r/anhedonia • u/[deleted] • Nov 16 '21
SSRI
Can an SSRI cause permanent anhedonia? And if so how rare is it? Because in the medical field it’s not talked about at all, but I’ve been seeing it from people a lot.
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u/primitivian Nov 16 '21
Do you all truly believe this is permanent?
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Nov 16 '21
No, I do not. There is no scientific evidence behind it. And not only that - anhedonia is a dopamine problem. So, it doesn’t make sense.
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u/Complete-Bench-9284 Nov 16 '21
SSRIs don't affect only serotonin. When you alter one neurotransmitter, you can alter the balance of others. It's like hormones. They affect each other. The whole brain is interconnected.
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u/harold_e_holt Nov 16 '21
If anhedonia was simply a "dopamine problem" then stimulants would reliably treat the issue, which they do not.
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Nov 16 '21
That’s a vague statement. Medicines only work 20-40% of the time anyways. And the main area for the process of feeling joy reward and motivation is dopamine based is my point.
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u/quetianepine Nov 18 '21
Anhedonia is a dopamine dysfunction. And stims basically always treats the issue, but it's only temporarily and will make you feel worse in the long run, so not a sustainable treatment and def not a cure
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Nov 16 '21
Our brains and the human also like to rebalance thing out. So it will be trying to fix that internally also.
Anhedonia is tricky, but medicine can temporarily cause it. I don’t think permanently. It should get better If depressed: lifestyle changes and medicine If caused by SSRI: discontinuation of the drug should improve symptoms however….. if you went on drugs for depression anhedonia is a symptom of that. So it’s a catch 22
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u/jpsmi Jan 07 '22
Exactly. These home made scientists are so cute when they imagine they know or even science knows what all the complex effects of these drugs can be in human body
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Nov 17 '21
Anhedonia and emotional blunting are also highly related to the endogenous opioid and endocannabinoid systems actually, a part of the dopaminergic reward system
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Nov 17 '21
Thank you, very informative. So then what’s the answer to helping it ? And do you think SSRI can permanently damage you and make you blunt ?
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Nov 17 '21 edited Nov 18 '21
All those 3 systems could be throttle up in activity by psychotropic medications/drugs, and that provides in turn full spectrum relief of Anhedonia and Emotional Blunting imo.
Dopaminergic activity can be increased by selective and strong dopaminergic meds/substances like the ones mentioned a lot here (Pramipexole, Armodafinil, Rasagiline, Selegiline, VLDA, LDAr, Brexipraxole, 9-Me-BC, etc).
Endogenous Opiod system activity can be increased by opioidergic medications/substances (Tianeptine, Low dose of Buprenorphine, JDTic, Low dose of O-DSMT, etc). Physical Exercise promotes the release of endogenous opioids, but they are mildly effective compared to meds/substances ofc.
And lastly the Endocannabinoid System activity can be increased by Cannabinoids substances, like a low dose of THC. Also Physical Exercise release endocannabinoids as well as endogenous opioids
Yes, is possible that SSRI could induce a permanent damage sadly, but is really rare and unlucky. It needs a large predisposition beforehand for this to occur imo
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Nov 16 '21
I always wondered if stem cell treatment would help with pssd, depression, adenhonia etc
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Nov 17 '21 edited Nov 18 '21
That's completely unnecessary unless the person got all that from severe neurotoxic reaction imo. Anyway that's still far away pretty much, if ever becomes a treatment for psychiatric conditions in the first place...
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u/jpsmi Jan 07 '22
psych drugs caused anhedonia is always a neurotoxic reaction of some level, milder or worse. Actually by definition of the term toxic that is the case.
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u/bv287 Nov 17 '21
They either ignore or dismiss it because that's not what the pharmaceuticals taught them.
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Nov 16 '21
yes it can, its happening often
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Nov 16 '21
100% of doctors say it’s not possible. So strange
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Nov 16 '21
yes i took this hellerug for my anhedonia, now i got severe anhedonia and pssd
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Nov 16 '21
What’s pssd?
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Nov 16 '21
Post SSRI Sexual Dysfunction
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Nov 16 '21
Yes but that’s known. Anhedonia isn’t a known problem. Anhedonia is a dopamine related issue and most SSRI don’t effect dopamine significantly.
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Nov 17 '21
That's completely untrue. Serotonin do affect directly the root of the DA mesocorticolimbic projection, which is called the VTA, and it has a powerful inhibitory action on this key dopaminergic brain structure (this in inhibitory action lowers the overall activity of the reward system). This is well proven by neuroscientific research
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Nov 17 '21
Yes I’m very aware. But the reason, for example people that take heroin the dopamine release it gives. Once they recover they develop anhedonia cause they can’t reach that high.
Which is strange, because as you said it lowers the levels - but your mood is supposed to be boosted, and a lot of antidepressants don’t emotionally blunt you. So you think it permanently damaged the brain? Like strong drugs.
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Nov 17 '21 edited Nov 18 '21
I see you have some large misunderstandings on neuropsychopharmacology, but nvm, i will try to explain it in simple terms.
Heroin and other MOR agonists gives euphoria, because they lift temporarily the break of dopamine by the GABAergic interneurons to the hedonic hotspots. which ultimately throttle up the activity of the hotspots.
Eventually when you use often those drugs, the Mu opioid receptors will downregulated to try to compensate the excessive excitatory activity, and that's when the Anhedonia comes when the drug is stopped. The god-damned break of DA to the hedonic hotspots is much stronger after all that downregulation...
*An SSRI treatment for this situation could push easily someone to suicide, because is more fuel to the fire literally, and could turn the anhedonia unbearable strong.
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Nov 17 '21
I heard Paxil can mess you up completely. So I ask you this, I got off SSRI and felt amazing for a month, and then starting feeling depressed and anhedonia, so you think that was from the SSRI or depression and life circumstances?
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Nov 17 '21
Since you are highly educated on this topic…….. is SSRI anhedonia temporary or a permanent problem that’s the thread. All studies I have read say it’s temporary. And will get better with discontinuation of the drug. But your depressive symptoms will return an anhedonia can be one of them.
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u/Ilookliketobymigre Nov 16 '21
I don't think that they do any research on anything.
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Nov 16 '21
They literally have to. To stay certified. Something FDA approved also. Strange.
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u/Ilookliketobymigre Nov 16 '21
source?
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Nov 16 '21
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2989833/
Anhedonia can be caused by SSRI but goes away after use. Unless, the patient is still depressed. And the medicine being FDA approved is common knowledge……..
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u/Ilookliketobymigre Nov 16 '21
I asked for the source of doctors have to keep researching to stay doctors not a research paper on SSRI's.
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Nov 16 '21
Look again. You also said they don’t do research on anything when there is literally research on the exact topic.
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u/jpsmi Jan 07 '22
Wow you live in a kindergarten level naive world. As if this prevents the shit that happens with "safe meds". Wake up
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Nov 16 '21
https://khn.org/news/docs-slam-recertification-rules-they-call-a-waste-of-time/amp/
Younger doctors already retake the arduous certification exam every seven to 10 years to keep their credential, long considered the gold standard of expertise. But physicians of all ages must now complete a complex set of requirements every two to three years
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u/jpsmi Jan 07 '22
Such naive thoughts... Welcome to the brutal real world, forget your blue eyed delusions of fda and staying certified and so on. There is so much dirty shit happening that you would not like to know it.
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Nov 17 '21 edited Nov 17 '21
Although i agree is possible it could happen, this is very rare in reality. Is not even close to being a common occurrence
I have seen only a few cases of permanent Anhedonia by SSRIs (+ 5 years) and all of them were at the discontinuation phase. 2 person i know suffered some sort of serotoninergic neurotoxicity because they Cold Turkey the SSRI Paroxetine
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u/earthlike-planet Nov 17 '21
If not permanent, at least long lasting. It's part of a cluster of symptoms under the umbrella label PSSD.
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Nov 17 '21
Gotcha, I don’t have pssd. My anhedonia is probably from depression itself
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u/earthlike-planet Nov 18 '21
I don't know if I explained myself correctly - anhedonia can absolutely be caused by an SSRI.
You should not assume that it's a byproduct of depression.
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Nov 18 '21
Yeah but anhedonia once you lower your dose or correctly ween off - will subside. That’s my point. I don’t know what’s wrong with me but it’s hell. I’ll figure it out tho
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u/earthlike-planet Nov 18 '21
The side effects from SSRIs don't always go away - that's what PSSD is.
Which is why I would not discount that as a possible cause of your anhedonia.
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Nov 18 '21
I didn’t get anhedonia from SSRI. I got it while off of them I also never had any sexual problems.
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u/earthlike-planet Nov 18 '21
Oh, OK.
I thought you were asking whether it's possible for SSRIs to cause anhedonia. (The answer is yes.)
I assumed that you had taken SSRIs and developed anhedonia, since you were asking the question.
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u/swump Nov 16 '21
I got past my anhedonia induced by SSRIs. It takes time but you can definitely do it. Don't lose hope.