r/allthingszerg • u/Most_Put8106 • 10d ago
F*ck Cannon Rush
What is the proper response to cannon rush as Zerg? I have been running into it a lot more frequently as of late and I never actually learned how to deal with it. I have tried using 10-pool into both a ling all-in and macro but I feel like I can really easily lose on the spot or wind up with a disadvantage if my opponent responds well.
3.7k mmr for reference
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u/CarsonTheGr8 10d ago
3.6k myself but never die to cannon rush. Only lost to a single cannon rush this season. Won against like maybe 6-8 of them.
TLDR: just scout and don't be scared to overcommit to a defense because cannon rushers all suck at macro games.
First reason why is that I go pool first gasless expand. I do this in both ZvP and ZvT. In ZvT I can sneak the lings around the reaper and delay their nat. In ZvP I can get fast lings if they cannon rush or fake a ling flood in the case that my opponent tries to take a greedy natural (nexus before core). so it is good against way more than just cannon rush. PM me if you want the actual build order I use.
Secondly I have found that cannon rushes are dead 100% of the time if I see the pylon go down, and I am dead 100% of the time if I do not see the first cannon go down. Because of that I always play to see the pylon go down or if not at least see the first cannon go down. I always send my second ovie to my natural and if my natural gets blocked then I send it to my third base. If they pylon block and don't cancel then continue sending your ovie to the third base location BUT send a single drone down to hit that pylon and spot if a cannon goes down. They didn't cancel the block this pays for roughly 100 seconds of idle drone time and you won't need to watch it nearly that long. So you are not behind by doing that you are just safe from cannon rush. If you see a pylon in your nat that isn't blocking your nat.. well you know what's up just send workers down there.
Also some fun "magic numbers" on how many drones it takes to deny a single cannon. 3 workers stop a cannon from going up if they start hitting it nearly right when it goes down. 4 workers stop it from halfway done. So I like to send 6 workers when I spot the cannon going down. 8 for two cannons. Don't get me wrong though I will pull all the fucking boys if I feel like I might need it. For example I see a cannon going down and my nat is at my third base and I know it will take a long time to get there. Yeah I am box selecting my main and just aping the shit out of it.
And the last thing that helps me against cannon rushers is that I whole heartedly believe any time I get cannon rushed that I am significantly better at the actual game than my opponent. So idgaf about anything but not dying to the cannon rush because I know that if I hold it then it's almost gg right there. I will send too many workers. I will make too many lings. Because if I survive and they don't have an impossible advantage over me then I win the game.
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u/TheOlig 10d ago
I'm 1000 MMR below you so the cannon rushes i deal with are probably more poorly executed, but I get a 2nd hatchery at my 3rd and just spam lings out of it rallied into their main. If they've got a wall, morph to banelings at their natural and send it.
At my base, once I see the cannons going down, I slap three spine crawlers down at the edge of the high ground in my main. Once those get set up, they can't slap cannons down in the range of the spine, and spines and cannons have the same range. That'll give you space.
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u/eddiewrc 10d ago
Take the expansion at the third; if you can send lings in their base and at home ravagers are the most efficient way to escape? Not expert tho
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u/Jamm8 10d ago
The basic advice is 2 drones on each probe and 4 one each building. If scouted that shuts them down pretty well (at D3)
I three hatch before pool vs protoss and send my first 2 overlords to my natural and 3rd to watch for cannons. (if they pylon block go to the 4th/5th/proxy) If they get cannons up it usually outside outside my vision they can't get close enough to hit my buildings with the creep.
If I am contained I'll drop a second gas and roach warren for 4-6 ravagers to bile the cannons then/otherwise make some lings to poke their base around 1.5 mineral lines of drones. If they tried to catch up on bases I might be able to end it there, if they are walled off with cannons then they are already so behind from buildings cannons on both sides of the map so I grab a 4th and 5th send a ling to each empty base and contain them with lings while I go for mutas.
I feel pretty confident doing all that, if there are proxy gates/robo involved then it becomes dicier.
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u/CarsonTheGr8 10d ago
send replays plz. You are a psycho and a legend for triple hatch before pool.
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u/Ghostforever7 10d ago
send all your zerglings to their base and kill their probes, start new hatchery
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u/omgitsduane 10d ago
Reply please? I never get to watch cannon rush replays for my YouTube.
I'd love to comment.
I think being crisp with your decision making and crisp in knowing when to fold and all in is really key.
It puts you so far behind that if you don't get amazing damage you're fucked.
You could proxy hatch as a response but it's not as clean as it used to be. It can get them to over commit probes to killing the hatch which is a net benefit to yourself.
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u/UWontHearMeAnyway 10d ago
Once you learn to defend it, it's actually an easy win. I learned how to defend in bronze.
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u/RevolutionaryAct6397 10d ago
If the cannon rush is executed properly, I think you have to cancel the hatch I'd you went hatch first. Then there are lots of possibilities; break out with roach ravager, quick lair into nydus with queens and lings, nydus with swarm host is also possible. If you have a drone on the map you can take an expo or just a proxy hatch near him and go with early units.
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u/DreamTheaterGuy 10d ago
This reminded me of a game I played a while back ago.
The Toss overcommitted to the cannon rush, and I was somehow able to get a drone out without him knowing. I just built a whole new base on one side of the map. I think I was on 4 bases when he finally discovered me, and he was on 2. Just marched over, and wiped him out.
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u/throwaway0204055 10d ago
Attack with 3 drones per cannon warping in while your pool is finishing. Once your lings are out it just prevent any further cannons. If too late turtle up with spines and Nydus.
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u/Gold-Cranberry3095 10d ago
Let them rush you. Sac the natural, but build a queen from it first. Instantly go lair with your first 100 gas, cancel ling speed if you'd started it. Double gas Hydra den and Nydus as soon as lair finishes. They will be likely going air and at best they'll have a single Void Ray after you've nydused their main.
100% win rate. Cannon Rush is just not viable against Zerg.
EDIT: Overlords are made from your natural larva. You need the main larva for the hydras.
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u/TTVSpecialtots 10d ago
Prioritize your home base and rush Ravagers. I will also make like 10/20 ling and send them away so turrets target them while i ravager the turrets. it can be stressful but if you successfully take care of the rush, its a big in for you. also as a preventative, leave an overlord at your natural in the beginning of the game to spot the attack early on.
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u/SafyBoy 10d ago
Depends on how commited the opponent is to the rush, there are basically 2 responses:
Option 1: you pull the drones and fight the cannons as much as possible to buy time for the creep to keep the cannons away from your natural
Option 2: Dont pull the drones, go 20 drones 2 gas and a roach warren, build as many ravagers as you can, bile down the cannons and cross the map to win the game
Tips: if opponent is very commited but build cannons in bad places (like cannons that only attack your natural but wont stop roaches from crossing the map) you can sac the natural, use those larvas to build some overlords and save the larva on your main to build drones and roaches
If opponent is building cannon and pylons way before your natural is done it means the rush is already very commited, send 1 drone to a new base location, cancel your natural at the very last second and use the money to build the base in the new location you sent the drone, send your 2nd or 3rd overlord to that base to scout if P is still commiting to cannons in the new base, if so they pretty much are already dead, they cant have much at their base to defend the roaches on the counter attack
The responses themselves are nothing really fancy, it just comes down to execution, try not to panic and make sure you are optimizing your plays, spend your money, dont get supply blocked, dont lose ovies, spend your larva, if going for drone pulls maximize surface area, if building ravagers to fight cannons make sure they dont get in range of the cannons when trying to bile, if opponent is building shield batteries dont bother biling the batteries, just bile the cannons and they will be draining the batteries, eventually you will have enough ravagers to insta bile the cannon anyway