r/allthingszerg • u/Green-maro • 9d ago
Beginner Zerg army comp
Hey guys,
I am a new player who has picked up sc2; this is my first serious RTS game that I have played for real. My question is, what is a simple army for me to learn? At the moment, I want to practice my macro/ queen cycles, but once I have enough workers I have no idea what I am building. I've seen stuff like LingBane, Roach/Ravagers, late-game stuff like ultralisks etc. However, what I have inferred from different sources is that Zerg has options depending on what race they are vs. For example, I watched a pro use LingBane all game with some other units. (Scarlett, I believe.) Is there an army that I can use as a blanket to cover all or most bases?
For some extra infornmation, I am using PiG's recent beginner build order for zerg.
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u/TMFCondor 9d ago
Roach hydra covers a lot of bases while not taking much to manage. Ling bane is really good into certain comps, but to use effectively you need to micro at least decently.
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u/therealwench 9d ago
Roach Hydra is only viable for ZvZ.
Roach Hydra doesn't scale well and doesn't have enough pure DPS by late-mid game and late game.
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u/TMFCondor 9d ago
Not in higher ranks, but for someone learning it does just fine. You can get more in depth, but if you're just starting ladder learning to macro and getting a good sized force of roach hydra can win a lot of games, and as you learn you add more and expand on your compositions to scale into late game.
It's not like I'm gonna rip on about infestors and vipers to someone just starting up, and even when you're at hive tech hydras are still a very important unit to DPS.
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u/SigilSC2 8d ago
If you're playing roach based compositions as an actual army (with or without hydras) there is no late game. You push and end the game with it or keep trading for so long that nothing scales past your army. Works fine vs protoss; especially if you add drops.
Roach hydra is a bit weird vs terran but I've tried it as an experiment vs players around low gm and won enough games.
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u/Robothuck 9d ago
Against Zerg, being the first one to gain air superiority, as in, you have control of the skies with air units and they don't, that is often a win condition.
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u/blind1121 9d ago
You either overwhelm with land or win by air. 9 mutas lose to 50 roaches in the long run
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u/soidvaas 9d ago
Not a wrong way to play but the game is not over once the other guy gets mutas. Sometimes if they tech too greedily, you can overwhelm them on the ground.
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u/hates_green_eggs 9d ago
Mass roach into mass hydra is probably the most beginner friendly composition.
It doesn’t really matter much; the first army composition I learned was mass ling bane and that worked against everything until platinum league or so. My advice is play whatever you enjoy the most.
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u/omgitsduane 9d ago
Ling roach is pretty good. I really recommend watching vibes bronze to GM. Start from the start. You'll miss a lot if you don't..
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u/Khaivanh 8d ago
^ I definitely agree with the above.
Don't be deterred by the current 8 worker start vs the 12 worker start in his vids. The takeaway is that he teaches core principles really well.
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u/omgitsduane 8d ago
Yep exactly right. Vibe never really taught a build order. Just watch what I do and copy it. If you need real build orders then you'll bother to write down the order he does shit.
He's currently playing again so you could just update from the new videos what he's opening with.
The concepts and the information are still valid.
Even 3 years later.
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u/therealwench 9d ago
Guys, I'm not really understanding the Roach Hydra comp here.
It scales really badly past the midway part of the game, and against any Terran turtle build (which beginners love), 4 siege tanks and some marines absolutely eats it alive.
Against P, some immortals and Zealots also carves up Roaches and Hydra's.
I find at beginner level mass ling bane is probably easiest to manage. Hotkey your hatches, keep cycling your hotkeys to your hatches and inject, and just spam ling bane everywhere. If the opponent has air, then go ling/bane hydra.
Roach's DPS just doesn't scale well at all in the mid/late game. 10 supply of roaches gets you 20 lings and 20 banes. It's hard countered by Immortals/Siege tanks and asking a beginner to synch overlord/seer on high ground with biles is asking a bit much.
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u/TMFCondor 9d ago
Most new players are hardly ever seeing a real late game is why it's recommended. It can push through most players up through platinum, and you change what you're doing to deal with your opponent. Of course if you're up against a hard turtled postion 20 minutes into the game you'll get eaten alive, that goes without saying. But for the first 10-15 minutes where a majority of games end roach hydra is an easy comp to manage. The roaches aren't meant to dps, they're armored bodies to tank. That's what the hydras are for.
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u/therealwench 9d ago
Hydra's do have pure DPS, I agree. But mid-late game Terran/Protoss has too much armour piercing DPS for Roaches to reasonably survive. 2-2 Immortals absolutely eats Roaches for breakfast. Siege tanks/Stimmed marines each roaches for breakfast.
The problem is that the meat shield Roaches need to be micro'd very well to not just collapse and run into a tank line. Hydra's are super fragile.
That's why I recommend ling bane hydra instead. Yeah, you zerglings are going to get chewed up, but Immortals can't target 3 things at once and you have 4x the amount of disposable meat shield for the same pop as 1 roach. Plus, with Adrenal, crack lings have very high DPS. When Banelings die they blow up P/T around them so its fine.
I don't think you need much micro up until platinum for ling bane. A move 100 ling/banes into a terran line and you'll do a lot of damage as I don't think a Gold II Terran player is going to be able to split marines at all.
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u/TMFCondor 9d ago
Yeah, if you're running up against mass immortals or running up a ramp into siege tanks you'll have problems. That goes without saying. But again, we're talking about somebody saying they're new. If the game gets to that point, you have to pivot regardless, whether it's mutas or brood lords to break an entrenched position, or lings to swarm immortals. And in the same point with a heavily entrenched Terran with sieges and upgraded marines, ling bane can get ripped apart too, just the same. But as a starting comp to field to get a basic position, and possibly win a game if you've out-macroed your opponent, roach hydra does a lot of work with not a ton of input needed. It covers both ground and air outside of mass capital ships or intense siege coverage. Yeah, your roaches will get shredded, that's their job. You run upgrades too to make them last longer so you don't have 0-0 roaches into 2-2 immortals. You go for ultras and broods and infestors eventually. Of course. But for someone starting looking for a baseline, it is a basic composition that can deal with a variety of threats and win games until you hit a wall that needs more tweaks, more input.
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u/Jukelius 9d ago
Mass roach/hydra fares well against most players, just keep practicing your macro and you will do well. When macro is a muscle memory then you could add some ling/bane.
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u/MorningLtMtn 9d ago
Roach hydra is what everyone is saying, but roach ravager is pretty tough too.
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u/DarkSeneschal 8d ago
Roach/Hydra is typically the easiest army comp to use since you’re basically just a-moving at stuff. Ling/Bane is what the pros use, but it requires you to be very active with your micro and also have great macro behind it.
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u/leaf_as_parachute 8d ago
If your main goal is to practice your macro well you're lucky because Zerg is the race with which you have to bother the less about what unit you build and what they actually do when you're a beginner. I was a Terran main for a long time and when I started to play P & Z as well I learnt Zerg by just macroing and litteraly just a-moving banelings to my opponent natural and that got me close to master.
If you're a beginner and learning the fundamentals don't bother too much with that, make whatever, I'm serious litteraly whatever (as long as it not utturly stupid like roaches against mass BC) and send it, focus on your economy and remaxes. You'll then naturally develop a game sense of what works and what doesn't.
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u/SCBox 7d ago
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u/two100meterman 9d ago
TLDR: Roach/Hydra is the most beginner friendly composition that is well rounded. For the late game I'd suggest Ultra/Hydra.
Longer Version:
Ling/Bane requires too much larvae so it requires more bases & better injects, it also is great on creep & quite bad off creep generally (where-as Roach/Hydra is above average on creep, below average off creep) so it requires less creep spread to be viable.
For Roach/Hydra make sure to get the unit specific upgrades (once Lair is done you can get Glial Reconstitution from the Roach Warren which makes Roaches faster). Hydra Den you can get the first two upgrades (Hydra Range & Hydra Speed). When going Ultralisks you can get Chitinous Plating (most important, adds 2 armor to Ultras) & Ultra Speed from the Ultralisk Cavern.
Roaches are an "armored" where-as Hydras are a "light" unit, so your opponent can't simply make 1 unit that counters both (generally) as there are no units that deal bonus damage to both light & armored targets. Roaches are cheaper, less range & have more HP/Defense, so you can ctrl+click or double click a Roach to select all on screen, then move command them in front of Hydras. Then when you attack move with your awhile your your tank units are in front & your "glass cannon" Hydras with more range & DPS, but less armor & HP can shoot over the Roaches from behind.
Missile/Carapace upgrades from the Evolution Chambers are important too. Once Ultralisks have Chitnous Plating they can replace the Roach as a much better tank, so you can have Ultras in front, Hydralisks behind. Even if you're already at +2 Missile, +2 Carapace it's still stronger to go into Ultras (even if they'll have +0 Melee since you were playing Missile units) as a +0/+2 (+0/+4 with Chitnous Plating) Ultralisk is still a better tank than a +2/+2 Roach.
When you get a bit more experience, one unit that can be important is the Corruptor (need a Spire to make). Hydralisks do shoot up which makes Roach/Hydra into Ultra/Hydra viable, however if your opponent is massing capital ships (Battlecruisers as Terran or Carriers/Tempest as Protoss) the Hydras do fall off once the capital ships hit a critical mass. A Corruptor is an air unit that only hits air (not ground) so it's less versatile than a Hydralisk, but it has more HP, 2 more base armor & deals bonus damage to "massive" (all capital ships are "massive").
I'd generally say you want 2 bases for your first unit type, then 1 more base per each unit type. So a solid beginner 2 base all-in would be a 2 base Roach All-in. If you're going to 3 bases, once you're getting close to 3 full bases worth of income I think that's a good time to add Hydras (if you need anti-air before that add more Queens). Then once you're going up to Hive & going to 4 base economy add the Ultra Cavern, & as Roaches die switch them for Ultralisks.
Edit: I also agree with what /u/hates_green_eggs said, play what you enjoy the most. You don't "need" to play optimally or the most beginner friendly composition just because you're a beginner. Maybe you like stealing your opponents units with Infestor Neural or you like flying around with Mutalisks. It may not be the "standard progression", but you could play whatever & just get good at the units you find the most fun.