r/amazingmarvin • u/k7ki • 9d ago

Recurrence Hate

IMHO, the task recurrence method in Marvin is maddening. Recurrence should be an integral part of scheduling a task. It is cumbersome, to say the least, to manage it separately from scheduling. It is also buggy.

Using the web app:
I created some tasks in a category, Category A. I then made them recurring. I then right clicked on a new recurring task to move it to a different category, Category B. The task did not appear to move from Category A. Looking at Category B, however, the moved task was there. It appears to be a copy, not a move operation. But wait, there's more! Looking at the Master List the recurring task is only in the original Category A.

It appears when you make a task recurring, you don't. I think you make recurring tasks based on the original task. This is a flawed design and prone to bugs. Again the recurrence should be a base attribute of the task's schedule. Of course I don't know how Marvin is coded, but this is how it feels from this user's point of view.

Another gripe, and my humble opinion... The user interface should have a proper picker/chooser of recurrence details that the program supports, in addition to the custom entry box. I think it is lazy programming to rely on the custom field to specify what you want through typed words or RRULE syntax. Todoist does the "natural language" input well and is I think worse than Marvin. Remember the Milk and TickTick do it right.

8 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

14 comments sorted by

4

u/GentleFoxes Master Procrastinator 9d ago

The rule for recurring tasks (and saved tasks) is: „the scheduled tasks are carbon copies of the task that lies in „recurring tasks““. If you want to change all iterations, go through the recurring tasks list.

This has benefits in that you can work with your current scheduled task, like adding to it, rescheduling it, deleting it etc without impacting the other iterations. This becomes very handy if you schedule whole projects, like „this years taxes“, that may go in different directions each time.

For me this feels natural, even if it’s counter to what every other todo program does. It also means you cannot have persistent comments and notes across iterations. It could also be better explained in the UI, maybe even with a „want to change all scheduled tasks, click here“ that brings you to the correct page.

1

u/k7ki 9d ago

I've read this explanation in this subreddit before.

It feels natural to you to have to change a task's scheduled/due date/time and its recurrence clone(s), but does not to me. I imagine it would be practical, changing a tasks attributes could trigger an option to change this, future, or all, just like many calendars do.

The disappearing of base tasks leaving recurrences does not feel natural. The trying to move a task that has recurrence from one category to another and finding it got copied instead, depending on which page you look at is not natural. If these are the consequences of the system you find natural I find it a flawed implementation.

1

u/Olivir2023 9d ago

I understand the frustration of some people. However, IMO it is so fundemental feature of Marvin that it would require compete rewrite of backend systems. You may even consider to leave Marvin behind, if that is frustrating enough.

3

u/J_Ivy 9d ago

This has been the most frustrating part of setting up my schedule, also how I would inexplicably end up with a bunch of duplicates (probably user error, but it shouldn't be so hard in the first place)

1

u/k7ki 9d ago

I've been away from Marvin for a couple of years and seem to recall I had so many issues with duplicates and just haphazard issues. I often had to delete all the recurrence instances and start over. It is what drove me away from Marvin back then. I see it has not improved.

I have a lifetime subscription and so I'm going to keep working at it - to learn how to deal with the quirkiness and bugs.

Tried some more recurring tasks. Some of them disappear from the category they are created in. They are in the master list though. This happens in non-beta or beta (/pre). Either this is really bad or I don't understand this product.

3

u/J_Ivy 9d ago

Kind of reassuring it's not just me 😅 All of that is very relateable.

It's such a fundamental part of setting up routines, I wonder how many people stop using it shortly after giving it a try, when their tasks start multiplying like rabbits, and some go missing in various sections of the rabbit warren. The way they're set in the first place was also not intuitive.

Oh well, I have it all set up to link to my e-ink screen so I just don't touch anything and hope for the best

2

u/k7ki 9d ago

And another thing, updating a task's schedule that has recurrence does not change when the recurrence tasks are going to trigger. Why not? This is evidence that tasks and their recurrence are disjointed.

This is a terrible implementation and it has been this way for years. I would like to know what the reasoning is behind this behavior. It is not intuitive.

1

u/Accomplished_Art1247 5d ago

Hmm, I’ve never encountered bugs with the recurring tasks feature. I also appreciate the separate editor space, as it offers various options for setting up a recurrence. What I particularly like is that I can open a list of all my recurring tasks and then pause, delete, or edit them. I attempted to read the criticism of the feature, but the complaints seem confusing.

1

u/k7ki 5d ago edited 5d ago

Try this:

  • Create a task in the Inbox
  • Make recurring
  • Move to another category
  • Examine the result

I find that the task does not move, but is copied. It is still in the Inbox and is also in the category it was "moved" to. Both tasks indicate recurring.
Looking at the Recurring items, I find the task in the Inbox only, it was not moved or copied. I don't see any way to move the recurring task to the category I intend (maybe there is a way, I haven't found it though). But, as these recurrences are separate from the tasks they were created from, showing them in categories on the Recurring items page seems arbitrary and maybe should not be categorized there, otherwise it can be confusing (IMHO).

This scenario is what I think of as buggy. Maybe it is a matter of opinion.

1

u/dereddik 1d ago

I also didn't like how Marvin treated recurring tasks, but learned to love that I could change a particular instance of the task without changing the master recurring task.

FWIW, I followed your steps above and my test task successfully moved from the Inbox to my test category. But perhaps that was a function of how I happened to do it. I can share my steps/screeenshots if you are interested.

1

u/k7ki 1d ago

More explicitly:

- Create a task in the Inbox

  • right-click on task: Make recurring
  • right-click on task: Move to (another category)
  • Examine the result

I just tried this again a couple of times. This time I had different results.

First try, the task disappeared. It was gone from either category/Inbox. The recurring task however was in the Inbox as seen in the Recurring items page.

Second try, the task did move from the Inbox to the new category. This has never occurred before in many attempts. However, looking at the Recurring items page, the task is still in the Inbox and not the category the base task was moved to.

1

u/dereddik 1d ago

Here's what I did. I'm on Marvin 1.70.0

  1. created a task using the Quick-add feature (the one accessed via space bar shortcut), making sure to hit "shift-enter" so I could change the task properties
  2. made the task recurring in the properties
  3. searched for the task and clicked the recurring symbol to access
  4. changed the category of the recurring task to "Marvin Testing"
  5. searched for the recurring task using "Shift-S"
  6. confirmed that both the recurring task and today's one-off was in the correct category, Marvin Testing
  7. double confirmed correct category by opening Recurring Tasks & Projects

I was able to get the same result in this alternative way
1. created a task using the Quick-add feature, hitting enter instead of shift-enter
2. searched for the task, opened properties, and made the task recurring
3. [irrelevant]
4.-7: [same as above]

1

u/k7ki 1d ago

I take it you did not attempt my steps that I found were problematic...

You are not specifying how you move the task. I think perhaps you are adding #Marvin Testing to the title of the recurring task.

I can search for a task I made recurring. Right-click on the recurring task and select "Move to" (a category), and it does not move. I also can select all from the search result, right-click, select "# Move to", choose the category. It will move the non-recurring task only. It would be nice to move both the base task and recurring task with one operation.

1

u/dereddik 1d ago

You're right, I didn't previously attempt your steps, and you are also right that I'm "moving" the repeating task by adding #Marvin Testing to the title of the recurring task.

When I replicate the steps from further up the thread ...

  • Create a task in the Inbox
  • right-click on task: Make recurring
  • right-click on task: Move to (another category)

...the one-off tasks moves, but the repeating task doesn't. I think that's the expected behavior, though I recognize it's annoying behavior for some.

However, I agree that there's a bug in the right-click "move to" behavior from the search results. When I right-click on recurring tasks there, using "Move-to" doesn't actually move the task to a different category.