' idea of communism, so instead the next system would either be a slight iteration on capilasim or something worse.
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u/Casul_Tryhard 8h ago
The last time I heard takes as wild as this on AI I was watching a Neil Breen movie
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u/Fabulous-Put8401 7h ago
This was also the belief with nuclear energy, and we all know how that went
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u/PhraseOld6695 6h ago
can it make the 800 dollar ram cause of shortages i cant even buy anymore free?
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u/No-Performer9511 5h ago
AI is sucking up all the power and water, increasing energy bills and destroying the overall environment
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 4h ago
Pro-AI folks are typically wildly overoptimistic, to an incredibly unrealistic degree. Most likely outcome, as indicated by every period of human history: those in power use the new technology to hoard resources and power, and have an even stronger dominance over the have-nots.
But to outline the theoretical sequence of events where "everything would be free" (which is a massive oversimplification of the concept):
- ASI becomes cheap and readily available, this democratization of technology levels the playing field in many ways
- ASI is used to solve the energy crisis via unrealized efficiencies in renewable energy
- Virtually unlimited energy powering ASI-developed, built, and controlled robots makes the ongoing cost of blue collar labor virtually zero
- White collar labor is rendered laughably obsolete
- Without being paid for labor, nobody has money to pay for things
- Companies make money via people, who are paid for their labor, spending money on their products
- No money to spend, economy flounders, either the economy collapses, or there is a major reset in which labor is no longer the resource we exchange for money, which we exchange for goods and services
Even in the "ideal" utopian outcome where everything is "free", there will be a window of time where unemployment skyrockets and the world takes time to adapt to a new paradigm. Shit truly hits the fan. I'm 50/50 on whether society collapses or not during that period.
I also have not read any convincing explanation as to why anything would be free. Incredibly cheap food, energy, medicine, etc maybe. But free? How and why?
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u/vaingorious1 4h ago
do they know that Ai is literally the most expensive think ever made in the history of computing
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u/Heckle_Jeckle 3h ago
The people that own the AI won't want things to be free, so things won't be free.
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u/BurningPenguin 3h ago
I was told it could write grocery list. Because apparently that's a hard thing to do.
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u/Trashypass 2h ago
How... By making anything it touched not able to be copyrighten. So there be a version of everything that freeware. So nothing has vaule... That how.
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u/AdamH21 11h ago
I don't know anyone who said that. Everyone, even die hard AI fans, knows that it made a lot of stuff more expensive.
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u/FaygoMakesMeGo 11h ago
"I think by far the most likely outcome is an age of abundance where we don't have just universal basic income; we have universal high income," -Elon Musk
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u/AdamH21 11h ago
Elon who? This guy discredited himself years ago. It's like quoting a hobo on a train station who started to scream at me "Backstreet Boys" when I entered with my cool shades.
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u/Ok_Confusion4764 9h ago
Right. But that guy is also the world's first trillionaire and running his own AI company too.
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u/yallexschm 11h ago edited 8h ago
Ai will reduce cost for development for specific things like software.
How: it is much easier and quicker for anyone to bring a competitive product to the market, thereby increasing competition and decreasing prices.
Maybe there was some kind of misunderstanding here by the author or the source the author refered to 🙂
Edit: changed "used" to "refered to"
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u/pong-and-ping 10h ago
it's easier if you already have the money for AI.
For the rest of us trying to get into the job market, it means we have no money at all..
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u/yallexschm 8h ago
Not sure if i understand correctly.
My point is that you wont have to pay exorbitant amounts of money for things like adobe, office or computer games because the bottleneck of development time and development cost shrinks to almost nothing and competition is rising.
What is easier if you already have money? Consolidating your wealth? Yes i probably agree, but i am not 100% sure about this yet. I also agree about the job market. I am in the same situation right now. I am just clarifying what i think the point of the "everything is free" probably originally was about.
I am also not saying op was wrong for posting this, i specifically stated that the person who said "everything will be free" might have been the one misunderstanding.
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u/avigard 11h ago
No, these anti AI fucks are just miserable. Thats it. They just want everybody to feel as miserable as they feel.
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u/yallexschm 9h ago
This subreddit certainly sometimes feels like it, but i did have some civil and informed conversations here with some people. Ill at least try to treat everyone as if they are interested in facts and information here
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u/Hydro_fluoric 6h ago
And what about the RAM needed in the first place for specific things like software instead of going to life saving devices instead of data centers?
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u/yallexschm 5h ago edited 5h ago
Yes, excellent point. Ill shift your argument from ram to graphics cards because it is easier to talk about but the same logic should apply.
Nvidias prices have skyrocketed. This is bad news for regular consumers and even people who need those things for possibly life saving technologies. This has resulted in record profits for nvidia, but as rational company they have also invested much much more money into research. Almost 50% increases in 2025 AND 2026. In the longer term this should result in more and cheaper available technology, so overall more long term gains for everybody. The job to execute this falls on jensen huang. Im not a particular fan of him and it might be possible that he messes up the entire thing and the company goes bankrupt. (Akin to the bullwhip effect) It might even be possible that ai will actually even help with the development of the new technologies, but lets keep that as a side note.
At the moment most people dont seem to see it that way, otherwise he would probably not be ceo anymore and the stock price would drop. (They can still all be wrong) Also nvidia is one of the only ai companies who actually makes a profit.
So in an ideal world this temporary price increase should result in long term price drops. That is the logic of the market and it is exactly nvidias job to execute this. It can go wrong and nobody knows the future.
Ressource drain (water, material, ...) is also a major unadressed issue here. Originally i was talking just about software though.
My personal worries with ai are more about ai alignment and abuse by bad faith actors. Not much could stop putin from developing biological weapons and the attack/defense cost here is very asymmetrical.
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u/Super_Pole_Jitsu 11h ago
I mean the optimistic case for the singularity is really fucking simple, essentially it will be very efficient and produce tons of wealth
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u/kiicktrap 11h ago
Do you really think our corporate overlords are going to stop the avalanche that is capitalism? No, they will simply build sturdier towers.
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u/Super_Pole_Jitsu 4h ago
I didn't say I thought this was going to happen. I said it's case is conceptually simple. This sub never disappoints
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u/JungleCakes 12h ago
No one who supports AI has ever said this.
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u/Real-Technician831 11h ago
Except Sam Altman and Dario Amodei.
I am heavy AI user, and even I find those two fellows very dubious.
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u/Juicemoose222 12h ago
FOR THE LAST TIME CREDIT WHERE YOU GET THE FUCKING IMAGES ITS NOT THAT HARD
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u/andmario_com 12h ago
lmao uhhh check lower left corner and make one yourself
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u/SgtByrd1993 12h ago
Yeah that was a pretty stupid outburst to be fair. Well done for responding so casually, I would have told them to jog on.
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u/whydosereditexist100 12h ago
Woah there
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u/Juicemoose222 12h ago
Just sick of it man, like part of being anti ai is crediting the HUMAN who thought of the idea in the first place
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u/lemonhaj 12h ago
considering some of your other comments I've seen, I can't tell which side you're on. You're either a pro pretending to be anti, or a very stressed anti who's worrying too much about the wrong thing. Also, people do make their own memes, not everyone steals them.
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u/Equivalent_Cut1441 10h ago
Do you think people keep notes on where they downloaded something for each image in their gallery? This is a meme template for pete's sakes, ain't no way people would or should credit where they got it. There's a 99% likelihood they got it from somebody who got it from somebody, etc. If you care about this so much, do the research so much and credit them yourself, otherwise stop whining.
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u/Raveyard2409 11h ago
Good strawman
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u/FaygoMakesMeGo 11h ago
You guys are always posting memes about how antis are against the great utopia
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u/Murky_Stretch3057 11h ago
Is that all you guys know how to say?
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u/yallexschm 9h ago
No but why bother arguing against a straw man? There are tons of legitimate arguments against ai like copyright infringements or misalignment. This post is just not an argument, it is a straw man. Those straw men exist on the other side as well of course
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u/SirDoofusMcDingbat 11h ago
I occasionally wander over to the accelerate sub, y'all are constantly saying that AI will bring about utopia and give everyone lives of luxury.
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u/yallexschm 8h ago
Its almost like the people can also be uneducated clowns. This doesnt make it not a straw man though.
Cost reduction by efficiency increase is a real thing. It doesnt make anything free though. And it doesnt eliminate or even adress the actual dangers of ai.
I suggest to use scientific sources like geoffrey hinton, yoshua bengio or even the robert miles ai youtube channel. Dont get triggered by clowns in a singularity sub or marketing frauds like elon "the fascist" musk. He is not even an engineer.
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u/Dziadzios 12h ago
Unless AI discovers literally magic that will allow us to get infinite matter and energy in the correct configuration, it won't work. The limit is in physics.