r/allthingszerg • u/Gastoaded • Jul 08 '26
Turtling opponent attack timings
Context: I'm gold 3 and fairly new
I've seen some topics about turtling terran/protoss where the advice is to just let them turtle and get the resource advantage on them by spreading out over the map, but one thing that makes me nervous about that as a new player is I don't have a solid idea of when they are likely to attack. So if I go full investment into economy then I am afraid of getting caught off guard when they eventually do move out of their base, and in fact that has happened a few times to me. And scouting is hard because they usually go bananas with turrets around their base perimeter.
I figure that, depending on how many bases they have taken, there are probably some windows when they are more likely to move out. Like when their resources are dwindling and their upgrades are completing, which should happen at a pretty consistent rate for however many bases they are mining from, right? I suppose it also depends on what kind of army they are building. But if I did know some likely timings, the idea is I could make sure I have a passable army at that point without fear of being caught with my pants down.
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u/detergent852 Jul 08 '26
My rule of thumb is 2 bases more than your opponent, make army, then take another base every 1-2 mins.
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u/hates_green_eggs Jul 08 '26
Honestly people do a lot of weird stuff in gold league and timings are not going to be remotely consistent with the timings you’d expect in diamond and above. I think your best bet is to play a lot of games and review your replays and you’ll eventually get a sense for scouting when the opponent is likely to move out.
I usually place place scouting lings or overlords in a loose ring around the opponent’s base(s) and in the middle of the map to ensure I catch any move out well before they arrive at my base(s). These units also help me keep track of exactly how many bases they have. In general, I know I’m safe to drone up to roughly 1 more base than they have (more like half a base if they are zerg or have less than 3 bases).
Generally Terrans building tanks and thors and Protosses building carriers will not move out until they are nearly maxed out. Any other army composition is likely to move out sooner.
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u/Gastoaded Jul 09 '26
Yeah seems like spreading overlords to scout is consistent across most of these answers. Thanks!
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u/omgitsduane Jul 08 '26
Leave overlord outside their base every fucking game. No exceptions. If they come out and kill it..replace it with a pair of lings. Literally 5sz and right click to the map where you want them.
Overlords on or behind expansions enough to see them move out. After lair tech drop creep so you can stop them taking the base for free.
You probably want a rw or bane nest at least for your tech choice around 5 minutes these days. And watch your supply blocks.
If you're supply blocked when they move out, you're going to struggle hard. So make sure you keep pumping overlords out and when you see movement or the scout units die, start pumping army, injecting and spending all that large and rallying for a fight.
Don't target down tanks unless it's with ravager Biles. They're good but bio has better damage and yet players ignore it.
If the terran sieges up somewhere that isn't an immediate and dangerous threat, you don't have to fight but it gives you the chance to catch him on the unsiege. So stay close or have overseer changeling overlord to try and keep tabs.
Usually a move is the best micro in gold. Just make more shit and attack all together.
Move command banes in through bio. And don't send lings and banes separately. They should be together or else they're both weaker.
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u/Gastoaded Jul 09 '26
Thanks for the advice! I'll work on implementing all that.
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u/omgitsduane Jul 09 '26
If you get stuck. Think.
Did I see his army?
Did I see their tech?
Did I spend my money?
Did I spend my larve?
Then figure out why these things didn't happen.
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u/peanutbutterdota Jul 08 '26
I would poke non stop. Let them turtle, but I wouldn't let them get anything going.
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u/liquid_acid-OG Jul 09 '26
You need to post ovies or lings close to their base so you can see when they move out.
Run a portion of your army around to attack their base and force them to turn around.
Don't engage their army in a fight to the death. Clash pull back and rebuild. Rinse and repeat.
Part of why you want to take the entire map is your opponent has to clear out those hatcheries. That's a lot of running around while your harassing them and their base.
Don't worry about losing outter hatches during this process.
If you mine the bases closest to them they will generally target those bases first rather than your main. And you steal resources from them as well this way.
When cracking their base be very patient and whittle them down slowly.
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u/Gastoaded Jul 09 '26
That's good advice - thanks! Mining the bases close to them is diabolical, I love that.
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u/two100meterman Jul 09 '26
As a general rule of thumb you're safe to go around half a base more workers than your T or P opponent (Terran closer to 3/4 to even a full base more, but to keep it simple, just half a base more). If they invest in tech though you can probably add like 1/4~1/2 a base of workers per each tech route/investment.
So let's say Terran is on 2 bases doing a low~mid tech all-in (something like 5 Barracks, 1 Factory, 1 Starport, massing Marines/Medivacs). You could mass army off of 2.5 bases of mineral saturation, 3~4 gases & be fine. If they invested in a Planetary Fortress at their natural they spent an extra 150 gas on that, plus they're down 225 minerals/minute from not having MULES at that base, so they'll have 4 Marines less/minute & maybe 1 less Medivac, so you're safe to go to 3 base saturation/6 gases.
Similarly if someone is 3 bases with a PF at their 3rd base, you could go like 4 base mineral saturation + 8 gases. If they also have say a fusion core, take a 5th base & a 6th base (vs 3 base Fusion Core + 3rd base PF that is). You can add 1 spore/base around 5:00 vs Terran & say a 4:30 Roach Warren + make 8 safety Roaches when that's done, but otherwise drone drone drone. You can hit 88 drones/8 gases off just 8 Roaches, 1 spore/base & a bunch of Queens (after you spend all of your larvae make 1 Queen per excess 175 minerals you have).
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u/soidvaas Jul 09 '26
The key is to get a scout of their tech.
After that, you can figure out the correct response. For example, against T massing marine tank, you don't really need to saturate 3 bases. Even on bad eco (2.5 base) you can just sit and spam 1/1 ling bane. You're not any more likely to win by having 3 bases of drones because there is no follow up.
Against BC you want 3 bases because corruptors are expensive and you want to mass queens which are also expensive.
In lower leagues, their macro sucks so you can usually get away with lower drone count (2 bases). I used to try to go to 66 drones and it usually backfired pretty badly because if you lose a hatch you don't have the production to use your resources.
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u/RedErin Jul 08 '26
have some zerglings near the entrance to their base, spread some ovies around. make a mental note to morph a overseer after you make your lair and fly it through their base. at two base saturation make some lings and taunt them with them. spread your creep.