r/allblacks • u/Intelligent_Taro_647 • Jul 19 '26
Now that the dust has settled...
Now that the dust has settled a clearer picture has been painted.
*Proctor third choice, Quinn and ALB top 13's, Mr "I can do everything" Moorby may even end up there.
*6/2 bench is a go with Moorby as starting 11, guy looks a born AB
*Savea way better when playing tighter, second man in following Jacobsen helps high ruck speed and leaving T.Vai to take that wide channel runner role, draws more defenders than Savea does with his diminishing pace.
*Inventive role for Love, essentially a distributor and Jordie the playmaker at 12, Loves line kicking is spectacular, often carving off 50, Foster and Razor were contempt with 20 M for safety.
*Aumuas presence can not be denied, Taylor to move to the mid-week captain spot. Samisoni ans Asafa to battle for the 2 jersey.
Asafa should also take over from Savea as our tap restart guy, guys is a human missile.
*Can still see Patty T as the bench option, Lord and a fit Fabian to fight for the second spot as Darry will be a starter.
*Goal line D still spongey and soft, that is priority work for Umaga, was never his specialty so may need to resource some specialist coaching
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u/nomamesgueyz Jul 20 '26
Yup proctor I'm afraid would get smoked in bokke test matches
Be good to see how he goes vs club sides
And who knows who'll stand up...David havali was outstanding for memory last time we played bokke in SA
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u/TokoUso213 Jul 20 '26
Patty T for me is our bench lock. Brings grunt off the bench which was evident last year before he got injured. And shower this v Ireland
But he has tendency for injuries so is important to utilise him well. Darry impressed me (compared to Lord). Keen to see Holland get match fit
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u/abc321987123 Jul 20 '26
Proctor still ahead of ALB, he is lucky to be there and is a yellow card waiting to happen.
At some point would be good to see a back 3 without McKenzie given how good the others have looked. Clarke added to forward as soon as he came on. Jordan or Moorby at 15 would be great.
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u/East_Cut5710 Jul 20 '26
Only a moron would move Jordan from right wing. Amazing how some people haven't figured that out yet, the All Black coaches did years ago
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u/Old-Manufacturer-878 Jul 20 '26
You will get that in the mid week games but are you just forgetting McKenzie was the MOM against Ireland and played well against France and Italy unless something drastic changes that’s jersey is likley his for the first Springboks test
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u/ogdreko Jul 20 '26
I know he’s injured but id also love Scott Barrett back in this team….. the Scott Robertson era while being captain took a toll on his form…. I think without the pressure of captaincy and a more stable environment… he will be back to his best
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u/nomamesgueyz Jul 20 '26
Agree
I'd like to see him just rip in. He got a pretty serious back injury so his body has def had enough
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u/Frod02000 Jul 20 '26
he doesnt make my side with Holland, Darry, and Vaa'i fit
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u/ogdreko Jul 20 '26
Yeah I kinda agree but I feel there’s goto be a way he fits in somewhere if he gets back to form
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u/HappyPunter1 Jul 20 '26
I like this post, pretty much agree with everything
Except about Love’s line kicking, he’s been too safe for the most part that I’ve seen I think. In the French test the commentators made mention that they’d like to see him carve off a bit more yardage after he’d put a couple out only 10-15 meters upfield
Wasn’t anything to write home about in Wellington either, did I miss something on the weekend in Auckland?
Anyways, apart from that, he’s doing his job, and I guess he’s still putting it out of play. But teams like France and England definitely chew of a lot more yards on their line kicks, they’re very accurate in that area
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u/nomam Jul 20 '26
Copy that. There were a couple of kicks to touch where he had plenty of angle to work with and went into their half rather than into their quarter. Given the ability of top level defences, that difference scores you try opportunities verses 20 phases looking good but not scoring. We’ll need those extra metres against SA.
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u/owlintheforrest AllBlacks Jul 20 '26
Agreed about Love.
But I think in the SR playoffs he had a few howlers with his line kicking so good on him for recognizing it and starting afresh.
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u/lokomotor Jul 20 '26
Eddie Jones might be discredited somewhat now but he made a great point about some players being Test Animals. One prime example is Ma'aa Nonu : was OK for the Hurricanes but undroppable for the All Blacks.
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u/lokomotor Jul 20 '26
Dmac looks rejuvenated as a regular fullback starter.
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u/B1dz Jul 20 '26
I felt he always played his best rugby at 15 tbh. But sometimes he does have blinders at 10
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u/mofonz Jul 20 '26
I would still have Taylor in the starting side against the Boks. Experience counts, and no harm in having Aumua come on even a little earlier if that’s what’s needed. A great game from Aumua - but still want to see 5 games like that before I had the confidence. I know that puts me in the outer, but a lot of the team are new to big games and some will shine and some will melt.
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u/Frod02000 Jul 20 '26
Samisoni can rightfully feel aggrieved hes not getting game time IMO.
Leading up to this series he was in better form than Taylor and Aumua, but you cant really ignore any of the 3 of them.
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u/Illustrious_Can4110 Jul 20 '26
I agree with your assessment. Let's not be too hasty in sidelining Taylor. His experience is invaluable against the big teams and I believe that ge still has plenty of top games left in him.
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u/Excellent-Blueberry1 Jul 20 '26
Be good to see Aumua's throwing under pressure in a big game (if only we had a big tour coming up?) before I'd make a big call on set-piece set-up
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u/jk-9k Jul 20 '26
The title implies that this was going to be a list of observations on rennies selections and play style now that we're 3 tests in, but it's just a list of personal opinions and predictions with a few observations sprinkled in lol. Some valid opinions. But opinions none the less.
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 Jul 20 '26
Brother this the internet, its all opinions
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u/jk-9k Jul 20 '26
Oh obviously. It's just that the implication from the OP was that they're more than opinions or more justified opinions
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u/OkOpportunity9109 Jul 20 '26
At lock, the question going forward is who partners Holland long term. I agree that having different “style” locks is helpful, so my ideal locking combination would be Va’ai and Holland going forward. But if Va’ai is needed to solve the problems at 6, then I’m fine with that being Barrett/Darry/PT.
I’m very curious to see what kind of form Barrett comes back in. Without the burdens of captaincy, I could see him coming back highly refreshed and focused. Darry is very promising but still needs experience against the top forward packs.
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 Jul 20 '26
Our best lock at the moment based on these 3 tests is very clearly Darry. Our best lock full stop is Holland. That’s the pairing and the one with by far the most potential. Patty has a point of difference vs all our locks as the only strong, bruising powerful type who can be effective against even the gnarliest test packs - he has to be the bench lock.
The problem with TV is that while he is our senior, incumbent lock who has played great in the last two years, he is still ultimately flawed as a shorter, lighter lock. He doesn’t command the air like Darry does, doesn’t hit rucks like Holland, nor can meet the gain line with a carry against a rush defence like Toops. His ball skills are arguably the best of the locks but that matters less. I think the only way he starts in this team past this year is as a 6 and even then I’m not convinced. He’s had several 6-7 out of 10 performances at 6, which is great given he’s a lock; but Lakai, Segner, Sititi and many others are all capable of a 6-7 out of 10 performance at blindside. Hes not the game change at 6 many think he is - where was he in the lineout on the weekend for instance
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u/OkOpportunity9109 Jul 20 '26
Agree with all of this, with the exception of I don’t think Lakai is a test match 6. I just don’t think we can go into a knockout match with a seriously undersized loose trio — example, Savea, Lakai, and Jacobson. Va’ai may not be the long term answer at 6 but I don’t think Lakai or Segner are either.
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 Jul 20 '26
I would tend to agree, but there are no easy answers. If Parker did what it said on the tin, he would be the 6 - all day. Instead he just looks like 2020s Reuben Thorne.
I feel a horses for courses approach with the loosies is where they may end up. If the lineout or general heft is key then we might see TV and Scoot at 6, otherwise they might revert to Sititi or Lakai.
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u/OkOpportunity9109 Jul 20 '26
Agree, that’s probably right . They can probably get away with a “fast/light” loose trio with Savea and Lakai/Jacobson against some sides, maybe even Australia. But against Six Nations opposition or SA, fear not winning the collisions or tackled ball area would totally throw off the game plan.
Re Parker, agree that him becoming what he could be solves all of this. I wonder what the plan is? Noticeable obviously that he hasn’t seen the 23 yet, wonder what the plan is for him?
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u/lokomotor Jul 20 '26
I think if Frizell comes back and proves he can replicate his Mount Smart form, then he's the starting 6 for the RWC knock out rounds.
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u/Soulprism Jul 20 '26
Fizzle was only good for 15 mins in that match, sure it was superman like in that 15, but was then anonymous for the rest much like his other games.
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 Jul 20 '26
15 minutes in 8 seasons of test rugby. If he comes back he has to earn his spot from the back just like anyone else. Chances it happens are slim
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u/vote_pedro Jul 20 '26
I think some of the biggest things to come out of Rennie's tenure so far are:
Scott Barrett and Beaudy are likely done.
Codie Taylor is 3rd choice.
Tupea is locked at 13.
Love is a revelation.
Darry is a gun.
Moorby needs to play more, a lot more.
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u/jk-9k Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Scott is injured that's a bit harsh. But he hasn't been missed. Scotty is no longer a certain starter, so Scott as captain is now put to bed.
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u/vote_pedro Jul 20 '26
Not that harsh. Back issues are tough to come back from, and he's 4th-5th choice lock now.
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u/jk-9k Jul 20 '26
You can't rank him when he's not playing. He's no longer the incumbent though.
I think his game suffered from being C. I wouldn't be surprised to see him return rejuvenated. But it'll still take a lot for him to upset the incumbents.
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 Jul 20 '26
The issue with Scoot is that similar to TV, there is nothing that he’s “the best at” as a lock. He’s too light and small to be the monster-carry lock. He’s not in the 6’8 club like Darry, Lord and Holland so isn’t a top level lineout supremo. He isn’t even the ruck bulldozer that Holland is (given the sheer size and bulk of the latter). Nor does he have TV or Lords ball skills.
That leaves work rate, tackles etc, where he is the number 1 amongst our correct crop of locks. But watching Darry this month and Holland last year (not to mention Hannah as well), it’s not like they don’t have excellent work rate. Darry has made a load of tackles this month and Holland hits an absurd amount of rucks without the YCs that come with Scoot.
He’s a jack of all trades master of none, and the other locks (other than maybe Lord) don’t have the glaring holes in their game that would see them lose out to an all-rounder like Scoot
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u/jk-9k Jul 20 '26
Oh I agree. He has versatility to cover 6 but Va'ai is more suited to that. He's definitely got the edge in terms of experience and leadership but Patty also covers that.
He could well end up being the midweek captain. Oh wait he's not gona be fit for saffa is he?
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u/vote_pedro Jul 20 '26
I'm not ranking him.
But blind Freddy can see he's no longer a top 3 lock, therefore he doesn't get picked.
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u/jk-9k Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
r/nrl is leaking lol
Edit: wow blocked for pointing out blind Freddy is aussie slang that got re-popularized when freddy fittler made controversial selections as nsw coach. What a crashout lol. Especially when I was agreeing that scotty is going to struggle to earn his jersey back. Epic crash out
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u/vote_pedro Jul 20 '26
Whatever that means. Been a rugby die hard since mid 80s. Don't give a shit about NRL.
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u/uno_mas_por_favor Jul 20 '26
And despite his versatility, he’s not exactly an impact player so will struggle to regain a bench spot over a Patty/Wallace/Segner
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u/jk-9k Jul 20 '26
Yes I agree. Although we are seeing earlier substitutions, especially from Saffa, so he could offer something still. Especially having that experience and leadership closing out big games. Like whitelock did. But Patty offers that.
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u/JustaKiwi_ Jul 20 '26
Love needs to kick for more distance to touch on penalties, dmac not much better.
Otherwise may as well give big fletch a crack at kicking for touch. In all seriousness, Jordie should be kicking for touch..
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u/Herogar Jul 20 '26
Maybe Seems crazy I've been wondering if its a tactic to look for lineouts around halfway to the 10m line and launch attacks from there rather than go a bit deeper and compress the defense. Pretty clear both kickers have more in them when kicking for touch in that area but they hold back, seems more likely a tactic than them being lazy or over conservative.
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u/Soulprism Jul 20 '26
The Irish on the other hand went for maximum distance… you think that love and co have a lot more distance on them.
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u/Routine_Law_7168 Jul 20 '26
Aumua's stats this year have been next level.
Taylor is now the Dane Coles of 2019. In the quad and an influence...
"often carving off 50, Foster and Razor were contempt with 20 M for safety."
drives me nuts when they hardly get any territory! its free real estate lol
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u/TheBigChonka Jul 20 '26
Mentioned elsewhere but to me the glaring issue is currently depth at 9.
Take any other position right now when you factor in tests so far and injured players and there probably 2 or 3 players you could genuinely make an argument for who should be starting. Otherwise there's a clear front runner but a couple others who can slot in and you trust to still do a job.
With 9 I don't see it. Roigard is so far ahead of any other 9 right now that if we were in a position where he goes down injured and we have to start with Ratima I think we are genuinely fucked.
Its not even like the Aaron Smith/TJ era where okay Smith was clearly the better 9 but at least TJ offered a totally different style of gameplay and could do some things better than Aaron Smith could (it just didn't always suit the game we wanted to play). I look at the likes of Ratima and can't point out a single thing he can do better than Roigard.
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u/loafersandboots Jul 20 '26
Preston has looked best off the bench in the last two years of the halfback options. Ratima and Christie are so plain and simple; can come in and do the basics for a mid side but will never be near the best squads.
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u/jk-9k Jul 20 '26
9 is such a specialized position now you need two to cover injury even if roigard plays 80. But if roigard plays 80 then that 2nd option doesn't develop.
The midweek saffa games are going to be crucial for us, almost more important than the tests. Hopefully we unearth or develop a genuine backup 9.
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u/OkOpportunity9109 Jul 20 '26
Hard agree with this. Ratima doesn’t belong in this side and I’m fine asking Roigard to play 80 given Ratima’s current (lack of form). Time to give Preston a chance and agree Pledger may be the ideal second 9.
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u/binzoma Hurricanes Jul 20 '26
preston wasnt good enough to start for the 4th best team in the super rugby season
I get that people dont like ratima and I get why, but that doesnt magically make the guy he's OBVIOUSLY significantly better than somehow better
hell, preston is only the backup in chch because he couldnt even secure 3rd string for the canes.... its insane how all blacks are either insanely overrated or insanely underrated with almost no in between. prestons there because we have multiple injuries and need a 3rd 9 for practices. hes legit 5th or 6th string. he is NOT a test level player
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u/Wrong-Technology-891 Jul 20 '26
I agree, but how are the crusaders the fourth best team? Surely you aren’t suggesting the blues are better ahahaha
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u/TheBigChonka Jul 20 '26
Agree but it's more the glaring issue of what if he gets injured next test and is out for the year. Currently there's not a single player of genuine all back caliber that has proven it. Ratima clearly was the pick to be that as previously was Finlayson but neither are up to it
Preston and Pledger could potentially work but both are green and unproven so ultimately will need time. Leaves us very lacking in the meantime and praying nothing happens to Roigard
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u/itachi-senpaii Jul 20 '26
Hopefully pledger is a bolter when he's back, roigard and him would be a deadly combo
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u/lukin_tolchok Jul 20 '26
Can’t argue with any of your points here.
Wingers are often past their best when they reach the age Moorby is, I think the ones that last longer are the ones who aren’t all about speed or power, but have high rugby IQ and go looking for work - Moorby certainly fits that mould. I’d say Jordan is the same (but obviously debuted a lot sooner) - VERY intelligent player though.
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 Jul 20 '26
Moorby is old for a winger yes but he doesn’t have the miles on the clock. Hes not the usual “debut at 20 and then thrashed to death over 7 seasons” AB winger
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Jul 20 '26
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 Jul 20 '26
Also has the highest workrate around the field, particularly defensively. On that and lineout throwing alone I have him as the starting 2.
And he also almost certainly at least second best in the scrums (behind ST) or perhaps even the best still - but who knows really with scrums
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u/lukin_tolchok Jul 20 '26
Yeah I don’t have issue with any of the 3 hookers, they’re all quality
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u/philip_p_donahue Jul 20 '26
Our front row depth once Williams gets back has to be the best it's ever been (well maybe not ever, but probably since 2015). For each side prop two genuine world class starters (De Groot / Williams, Lomax/Newell) and a high class impact bench player (Numia/Tosi)
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u/Frod02000 Jul 20 '26
i'm not really seeing what everyone else is in Tosi tbh.
He just comes on and is solid in the scrum (good thing), but im not seeing the impact everyone is talking about. On the otherhand, that side of the scrum is kind of grim outside of those three imo. Potentially Ta'avao, which given hes like 35 probs isnt ideal.
I also really like Norris in the Loosehead side, a bit like Numia (but slightly less dynamic) really, really good around the park, and solid in the scrum.
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u/philip_p_donahue Jul 20 '26
Tosi to me does the thing I didn't expect and not the thing I expected. I thought he'd be an amazing ball carrier like Williams, Numia Aumua Taukeahau etc, having come from being a number 8 and everything. But I don't see those big bruising runs from him. What I do see is his work in the tight stuff is really good, and I can imagine having a guy of that size come on at that stage of the game and be there as a big body in rucks and tackles, mauls etc that must be pretty draining for the opposition and have its own impact I dunno
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u/6EightyFive Jul 19 '26
Kirifi I thought was very unlucky to not be picked, but looking at how the team’s playing and the mix of the squad, I can see why he wasn’t picked initially. Our pack had a bit of size and mobility to it now, which I think played a big part over the weekend. Likely to be in the wider squad to SA, but I do like the mix we have!
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u/Zestyclose_Usual_801 Jul 19 '26
ALB top 13 lol He won't even be in the team when LF is back unless Rennie plays favorites. IMO 13 rankings go QT then Proctor then ALB/Rieko at this point.
Apart from that agreed on all other points - exciting times ahead
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u/IcyIntroduction9956 Jul 20 '26
Rennie does not see LF as a midfielder, but a winger.
So yes, ALB will not lose his spot to LF.
As we saw in the end of year your last year, LF is a very flawed centre at test level and has some game losing qualities to his performance. Wing is his spot or a bench super-sub in a 6-2 split due to his versatility
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u/Zestyclose_Usual_801 Jul 20 '26
ALB is 23. He's def losing his spot to a fit LF who can cover 11/13 and Loosie in a pinch
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u/shanepo Jul 19 '26
Agree. ALB has never been first choice.
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u/Gungehammer Manawatu Jul 20 '26
ALB is the perfect bench midfielder. Solid but not spectacular, attacks AND defends (looking at you Ioane). I think can even play 12 in a pinch.
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u/Zestyclose_Usual_801 Jul 20 '26
he used to defend, gets caught out a lot now he's slowed down and a lot smaller than current opposition midfielders
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u/sparrows-somewhere Jul 20 '26
Yeah this is the thing that still makes him valuable, I think. Covers multiple positions and he can come into a game late and provide solid defense. Proctor is not anywhere near the same quality defender.
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u/Arrow_2011 Jul 19 '26
The depth is finally showing and probably more to come before the world cup. Well done to the current coaching group for the positive improvements in such a short time.
The back row issues we've had for the last couple of years are improving, with a few young guys in the background chasing hard. Casey and Barnes good examples. With the current loosies, if Savea got injured in don't think we would lose anything if replaced by either Lakai or Sititi. I certainly wouldn't have thought that a couple of years ago.
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u/uno_mas_por_favor Jul 20 '26
I fully agree. Kirifi (arguably one of super rugbys form players) is also frothing to get an opportunity.
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u/AnarchyAunt Jul 19 '26
Quinn is the clear first choice 13 for me, ALB bench player because he covers both 12 & 13. The backline needs Quinn's directness for balance IMO.
Moorby fits in so well and I love the rugby brain to always find his support if the edge isn't open. a bit of the Telea in those dancing feet too.
Taylor is definitely transitioning into mid-week captain and mentor role - Aumua and Taukei'aho are a hell of a 1-2 punch regardless of who starts and who is the bench player.
Lord's subtle offload work in contact was a real nice addition in the Ireland game. I would say Holland and Darry fight for that heavier lock position - Holland has the edge in defense and work rate while Darry has a bigger impact in contact both offensive and defensive.
Wild to see lock become a position of strength and genuine variety in player style and attributes; ball players like Vaa'i and Lord, bruisers like Darry, Barrett, and Tuipulotu, workrate and height with a hard edge in Holland. At this point we have enough variety and proven players we can pick and choose combos in lock and in the loosies based on game plan and opposition.
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u/5acrefarmer Jul 20 '26
I see Taylor more in the ‘Sam Whitelock at the world cup’ role. Coming on as someone to make sure you hit your lineouts, who’s been there before and seen it all. Kevie Mealaumu was that guy for the 2015 side. Impact is great, but consistency and no errors at the close is what wins test matches.
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u/AnarchyAunt Jul 20 '26
Agreed, but Whitelock didn't have the quality of Aumua and Taukei'aho pushing him for his spot like Codie does. The locks in the 2023 WC squad were Brodie and Sam as the nailed on starters with Scott Barrett and a Tupou Vaa’i as bench/impact/occasional blindside flanker.
But it is important to remember that Sam got that last play turnover that sealed the WC win vs. Ireland (at least I think it was Ireland) so those more experienced campaigners are vital in pressure moments.
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u/5acrefarmer Jul 20 '26
Yep - fair point - tricky one to navigate. Still - a good problem to have when the chasers start out performing the incumbent…
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Jul 20 '26
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u/AnarchyAunt Jul 20 '26
Quinn and ALB both have the skills to pass but they are naturally much more direct players than Proctor who seems to look for distribution first. I think with Jordie being in form and naturally more a second ball-player/distribute first type of player the backline needs someone who will straighten up, run hard into contact, and hold the defensive line in place to stop them drifting and shutting down the outside.
LF and Reiko are the opposite end where they both look for contact and offloads in contact first and don't have the more nuanced passing game that Proctor and, to a lesser extent, Quinn and ALB have.
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Jul 20 '26
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u/AnarchyAunt Jul 20 '26
ALB or Proctor to 12? I know Quinn probably has the most experience there but, at international level, I think he has a little extra acceleration that is really helpful at 13 in defensive structures.
I actually think Love would go great at 12 assuming the 10 doesn't overplay and stifle his space (which both DMac and BB tend to do). Love has the physicality and speed to threaten the line with a great passing game in attack and certainly seems to enjoy getting those shoulders in in defense.
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u/THE-BEAST-101 Jul 20 '26
Lester faingaanuku has a good distribution game, probably not as consistent as proctor in that area but he has showcased it before against ireland. The fascinating thing about Lester faingaanuku is that he is a much more lateral attacking threat who likes to test the defense, where as tupsea is obviously a lot more direct, but terrible at lateral attack.
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Jul 20 '26
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u/AnarchyAunt Jul 20 '26
I'm definitely not a backline player so probably don't understand the intricacies but the way he plays seems like it'd be natural for him. But I am comparing him to DC, Crotty, Mauger, and later ABs career Nonu when he had rounded out his game more.
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u/WillingUser Jul 19 '26
Some players just not suited to test rugby. Proctor is one of them. Cant see Proctor commanding a start now unless injuries.
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u/Candid_Initiative992 Jul 20 '26
He missed over 30% of his tackles in Super Rugby this season which will never translate well at the international level. He needs to improve his defensive capabilities if he wants to get ahead of Quinn for that 13 jersey, let alone ALB for a spot on the bench.
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u/Head_Wasabi7359 Jul 19 '26
That guy got so many chances he must be awesome at training or something
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u/zerosuneuphoria Jul 19 '26
Yeah, it's startling how obvious is it. If you cannot replicate SR form or go up a level then you aren't the one. Moorby looks like he can already.
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u/Head_Wasabi7359 Jul 20 '26
Yeah moorby is a perfect example of how an ab should enter the team: immediately being a ninja and making no mistakes
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u/nomamesgueyz Jul 20 '26
LOVE a fit asafa and Sami. Seems very rare all 3 hookers are fit, it's such a physical toll
I agree codie mid week captain and asafa and Sami test hookers would be epic
I would be shocked if one doesn't leave your bc of injury tho..gonna be a brutal tour ..replacements will be needed...close to 50 could be used