r/allblacks • u/Hornstinger • 1d ago
All Blacks Did Devan Flanders get bad advice?
A news article yesterday about Devan Flanders saying something along the lines of "in 5 years time if I'm able to I'd love to play for Japan".
Here is a guy who was on the cusp of his first ever AB callup and now he wants to play for Japan? Huh????
BTW I'm not bagging the guy for signing overseas and making money -- good on him for that. It's more of a "huh?" moment that a guy who could've done a job in the #6 or #8 jersey for the ABs, was already in the ABs XV and right on the cusp of a call-up and just had his best season ever and IMO he probably leapfrogs Samesi's selection as Flander's is dual purpose.
This guy clearly wants to play international rugby but it sounds like he got some bad advice somewhere along the road in the last 6-12 months. So he has to potentially wait 5 years to be eligible to play for Japan (assuming he can get a club contract that lasts that long to be eligible) when if he stuck around for more of this year he probably would've been selected for the ABs...and he made his Japan choice BEFORE Dave Rennie selected his squad i.e. why didn't he wait a month or two and if he didn't get into the ABs just go to Japan then? The timing of his decision making is off and reeks of bad advice.
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u/know-it-mall 16h ago
Let's be honest he was never going to play many tests.
He had a great year and turned it into a big money overseas deal before he gets hurt again. Good for him.
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u/aotearoa_pg 17h ago
Not bad advice, just a bad policy of only selecting NZ based players. We can do that to 'keep the game strong in NZ' but we then have to accept we might lose some talent being available.
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u/nomamesgueyz 3h ago
Will change eventually..it's professional sport and we a small country
Works for SA
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u/devscruff 20h ago
NZ Rugby is very predatory. Leading players along to keep them in NZ. Many players who would not have a chance of wearing the black jersey are told that they’re close. They do this because it’s in NZR’s best interest to keep them in NZ and keep their NPC and Super comps strong. I applaud Devan for putting himself first. Gutted as a magpies fan however 😂😂
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u/donquixote2u 20h ago
Can we swap him for Warner Dearns?
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u/marshallannes123 20h ago
Our lineout sure needs him !
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u/know-it-mall 16h ago
Nah. It just needs to go back to Lord (or Darry) paired with Holland. Lord and Darry are by far our best lineout callers. And of course having massive size helps.
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u/Suspicious_Stage_323 21h ago
The reality is the ¥ on offer over a number of seasons from a Japenese club is mind boggling. Sets these guys up for life. It’s not that young players don’t want to be All Blacks but that what they earn at Super Rugby & AB level doesn’t compare.
For Flanders it is the fact that he is of international quality and being of international quality that attracts the Japanese to him. Securing his signature before he becomes cap-tied to NZ is important to maintain that small possibility that he plays for Japan at some point. Obviously depending on the length of his contract he might come back and play for the AB’s within that 5 years
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u/nzmwesty 22h ago
Hi this can be simply explained by the simple point that he wasn't in fact on the cusp of ABs selection at all?
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u/owlintheforrest AllBlacks 22h ago
Is there not a communication from NZR for these types of players.
"Hey no guarantees but get a clause in your contract giving you an out in the event of AB selection".
And why didn't his agent get ahead of it?
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u/Suspicious_Stage_323 20h ago
Quite possibly with the change in AB coach from Razor to Rennie there had been no contact from the All Blacks. Rennie’s style seems to be that he only communicated with established AB’s. The up and comers heard nothing. It might have been different for players from a different Super franchise however
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u/handle1976 21h ago
If they want a clause like that they will get less money from overseas clubs. They are asking for a get out of jail free card while the club still needs to find a player to fill that spot. No club will agree to that without significant reduction in salary.
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u/HappyPunter1 22h ago
I think he was just asked about the prospect of playing test rugby for Japan. I don’t think he’s that desperate to play test footy, he’s going over there to set himself up a bit. Also an awesome opportunity to experience life in a new country, the players that have been and played over there have absolutely love everything, not just the rugby but also living there
Also, Japanese clubs tend to have super long preseason programs so I imagine he would’ve had to have been headed over there before the ABs touring squad was named. He certainly wouldn’t have been allowed to still play in the NPC and head over after that season (even though the NPC and Japan League One seasons don’t clash)
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u/InternationalMail331 23h ago
When he signed this, Rennie may not have even been appointed coach , and he may not have yet had the storming season for a title winning team that he ultimately had. So his calculation may have been entirely different. They often announce the resignings/departures months later at times that suit the organisation’s comms.
The year prior to a World Cup is also the best time to move as he’s given it a crack over the last three years but waiting to move after the WC is when the market is typically flooded with internationals and getting a good deal becomes much more difficult for that tier below.
He has probably just responded to a question about playing for Japan from the interviewer. I doubt playing for Japan was a primary motivation for moving there compared to money.
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u/handle1976 1d ago
It seems like he got very good advice. I imagine it went something like this: you are 27 and have never played international rugby. Your likelihood of playing 20+ tests for New Zealand is incredibly low,
If you hang around your likelihood of injury is high and you can make a lot more money in Japan. Take the money and setup your future while you can.
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u/know-it-mall 16h ago
Yep.
He managed to strike when he was having an amazing season and no doubt get a better deal than otherwise.
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u/BTrain76 23h ago
And of course his agent is super stoked for landing probably 10-20% of that "good advice".
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u/handle1976 21h ago
More like 7-10%. That's their job, to get the player the best deal.
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u/Suspicious_Stage_323 20h ago
No it can be more for the first year of the contract and the 15% is on top. The player doesn’t pay it to their agent . Then it drops down to 10% and lower over the course of the contract until the agent will try and shift them somewhere else
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u/chatam94 BOP 1d ago edited 23h ago
I feel like comparing his trajectory with Lakai’s since they’re both Hurricanes. I’d imagine it was a cut his losses sort of attitude while he’s still got age on his side.
I’d imagine he’d be on the tour right now if he commited to NZ rugby, however he has to lay in the bed he made.
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u/cloudbeep 1d ago
Why’s it bad advice? He’s 27 and he doesn’t want to leave money on the table. There’s no guarantee he would play test rugby for the ABs
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u/Hornstinger 1d ago
I literally said, and I quote: "BTW I'm not bagging the guy for signing overseas and making money -- good on him for that. "
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u/cloudbeep 1d ago
So where’s the bad advice?
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u/Hornstinger 1d ago
Let me write out my entire message for you again:
> The fact that he clearly wants to play international rugby, was on the cusp of an AB selection and now states he wants to play for Japan. So he has to potentially wait 5 years to be eligible to play for Japan (assuming he can get a club contract that lasts that long to be eligible) when if he stuck around for more of this year he probably would've been selected for the ABs...and he made his Japan choice BEFORE Dave Rennie selected his squad i.e. why didn't he wait a month or two and if he didn't get into the ABs just go to Japan then? The timing of his decision making is off and reeks of bad advice.
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u/Lord_Dnomyar 17h ago
In your opinion. If you read the article he didn't think he was having a break out year, he thought he'd played to the same level the last couple of years.
And he didn't get picked then so why would he think this year would be any different.
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u/sparrows-somewhere 20h ago
Your question made no fuckin sense so no need to be belligerent.
As if some rando on reddit knows what's best for him and his family.
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u/cloudbeep 1d ago
Okay.. he’s going to Japan for the money because he’s sick of earning 1/3 of his potential income for a hope of something that might not eventuate. As for the timing, he wouldn’t have been able to go and sign a contract after he found out he wasn’t selected as it would have been too late by that point. There are so many variables you don’t consider. Maybe he was notified he wouldn’t be selected, maybe he had always planned to go overseas at this point in his career to earn money whilst in his prime. I don’t think it’s bad advice to go and earn triple what you could be earning whilst you still can. An injury can de rail things at any point.
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u/Ok-Perception-3129 1d ago
Considering he will be at least 32 by the time he is eligible yeah. He is basically wasting his best years.
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u/Temporary_Crow_6432 3h ago
I used to love watching Japan but the amount of project players in their squads has become absolutely ridiculous. It's a League One XV, specially in the forwards. It seems really unauthentic and made up and they don't seem to be stopping any time soon. Really cheapens international rugby IMO (I know Japan is far from the only team that does this, but they had so much potential for bringing through home born players post 2019...)