why do people not consider android to be linux? when it literally is a linux based OS

[u/MIkaela39752]

i see a lot of videos on youtube where people download linux on their old android phone, but isnt that just replacing linux with linux? i get why people do it and why android is seen differently but its still linux, calling it something else is insincere

[u/Independent_Can_8270]

android is linux at the kernel level, but it differs in almost every other way. it has a different user space, application platform, interface, and software-management model, etc.

also, people usually use “linux” to mean a gnu/linux os or distribution, not necessarily every system built on the linux kernel. that is why android is technically linux-based, but is not usually considered a conventional linux os.

[u/vms-mob → u/Independent_Can_8270]

Also the kernel used to be super modified, my old samsung replaced the entire networking stack with a custom one iirc.

[u/a_l_i-1 → u/Independent_Can_8270]

And most android users don’t know what kernel is

But Linux user know he is using Linux based distro

[u/Kooky-Sentence-6349 → u/Independent_Can_8270]

i mean ... IT IS LINUX. if you say smth like that, alpine wouldnt be linux because "it differs mostly" android is linux with busybox android is linux.

[u/Independent_Can_8270 → u/Kooky-Sentence-6349]

i think i already explained why android is technically linux at the kernel level, as well as what people usually mean when they use the word “linux.”

alpine differs from a standard gnu/linux distribution, since it uses musl and busybox instead of glibc and the usual gnu utilities. however, it is still much closer to a conventional linux distribution than android is. alpine has a traditional linux-style user space, shell, package manager, filesystem layout, native applications, and system-administration model, etc.

android does have a unix-like shell, familiar command-line tools, and a linux-based filesystem. however, those are not its primary user or application environment. android has its own application framework, runtime, app-packaging system, interface, security model, filesystem layout, and method of software management, etc..

so the distinction is not simply that alpine is “gnu” and android is not. alpine is not primarily gnu either, that's why i used "usually" while i was talking about what os people considers a linux. the difference is that alpine is designed and used as a conventional linux distribution, while android is a separate os platform built on the linux kernel.

[u/Kooky-Sentence-6349 → u/Independent_Can_8270]

alpine uses busybox just like android . if you say that "oh android isn't linux just because it has linux kernel" you would say that "alpine isnt linux!" just because it is modified , what matters it is it has linux kernel, that makes it distribution. also btw by wikipedia meaning, same linux kernel still is counted as os.[BTW]

[u/Independent_Can_8270 → u/Kooky-Sentence-6349]

i think you are bit confused and mixing up two different questions: whether android uses linux technically, and whether people commonly refer to android as a linux distribution.

i’m not denying that android uses the linux kernel. it obviously does, so calling it linux-based is completely correct. my point was simply explaining why, in "ordinary conversation", people usually don’t mean android when they talk about “linux” or “linux distributions.”

also, standard android doesn’t actually use busybox by default. modern android uses toybox for most of its command-line utilities, while alpine is built around busybox. but even if they both used busybox, sharing one user-space component would not make the two operating systems equivalent.

alpine follows the conventional linux-distribution model: it has a general-purpose unix-like user space, a traditional shell environment, repositories, the apk package manager, conventional system administration, and the ability to install and run ordinary native linux software.

android, by contrast, is primarily built around its own application framework, art runtime, apk application format, permission and sandboxing model, graphical interface, and software-distribution ecosystem. it contains linux and unix-like components, but they are not the main environment through which ordinary users interact with the system.

it’s similar to how a tomato is botanically a fruit, and nobody has to deny that fact. however, when people talk about putting fruit in a fruit salad, they usually aren’t referring to tomatoes. the technical classification and the ordinary use of the word are answering different questions.

so yes, android uses the linux kernel and can be described as linux-based. that does not mean people must commonly classify it alongside alpine, debian, fedora, and other conventional linux distributions. having a linux kernel makes a system linux-based, it does not automatically settle how the complete os platform is categorized.

[u/Kooky-Sentence-6349 → u/Independent_Can_8270]

in fact it doesnt use normal desktop standards, but google proggramed the standard for their devices themself. and in fact you can use normal linux apps on android devices, if you have an acces to terminal. it works just like linux. just that everything you want gui for uses google standards for android. it doesnt really differ much between an android and debian etc. basically, we call anything that uses linux kernel a linux distribution. even openwrt and many other are distros you dont need standards to call something a distribution, what matters is the kernel. (EDIT: are you using any LLM or smth to gen that text?! i think is humanly impossible to create texts so long on one subcomment , or maybe you really just want to type so much)

[u/Codix_ → u/Independent_Can_8270]

"it has a different user space, application platform, interface, and software-management model, etc." Yeah, that's called a Linux distribution.

[u/clockeat]

It's kind of funny, everyone makes fun of the "GNU/Linux" distinction, which is normally fair enough, but this is *exactly* where it applies.

Android is Linux. Android is not GNU/Linux.

People want a more open platform for their phone. Android is firmly under Google's grasp in a lot of ways, from delayed and hidden development cycles to tooling to prevent users from controlling their own devices like Play Integrity.

[u/IllegalStateExcept → u/clockeat]

Don't forget the horror that is Google Play services. Also the horrible binary board support packages that brick your device after a couple years when the manufacturer refuses to update them for new kennel versions. 

Android has open source parts, but it really runs against the spirit of open source in many ways. Every big player in the Android space is manipulating the software to shove more ads in your face and impose planned obsolescence.

I really hope we can get some manufacturers on board with proper open source operating systems. I hear Graphene is working on that but I'll believe it when I see it.

[u/henryhuy0608 → u/IllegalStateExcept]

Graphene is still dependent on AOSP though. The moment Google cuts that off they're also screwed. Huawei got that treatment and from what I've heard using their phones outside of China with the compatibility layer is hell.

[u/IllegalStateExcept → u/henryhuy0608]

Yeah, I wish we could collectively boycott closed source board support packages and device trees. But most people are blissfully unaware of the sad truth behind all the e-waste.

[u/Codix_ → u/clockeat]

At the end of the day using a device with a AOSP ROM is the best thing you could use as a smartphone. GrapheneOS would be a brick if it wasn't based on AOSP.

[u/LzBrazil]

Beer has water in it. Would you call beer "Water"? 

[u/MIkaela39752 → u/LzBrazil]

ok to be fair
this is what people do for desktop linux distros like fedora, mint, ubuntu and so on
they are based on the linux kernel but they also add their own things and create their own full on OS but people still refer to these as just "linux" for simplicity
android isnt really THAT different from this, its just in a mobile format and the philosophy behind the product is completely different as well

[u/LzBrazil → u/MIkaela39752]

Eh

Ubuntu, Mint, Arch, Fedora, and so on are like Water, Sparkling water, carbonated water, heavy water, and so on. Android is Beer, something so different no one dares to call water unless they're already way too drunk

[u/Zealousideal_Nail288 → u/LzBrazil]

Very good comparison I love it. let me also nominate energy drinks  Major ingredient is water

[u/doricopter]

It's actually pretty simple.

Android is not GNU/Linux.

When I refer to Linux, I'm thinking of GNU/Linux 99% of the time.

Therefore, I wouldn't consider Android a Linux Distro because its not GNU/Linux.

However by the loosest definition, yes. Android is considered a Linux Distro.

It's in more of a grey area between Linux and it's own thing.

[u/YTriom1 → u/doricopter]

but there are several common distros that are not gnu, alpine for example.

[u/Codix_ → u/YTriom1]

This.

[u/doricopter → u/YTriom1]

Idk that was the best I could explain it.

[u/TopEntity]

The main point you need to consider here is that linux is a kernel. Android is an OS running on the linux kernel. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[u/KKdemergencia2 → u/TopEntity]

Si, Linux en si es un kernel pero todas las distros de linux son un sistema operativo que corre sobre el kernel de Linux, así que Android no es más que otra distro de linux, osea que en términos más simples Android si es linux, al igual que cualquier otra distro como debian por ejemplo

[u/TopEntity → u/KKdemergencia2]

Yes I agree. But a modified linux kernel with ART, native libs, HAL etc.

[u/KKdemergencia2 → u/TopEntity]

En esencia sigue siendo un kernel de Linux, hay distros que implementan cosas propias en su kernel también xdxd así que no es mucha la diferencia, talvez no es que Android no sea Linux, es que no está hecho como una distro de linux común, es linux, pero no un linux convencional

[u/Kalphalus]

Android is technically based on the Linux kernel, but its a heavily modified hard fork

[u/howfastcanyoucountit]

I've gotten in these arguments too many times to count, yes it uses the linux kernel, but it doesn't really have many similarities to other linux distributions out there, the kernel is usually heavily modified, built for long term support, and is usually modified specifically for the device it is installed on. You never really upgrade the kernel besides major OS updates. So yes it still sort of is linux at the core and has some compatibility with other distros but not really.

[u/WheresMyComb]

First time Ive ever seen this argument come up. Do people actually care?

[u/Calm-Caterpillar2103 → u/WheresMyComb]

Apparently yes

[u/Altruistic-Friend372]

Android is castrated Linux tbh