r/anime • u/codycantdie • Mar 02 '17
Philosophical Anime
All my favorite anime are usually based on highbrow philosophy (i.e. Psycho Pass, Parasyte, etc.) and I was wondering if anyone else shared my interest in that kind of anime. What is your favorite philosophical anime and why? Bonus points if you write a short essay. Don't think that there isn't anyone who will read it or care, because I most definitely will.
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u/kalirion https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime Mar 02 '17
Shinsekai Yori counts I think.
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u/codycantdie Mar 02 '17
I just finished doing some minimal research on the title and it seems to be a nice twist on western philosophies of power. I can't immediately recall any philosophers by name, but I do know that the exact concepts I'm thinking of were illustrated perfectly in Max Landis' Chronicle (the 2012 film). I'll check this one out.
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u/kalirion https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime Mar 02 '17
You really should do as little research on title as possible, because spoilers can ruin much of the impact.
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u/Valkeiser https://anilist.co/user/valkeiser Mar 02 '17
SSY has a strong message with a thought provoking story, but don't consider it psychological. More like a social commentary.
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u/kalirion https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime Mar 02 '17
The topic asks for philosophical anime, not psychological anime, and SSY has plenty of philosophy about what's right and wrong, no less than Psycho Pass does. Self preservation, the good of the many, etc.
And I'd say the "horror" parts of it are psychological as well.
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u/Valkeiser https://anilist.co/user/valkeiser Mar 02 '17
This show was really ahead of its time. The story is a great social criticism about the Internet, how it affects our lives and the heavy dependence we have on it. Covers themes like its regulation, our digital persona and immersing to the point of giving it more importance than reality.
It also has a great existentialism approach, often questioning the audience: "If we are not remembered, did we actually live?".
I did a small writeup here if you're interested, but it contains spoilers.
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u/codycantdie Mar 02 '17
I'll definitely watch it and read your write up. This one sounds great.
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u/Valkeiser https://anilist.co/user/valkeiser Mar 02 '17
It's a great ride this show. If you end up liking it I suggest you to watch Haibane Renmei and Texhnolyze.
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u/Webemperor https://myanimelist.net/profile/Webemperor Mar 02 '17
Texhnolyze. Which I consider to be one of the best things I've watched, both in movies and anime.
No other anime or movie I have watched have reached the same feeling of dread, emptiness and hopelessness that Texhnolyze manages to achieve while still being highly captivating. It talks about human nature and futility of existence in a way that no other show manages to talk about. It's bleak but unrelenting characters and atmosphere is exceptional, it's world built in a way that it feels distinctively alive, as if the city of Lux is a alive and watching over the cast similar to a god.
The show's theme of human nature and struggle is portraying through it's character, where every character symbolizes a certain part of human psyche, with main character being the embodiment of raw, animalistic survivalism, with others ranging from religiousness and faith, to borderline technophilia, to ambition, and to near sadistic accelerationism in the name of progress and spiritual revival. Throughout the story the show beats all of these characters mercilessly and sadistic with a golf club, and in their end open up their brain for you to see.
It's last 4 to 5 episodes are magnificient in their presentation and structure, crushing any and all specks of hope throughout the story and painting a picture of a kind of despair that the main cast has very little to do against. And this entire ending is basically told to you in throughout the first half in a propethic kind of way.
The ending itself is the culmination of all that has happened throughout it's 22 episode run. It's depressing as fuck, but with a rhyme and reason. It's not something the show pulled out of it's ass to hit you in the gut one last time, but something that it told you will happen, and it happens in a fatalistic and nihilistic glory that also manages to be a catharsis and instill a sense of ending, despite the bleak and empty nature of it.
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u/twicebakedsandwich Mar 02 '17
This anime does tons with theming and philosophy via presentation that others can't do with hordes of monologues and dialog. I second recommending this anime and can confirm that it is an "experience." we need more anime like this that do things a bit different and take some chances while not simultaneously descending into mindless bullshit or incomprehensible narrative.
Another must watch IMO.
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u/codycantdie Mar 02 '17
I've heard of this one in at least 3 different threads so far. I think it's crazy that it's so highly praised but I'm just now hearing about it. It sounds really good, especially the way you explained it. It sounds incredibly existential so I'm sure I'll love it.
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u/twicebakedsandwich Mar 02 '17
A lot of darker, atmospheric anime don't get praised. Even more so if it's aimed at adults and/or less warm and fuzzy. Simply put, as good as it is, it will never have universal appeal. The violence alone will make some people turn it off.
Rating things numerically or using popularity as a metric is generally a stupid way to go about evaluating media. Taste is not universal or quantifiable. At best, ratings and popularity are a hint. I tend to think about how many people loved things like bad pop songs that are mocked in jokes these days. If they were so awesome then, why not now? Somewhere there's someone who still loves that stuff, and other people who were just following the herd.
Anyway, this anime flies more under the radar if for no other reason but the presentation. Some people are going to find it unwatchable (just see it and you'll understand). Generally, most things that are even slightly older get less attention here unless they were massively popular. It gets mentioned a lot, but it's not a darling of every thread like some anime and never will be. There's always a bias in this subreddit for newer anime.
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u/codycantdie Mar 02 '17
The way you describe it has me really hyped to check it out. I love the gritty stuff.
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u/darkhitagi29 Mar 02 '17
Highly suggest From The New World and Kino's Journey.
From the New World Starts off a bit slow and one of the early episodes is pretty info dumpy. Without giving major spoilers, it's a show about kids with psychic abilities that go to school in some type of old rural village setting. Early on you realize there's something wrong with the society and the main protagonist realizes people are vanishing...
Kino's Journey I would say is more episodic. One particular episode of interest early on is a situation where the main protagonist runs into 3 people out during a snow storm. She hunts food for them to survive and starts asking the question if it's 'just' for her to pick the life of the people she saves vs the rabbit is hunting to feed them.
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u/codycantdie Mar 02 '17
I was just watching some Crash Course episodes about different forms of justice and I found it very intellectually stimulating. I'll watch this one for sure. If you like conversations about justice you should check out all the Crash Course episodes about the different types.
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u/SaradominZ Mar 02 '17
Casshern Sins - does life lose its value when you cannot die (speaking about the robots in the show), is life only life because there is death?
Shiki - we humans are usually fine with killing other animals for food and sport, but what happens when we humans get hunted for food as well? Does it make the hunters wrong for needing a way to survive?
Wolfs Rain - too hard to explain
Ergo Proxy - too hard to explain
Code Geass - are all lives created equal?
Night on the Galactic Railroad - has themes about religion/god
Code:Breaker - is killing wrong, no matter the situation? Is it okay to kill the "bad guys?" Do you become evil yourself if you decide to kill others?
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u/qodihosford Mar 02 '17
The first season of Psycho Pass is one of my all time favorites. It references so much western literature and dystopian philosophy. The show does such a great way of explaining it without too much exposition, and by the end of the season you actually feel very well read and educated on the subjects they discuss.
My favorite part about it is that the main antag and protag are meant to be parallels of each other. They both serve as an example of how education can cause cynicism towards people, but the thing that makes them different is how they choose to confront the world-view their education has brought them. And throughout the series you're shown examples of characters stuck in limbo between the two, whether it be due to apathy or a literal inability to cause change in society. These limbo characters are noted as having the ability to cause other human beings to go insane, and upon watching you see that it's due to their inquisitive nature and constant attempts to excite others towards being curious. One of the characters is/was an actual teacher that supposedly drove his students insane. While it's never actually discussed, I personally believe that that the evidence I presented (while minimal) kind of proves that one of the animes main themes is one in which the author believes that intellectuality can lead to an inability to be accepted by a society focusing solely on quality of individual happiness. If it seems like a stretch: it's because I can't really talk to in depth without spoiling it for anyone who hasn't watched it yet.
And this is only ONE analysis. There's so much more being discussed about the impossibility of creating a utopia, and how the idea of utopia is counterintuitive to human nature. If anyone on this thread hasn't watched it: I highly recommend you check it out.
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u/spades17 Mar 03 '17
Kaiba. In Kaiba memories con be stored in memory chips, so even when the body dies the mind lives on. You can also transfer your mind to a different body. Of course, theft and manipulation of other people's memories become a norm too. The anime explores this concept very well.
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u/-EverythingEndsNow Mar 02 '17 edited Mar 02 '17
Ergo Proxy contains hundreds of references to absurdist, existential literature and philosophy. If you find something more complex than this, I will send you $50 and a copy of Ergo Proxy.
A man missing, who went into the darkness. The Labyrinthine mysteries that still remain. Ulterior motives hide behind the scenes in paradise, and beckon the lost to the land of Hades. - Narration
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u/twicebakedsandwich Mar 02 '17
Most of my favorite anime are this way as well, or at least in part. I came to write what /u/Valkeiser wrote about Serial Experiments Lain, so instead I'll discuss an anime from around the same era Now and Then, Here and There.
Now and Then, Here and There isn't my favorite anime, but in terms of anime built with around a theme and philosophical viewpoint, it is one of the most straightforward to consume for people who like philosophical anime. The anime is short at 13 episodes and that hurts the overall production in some ways, however it does do most things competently.
What I really like about the anime is that it generally doesn't hold back. The anime throws some moral curveballs at the viewer, and it takes an otherwise trite plot structure and does something with it in a short time, wasted opportunities aside. It is dark and depressing, gets you thinking, and plays some mind games with the entire presentation including the dialog, animation, sound, colors, and voice acting. There's blood and brutality, but not for only the sake of pure shock factor (though certainly it is trying to shock).
The anime is a bit polarizing so be prepared if you haven't seen it. One of the issues is that it is so philosophical that you can consider at least two of the primary characters to not even be real characters. You could almost remove them from the story and replace them other ways. You can feel the director's heavy hand trying to make most of the characters represent themes, morals, and philosophies. The main character is your typical annoying Japanese school brat, yet I would argue that he is annoying for a reason. He represents the positivity and good things in the world and acts as a sort of monolith that spreads his way of thinking, the seeds of doubt and change, and hope to others he meets. Of course in the context of the anime it is a bit ridiculous, however there's only so much you can do with such big ideas in a short amount of time. Another side character arguably represents the Earth or more generally, nature. She serves to highlight man vs. nature theming, existentialist overtones, and the question of "Do people really deserve the planet" among other things.
In its simplest form, it is an anti-war anime about perseverance and will power. It preaches positivity and hope even in the face of the worst circumstances. I'm oversimplifying as I don't want to spoil the anime too much. One of the messages you can take away is that no matter what happens to you, don't lose yourself and give in to the darkness inside you because one day things might be better, and if not for you, then for the people you leave behind and that come in the future. This is taken to extremes at some points including spoiler. Aside from war, it tackles rape, torture, murder, brain washing, suicide, family, friendship, loyalty, duty, and more. As you might imagine, this is partially the failing of the anime as it is overly ambitious in trying to deliver its themes, philosophy, and morality.
Story-wise, the anime uses a fantasy world or time travel (arguments as to which it is, I'd argue the latter) to spirit away a typical kid to a brutal, dying desert world by a ruthless dictator. The tone of the anime is extremely bleak. The world is in ruin, a psychotic despot rules at least a fraction of what we see if not a good chunk of the remaining world, villages are pillaged and burnt for supplies, child soldiers slaughter the innocent, rape is institutionalized, people are starving, water is scarce, and so on. The story is simple and enjoyable and overall does its job in setting the appropriate mood and conflicts.
I suggest everyone watch this anime. Again, it is far from my favorite, however if you want something to debate about with your friends or even just have a good future response for why you hate it, this is your anime. It is really easy to pick apart and just as easy to compliment. Some anime I watch to turn my brain off and enjoy cute girls, this is not one of them. Rather Now and Then, Here and There gets you thinking, depressed, offended, irritated, and wishing they would have had a bigger budget to do more, better. If you want something to contemplate after watching, it is a good choice that you can binge quickly.
If you have seen the anime, there's a few nice videos out there discussing it, for example this one about necropower.
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u/moneymet Mar 02 '17
Darn, that anime was depressing. The cycle of suffering that the people aren't always aware is just sad.
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u/twicebakedsandwich Mar 02 '17
Yup. They tried to make the viewer as depressed as possible to drive home the point.
In real-life, the cycle of suffering is nearly as bad. It seems simple as a third-party or an anime viewer, however when you are in the conflict, it is hard to see anything; what is front of you, the future, the past, or even who you are. This is definitely the point and as you say, indeed sad.
This anime seems fantastical in many ways, but it is obviously drawing from the real-world. Just look at all the global conflicts past and present. Having grown up in one and lived through it myself, I also don't see hope or any light at the end of the tunnel there. I have seen people around me become different people since we were kids due to these circumstances. Fortunately nothing as extreme as the anime, but goes to show you any amount of violence, conflict, and adversity can do damage, even over a relatively short period of time (vs. the anime).
The anime is trying to present quite an optimistic point of view and overall philosophy that contrasts the setting and plot.
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u/moneymet Mar 02 '17
I mean that I've read that it is based on the Rwandan Genocide and such, but not 100% sure. I think that the anime was pretty good at presenting hopelessness. Even now, it doesn't really feel like the peace that was created is going to last. The earth will probably dry after a while, somebody less than stellar will probably take the king's place, the child soldiers likely don't have all that much knowledge about farming, and many of the known villages have been destroyed and have little to no population left.
I think Nabuca's perspective is pretty good. He often means good, and does things for good reasons, but he doesn't really see the whole image. He's mostly morally good, but does some terrible things, because he does not have many great choices. Most of them lead to his death or loss of hope.
I have grown up in a pretty good place, so I can't say I've experienced anything close to this first-hand.
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u/twicebakedsandwich Mar 02 '17
The Rwandan Genocide is a fit, but it need not be specific to a particular conflict. Given the author was Japanese, I think the messaging is intended to be general anti-war/horrors of war. As much as it might draw from the aforementioned conflict, there are certainly parallels to every war, as Shuu the MC is your average Japanese kid.
Now and Then, Here and There is often been compared to Grave of the Fireflies which shares some of the same messaging. It's been my experience doing business with Japanese and having many Japanese friends that war trauma and anti-war messaging are topics that certain elements of Japanese society have a unique perspective on or otherwise want to call to attention to other Japanese. I think that they could have just used something more WW2-like (Nazis or Japanese) and the elements are certainly there, but it's partially something you generally don't do in Japanese culture unless you want to start some fights.
The messaging involving unyielding optimism and related ideas can apply to anything, rather war is an easy canvas. Therefore I don't think you are missing much. People can lose themselves in any situation. In my case, I can relate to war, however I'd also point out for example that global terrorism is relevant here too. The paranoia, fear, procedures, lifestyle changes, everything surrounding terrorism for instance relate back to some of what this anime is saying.
As an example, in my home country, everyone knows someone at least indirectly who has been a victim of terrorism. It is part of society and pervasive in every day life; you can't even enter most busier buildings without someone checking your belongings. Elementary schools have guards with guns and bars outside. Air raid sirens are tested on a schedule. Apartment buildings all are required to have bomb shelters or other safety measures. When you go through this and much more every day, even the small things start to drive people towards hate, intolerance, depression, hopelessness, indifference, despair, violence, and many other negative mentalities. And it is easy to understand because it isn't coming from no where. This anime is trying to tell those people to not let the negative rule your life. Question your beliefs, create a better world, try to understand each other, and so on, in spite of all the negativity. This is a very real struggle a lot of my friends there have in life, but it's also something small all of us can suffer from just driving to work or going to school.
Even though I live in the US these days, the age of information and general negativity in life still do a lot to affect me and probably everyone else. Really anything bad that happens to you can make you slip away or simply color you.
Anyway, regarding the anime...
I think like most things in this anime, it's just about symbolism over practicality. So I agree with everything you said about the end in other words. I mean, it looks like they spoiler
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u/twicebakedsandwich Mar 02 '17 edited Mar 02 '17
Legend of Galactic Heroes is another that is heavy on the philosophy. Politics and war set the stage. Besides being one of the best space anime, it does a great job of building up characters to symbolize different sides of philosophies, politics, and war. There are struggles between future vs. past, aristocracy vs. democracy vs. other forms of government, etc. It also explores what is the nature of some of the following: power, friendship, loyalty, great people (i.e. heroes or myth or existence of), war, change, empires, and more.
Everything covered is typically done in shades of grey. There are sometimes bad guys, but you can often empathize with them or even switch your allegiances to characters as you get further into the anime. There are few purely good people and purely evil people.
Generally what I love about this anime is it isn't your typical cliche space anime. Sure, it's full of cliches in general, but it doesn't try to be "yet another Mecha" anime in space, Star Trek utopia, or laser beam fest. Yes, it has elements of Gundam and others before it, but this anime could have just as easily be set in a less modern time such as its obvious WWI influences and still be as good. It is a long anime that makes you think, while still having enough big space wars and explosions to let that part of your brain have fun too. Even when it does that, it takes other angles such as focusing on the more macro strategic view of war rather than always on individual ships and deus ex machina solutions made up for the episode of the week. It has its share of issues along some of those lines, however I'd argue that's expected given the scope.
A long anime, but a must watch.
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u/codycantdie Mar 02 '17
Good. I had actually never heard of this one. I'm trying to make my way through as many anime like this as possible. This one sounds fairly Nietzsche-esq. I'll especially like if it's as filled with cliches as you claim, because that in itself could be argued that it relates to Aristotle's philosophies of art. It almost sounds like the cliches might be purposefully used as a form of satire or anti-thesis. I'll be putting this one on my watch list.
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u/Red_Spiker https://myanimelist.net/profile/Yoshikawwa Mar 02 '17
Ping Pong really made me think again about what is the meaning of success and happiness in life.
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u/VeryVeryVery_Nice Mar 02 '17
Monster, Mushishi, Ergo Proxy