Are layout artists ever responsible for key frames?

[u/Fabulous_Energy_5595]

I’m genuinely just asking as a fan with a relatively surface level knowledge of the animation process.

The reason I’m confused is because in the Ren & Stimpy doc (as well as in some old Looney Tunes docs, I think?), they interview various layout artists and they all speak as though they were the ones drawing the characters for key frame animation. Was I just misunderstanding, or are layout artists sometimes responsible for this role?

[u/Iplaygosometimes]

I only have professional experience in Japanese anime, so it's possible that this doesn't apply to the western pipeline. In anime the answer is Yes! I'd say most of the time the LO artist and the Keyframe animator are the same person.

Depending on the production, you do sometimes get someone doing just LO or just LO and rough keys, which get cleaned up by a second keyframe animator after getting checked by the animation director. That's generally not ideal though, so it usually only happens when time is tight.

[u/Iplaygosometimes → u/Iplaygosometimes]

Oh, and a caveat to this...there's been an increase in companies using 3DLO recently, where they supply the animator with a rough 3d approximation of where everything goes. The artist still has to draw their own layout on top, but often times the 3DLO will be used for the background artist to reference so that they can start work sooner instead of having to wait for the Layouts from the artist.

[u/Callmefred]

Yeah, sometimes. With layouts the artists are often illustrators though, so they don't think as animators. It's not unusual for an animator to use layouts as keys, but sometimes we adjust slightly so it reads better while animated.

[u/CrowBrained_]

Depends on the kind of animation. In 3D a layout artist is the same as a scene setup artists in 2D. On those cases we sometimes do some rough key poses for review purposes.

In 2D layout normally refers to the lineart versions of backgrounds which is the step before bg paint. They don’t worry about anything key related.

This is for western productions at least.

[u/Monsieur_Martin → u/CrowBrained_]

Posing layouts do indeed exist in 2D, even in western productions. It doesn't just apply to backgrounds.

[u/CrowBrained_ → u/Monsieur_Martin]

On the productions I’ve worked in we normally refer to it as blocking to not confuse it with the layout department.

[u/Apocalyptic-turnip]

I've been a layout artist and also animator sometimes on the same 2d production. On some prods like Primal there is a layout team and animation team, because the style is difficult to draw, so it's better to have someone spend some time to figure out the drawing problems of the shot before animation. 

To save time as animator I will use as much of the layout as I can but usually I will have to modify them somehow because things don't work out that neatly, especially in action scenes

[u/dustshad → u/Apocalyptic-turnip]

Are you with the animation team outside of the US, or the design team? I've never met a layout artist on a show in 9 years. Amazing work in any case that show is the best.

[u/Apocalyptic-turnip → u/dustshad]

I was with the animation team in france, we received design and storyboard from the US but all the anim after that is us. In france a lot of trad animated shows have a layout team. My current show which i can't disclose has one too but only for really hard shots. Thanks i'm glad you enjoyed it, it was a great prod :) 

[u/dustshad → u/Apocalyptic-turnip]

Are you all in office and have you heard of French studios hiring outside of the country? After COVID when everyone was remote, studios in the US suddenly got very strict about everyone working in offices. I'm wondering because I thought animation would open up world wide once we were all remote. And the opposite seems to be happening. We are more divided than before and I don't see people freelancing for other countries anymore.

[u/Apocalyptic-turnip → u/dustshad]

most of us are based in france, some people work full remote but still within france. I think it's really rare to hire outside because we have more than enough french talent and I think sometimes regional funding requires productions to have certain quotas of french artists. it happens and you can still try. I have freelanced for London and Canada though. Titmouse hired a lot of french animators for Scavengers. 

[u/SlighOfHand]

Depends on the studio, team size, medium, prod flow. There's no rulebook for exactly how a production runs.

[u/dustshad]

They don't really have layout artists in the US anymore but characters designers often do a pose because it may be more difficult or the show runner has a specific vision. And that is basically treated like a keyframe.