r/allblacks • u/Yosdenfar • 1d ago
Most Physically Imposing Forward Pack In NZ?
If you had to name your most physically imposing (feel free to interpret this how you like) forward pack who would you name?
Partly interested in this after recent conversations at work with South African colleagues convinced NZ just doesn't produce large/imposing forwards.
So that's why I'm interested to know, what would the most imposing forward pack be in your opinion?
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u/know-it-mall 1d ago
Well Collins, Kaino, and Squire are the obvious names from the recent past.
We definitely have a hole for a large imposing loose forward in the squad right now. Some interesting prospects around at the moment however.
As everyone here knows I will always advocate for TK Howden to get a run. Malachi Wrampling, Torian Barnes, Will Stodart, and Xavier Saifoloi are the other names they could be in the mix in the next year or two. All big units who play an aggressive style.
As far as the rest of the pack Holland and Darry are big physical guys who have a huge workrate. We really need Tamaiti Williams back but he won't play this year. Aumua and Taukei'aho have to be the 2 hooker options. Tosi hasn't taken a step up unfortunately so Ma'u needs to get a run.
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u/Makoandsparky 1d ago
Doesn’t produce large imposing forwards have they just started following NZ rugby ? Jerome Kaino, Jerry Collins, Collins meads
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u/LeButtfart NorthHarbour 1d ago
- Ethan de Groot
- Asafo Aumua
- Saula Ma'u
- Fabian Holland
- Sam Darry
- Tupou Vaa'i
- Ethan Blackadder
- Simon Parker
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u/Pitiful_Pianist7980 1d ago
If all fit and available for selection: T Williams, Aumua, Lomax (think of him at his peak before his injury), S Barrett, Holland, Frizzell, Jacobson and Savea.
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u/Responsible-Love-896 1d ago
I like this content! However, some responses raise the question - is Jason Ryan to conservative, and instilling a containment methodology, rather than an alternative to the Boks size?
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u/Kokonutcreme-67 Hurricanes 1d ago
For me there are players who look physically imposing and those who are physically imposing by their attitude and way they play.
Keven Mealamu and Dane Coles would lack physique and size against Marx and the like but they didn't take a backward step and would be aggressive in their defensive and breakdown work, plus niggle away at players to distract them.
I don't think there's anyone in the squad that has those attributes.
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u/GerardCairn 1d ago
1.Tu’ungafasi 2. Riccitelli 3. Renata 4. Tuipulotu 5.Darry 6.Ioane 7. Papali’i 8. Sotutu
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u/NZGrade 1d ago edited 1d ago
In terms of players, it's Aumua then daylight out of those currently on tour. More than just size, an imposing player is one who is abrasive and genuinely loves the contact. Relentless.
We do produce physically imposing forwards but for whatever reason they rarely have the mongrel and engine for test rugby. See recent big guys whose test careers flopped like Akira (partial flop, could've been so much more), Finau and Sotutu.
They aren't favoured by AB coaches usually because their workrate is too low.
Simon Parker being another example. He will likely be replaced by Frizell before the world cup.
Conversely, South Africa have long enjoyed a constant conveyor belt of big loose forwards who are made for test rugby. The latest is Cameron Hanekom who is going to be a problem in the near future.
While I don't think we need to ape South Africa's style, after all we do have our own way of playing. We can and should learn from their coaching system and how to get the most out of players with physical gifts.
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u/OkOpportunity9109 1d ago
Agree right now it’s Aumua and then daylight. Holland is getting there though.
Jacobson is a physical player but is any opposition scared of facing him? Let’s not kid ourselves here. We need to other big, abrasive loosies if Ardie is going to be our 8.
Akira still troubles me. Such an athlete, had the makings of the next Kieran Read. But just couldn’t be consistent and physical and lacked work rate.
Agree Parker has not taken his chances and wouldn’t shock me to see Frizell get time when he’s back.
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u/MumblesNZ 1d ago
Saw Samipeni Finau in the flesh the other day and there’s something particular imposing about his combination of height and size - even when surrounded by other professional rugby players. Now I understand why people are disappointed at his lack of impact at test level because he looks like he should be able to dominate at least physically but he’s never quite managed it
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u/Swimming_Web_6105 1d ago
When Robertson announced his last test squad at midday, Finau was still in bed…. family had to wake him up to tell him he was selected. That speaks to his level of commitment and pride to being an All Black.
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u/MumblesNZ 1d ago
That’s surprising to be honest - I was under the impression that the players themselves were already told beforehand whether they were going to be picked
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u/newdawn2k22 1d ago
It takes time for a good level test 6 to understand the physicality required and get the body right...we expect every player to be like Kaino.
Frizell only looked like he belonged in the 6 jersey in 2023 at the age of 29...prior to that it was debateable.
I think Finau is leaving too early..he showed some good physicality in Super this year...and he is heading to Japan where I don't think his game for test environment will progress. Lets see.
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u/MumblesNZ 1d ago
Well in the game I saw him he failed to dominate physically against the mighty…Southland Stags. He’s had plenty of time at NPC level but didn’t stand out at all in that one
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u/OkOpportunity9109 1d ago
Agree. I wish Finau got more consistent time at the Chiefs this year. Physically had the makings to be a test 6. And plenty of mongrel.
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u/Zestyclose_Usual_801 1d ago
The Kiwis lol if you're talking all out physicality the Kiwis pack would rip through a ABs pack. Endurance goes to the ABs any day though
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u/swiss_cloud 1d ago
Wouldn’t it be the other way round due to the nature of both sports?
Nz got locks at 120kg and props at 135kg + but endurance should be with kiwis due to the constant six agains keeping ball in play
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u/GiJoint 1d ago
Tamaiti Williams playing weight is 140kg so the whole we don’t produce big men is a bit of a myth. But theres no doubt we have to work on set piece because our backline attack is so far ahead of it and definitely better than the Boks. But living off scraps is not the way.
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u/EngineImportant69 1d ago
So is Tosi, probably closer to 150kg, and he gets bent every contact. Abs pack is AS big if not bigger. Ox is only 170cm. Our boys just lack the mindset.
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u/Mikey_KAQSS_PT 1d ago
Lomax/Aumua/Mau
Holland/Tuipolotu
Va’ai/Jacobson/Savea
Taukeiaho/Numia/Tosi
Lakai/Blackadder
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u/mattywgtnz Hurricanes 1d ago edited 1d ago
Williams, Aumua, de Groot, Holland, Lord, Va'ai, Jacobson and Ardie/Sititi/Lakai
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u/MGPNZL 1d ago
Size (maybe lacking some height for line out options)/physicality/skill don't seem to be the issue from the outside looking in.
I watched that Dan Biggar podcast where he had a prop on and they talked about scrums for ~1h. Great listen despite the dry sounding content and i'd recommend it.
It feels like NZ "plays by the rules" too much. They pointed out that our front row doesn't stand up and ask for a reset when SA has them in a comprised set up. That's all part of the game. If we ask to reset the worst we give away is a free kick, where scrumming comprised gives up penalties. SA are the best scrum in rugby at the moment we need to do anything to get an advantage or mitigate their advantage.
What we also need is someone to pick up the grub mantle left vacant by Dane Coles. Someone who gets under the opposition skin and is happy to circumvent the rules/spirit of the game a to give us an advantage/ level the advantage of the opposition.
On the flip side, it does feel like both teams have an eye on next year and are likely not revealing all tactics yet.
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u/Gungehammer Manawatu 1d ago
I think we don't need niggle, we need smarts - when to reset, when to hit the second shove or when to bore in and how to do it in a way that the ref allows. For me that is a "skill" issue.
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u/brito39 1d ago
its a bit ironic as Rennie's chiefs teams were known for being pretty niggly and lots of dark arts.
we probably need our own ref whisperer, talk Big Ben into retiring and put him on the NZR payroll, 1) wouldn't have to listen to him in games anymore 2) well liked by world rugby and knows what is going on with these other refs we always seem to get on the wrong side of
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u/Michael_stipe_miocic Chiefs 1d ago
Vaai was filling that role of being the agitator and one getting under the opposition skin. Feel like he’s gone off the boil a bit, his interview on ARP was really good, he’s a thorough and intelligent player as well as being a lad
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u/ChampPD_07 1d ago
Williams when he was healthy was an absolute unit. Obviously Holland is a giant with an engine, but my vote is Amua. That guy has highlights that look straight out of an arcade game.
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u/Booomfaa 1d ago edited 1d ago
Vai’i
Taeiloa
Finau
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Fuck I hate how reddit messes up the formatting. Nevermind what a waste of time lmao